Post-Game Talk: WCSF GM7 | Canucks lose to Oilers | 2-3 (Garland & Hronek) | Season Over

[PG Canuck]

Playing to not lose is such a bitch mentality. Definitely one thing that has pissed me off all playoffs.

 

[WTG]

I think the big frustration was that they were right there, game 7, two goals away from the conference final.

But as @Sergei Shirokov said, this should be taken as an incredibly successful season. Getting playoff experience on the core was the goal of this season. I have full confidence that Pettersson is going to bounce back, and I am really excited and hopeful of the widow that has opened for the team.

Let's hope Boeser gets healthy because he was the biggest surprise for me in the playoffs. He elevated his game to a play driver at some point and the idea of seeing him regress from the injury would be incredibly sad.

 

[Nucker101]

Playing to not lose is such a bitch mentality. Definitely one thing that has pissed me off all playoffs.

Yeah, I feel like Tocchet neutered this team a bit, maybe it was due to Demko going down but either way, I wasn't a fan of the Travis Green strat

 

[EpochLink]

I mean...i have lots of friends who cheer for lots of different teams than i do. I feel like that's just a normal part of life, and sports, and getting along as a human being. But maybe i'm wrong.

Are we only allowed to associate with fellow Canucks fans? That seems a bit parochial and uh...limiting.


What if your soulmate is like a Maple Leaves or Habitants fan? They can be irritating...but that's a lot of people to cross off your list of potential people to associate with.


tbh...i probably know more serious, dedicated, hardcore Canucks fans who live in Alberta than i do in BC. It's just such a weird thing to draw a line on...because map says so.


I mean, it sucks that you had a real bad time in Alberta. It can be a very stupid place. But so can BC. And really none of it has anything to do with the Canucks.

That place can kick rocks, also "Alberta Memes" on Facebook is the worst of the worst.
The shit they can get away on that page is mind boggling.

 

[biturbo19]

That’s why I hope management look to address our weakness vs keeping status quo.
Allvin and JR talked about wanting a tougher and faster team, I really expect them to cut a bunch of players and get more guys who can play that speed game.

It's one of those things that's easy to say...harder to do. But yeah. Bigger, faster team is better. That's kind of a dominating theme in hockey, or really any contact sport. Big people beat up small people. Fast people move quicker than slow people. The trick is really just making that work within the salary cap. Hard decisions will have to be made.

 

[EpochLink]

Yeah, I feel like Tocchet neutered this team a bit, maybe it was due to Demko going down but either way, I wasn't a fan of the Travis Green strat

Tocchet is head and shoulders above Green, sorta sucks Demko got injured but what can you do

 

[biturbo19]

That place can kick rocks, also "Alberta Memes" on Facebook is the worst of the worst.
The shit they can get away on that page is mind boggling.

Why are you even on anything on facebook? lmao.


That is universally the worst of the worst of any population.

 

[Nucker101]

Tocchet is head and shoulders above Green, sorta sucks Demko got injured but what can you do

I agree that he is, it was more of a comment on his passive playoff strategy against the Oilers.

It's one of those things that's easy to say...harder to do. But yeah. Bigger, faster team is better. That's kind of a dominating theme in hockey, or really any contact sport. Big people beat up small people. Fast people move quicker than slow people. The trick is really just making that work within the salary cap. Hard decisions will have to be made.

This. Technically Ilya Mikheyev was a bigger/faster move lol

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Cut mik right now

Moron

They really did him dirty with how they handled his knee injury last season.

Skating is his bread and butter and they basically risked his entire career letting him play through that shit for over ½ a season.

They really need to keep revamping the health staff. Its not good enough.

We know Ian Clarke is elite, I think the obvious answer is they got some bad advice from their health folks on Demko's work load / injury timeline. Do they even track recovery and load with something like Catapult | Sports Technology | Unleash Potential to prevent injuries?

 

[DFAC]

Did the fatigue set in at the All-Star break?

The fatigue probably stops the forecheck, but the default is to turtle because they've become comfortable doing it. Tocchet is comfortable with them sitting back and getting sub20 shots a game. It's a part of his formula to win: Low Event Hockey. If he instead incentivizes the opposite, the opposite would occur, even while fatigued.

As to being outmatched, maybe. The Canucks swept the season series and had 2 games to oust the Oilers, yet failed. I don't think there's a compelling case to be made there.

Team looked scared to press & push when Demko went down which carried into the playoffs.

They just didnt have the same confidence without knowing Demko could bail them out if needed.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Our PP lost its mojo at some point and never got it back. Probably mostly due to Petey losing his mojo. Too bad cause we really should have a lethal PP and that would have made the difference.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Playing to not lose is such a bitch mentality. Definitely one thing that has pissed me off all playoffs.

Looked to me like they didn't have much in the tank.

Zadorov, Hughes, Miller, EP (for a long while), Hronek, Joshua... Nobody looked their effective selves anymore.

 

[WTG]

Yeah, I feel like Tocchet neutered this team a bit, maybe it was due to Demko going down but either way, I wasn't a fan of the Travis Green strat

This is the furthest that Tocchet has coached a team in the playoffs as well. I think that's something to take into account.

The result sucks, could they have done more? Sure. Were the Canucks going to ever win the cup this year? No way.

Experience is what this core needed and that's what they got, including the coach.

 

[EpochLink]

Why are you even on anything on facebook? lmao.


That is universally the worst of the worst of any population.

I have family in the Philippines I keep up with, I got a huge family.

 

[VanJack]

From game one, you had to constantly ask yourself: 'what are the odds a rookie goaltender with nine games of NHL experience could possibly backstop the Canucks all the way to the Cup finals?.

I guess in life these anomalies do happen.....but rarely in the Stanley Cup playoffs. The Canucks run was doomed to end...it was just a question of 'how soon'.

This team went about as far as it could go......with a lineup that's still sprinkled with journeyman NHL players. And in the end the difference wasn't Silovs, but the obvious holes in the lineup.

But I have faith in Rutherford and Allvin.......they'll eventually put all the right pieces together.

 

[biturbo19]

I agree that he is, it was more of a comment on his passive playoff strategy against the Oilers.


This. Technically Ilya Mikheyev was a bigger/faster move lol

Yeah. That's a brilliant example of the "cost" of getting Bigger+Faster. That's precisely why they paid the premium for Mikheyev. He's a bigger guy who was very fast...even hobbled post-injury, he's probably still our fastest forward.


But that's the market...where every other team is also looking for bigger and faster players who don't completely suck. Same thing in the draft where those guys get "overdrafted" all the time many times a year every year. It's how Virtanens happen. They bust a lot...but when you hit on one, they're worth more than their weight in gold because they're insanely hard to acquire in any other way.

I have family in the Philippines I keep up with, I got a huge family.

Are they on the Alberta group? I don't understand how you'd end up there if it makes you so mad. I don't even know what it is. But it sounds dumb and facebook in general just seems like ads and annoying stuff the last time i logged in, whenever that was.

 

[EpochLink]

Are they on the Alberta group? I don't understand how you'd end up there if it makes you so mad. I don't even know what it is. But it sounds dumb and facebook in general just seems like ads and annoying stuff the last time i logged in, whenever that was.

hell no, they in the Phils.

 

[arttk]

It's one of those things that's easy to say...harder to do. But yeah. Bigger, faster team is better. That's kind of a dominating theme in hockey, or really any contact sport. Big people beat up small people. Fast people move quicker than slow people. The trick is really just making that work within the salary cap. Hard decisions will have to be made.

yeah we’ll see, FA season will start in a month, we’ll see what they do.
PA had been good at identifying guys for cheap and filling holes. Hopeful that he can make the team faster and stronger. I mean he somehow did make the D a lot tougher even though he might not be able to retain that.

 

[DFAC]

From game one, you had to constantly ask yourself: 'what are the odds a rookie goaltender with nine games of NHL experience could possibly backstop the Canucks all the way to the Cup finals?.

I guess in life these anomalies do happen.....but rarely in the Stanley Cup playoffs. The Canucks run was doomed to end...it was just a question of 'how soon'.

This team went about as far as it could go......with a lineup that's still sprinkled with journeyman NHL players. And in the end the difference wasn't Silovs, but the obvious holes in the lineup.

But I have faith in Rutherford and Allvin.......they'll eventually put all the right pieces together.

I would argue that we lose because our stars weren't our best players. Guys like Hughes, Pettersson and Hronek were not good this series and even Miller/Lindholm were pretty invisible in game 6 and 7.

Can't win if your best players aren't your best players.

 

[arttk]

I agree that he is, it was more of a comment on his passive playoff strategy against the Oilers.


This. Technically Ilya Mikheyev was a bigger/faster move lol

I mean we didn’t sign the torn ACL version of Mik. But man those stone hands…. How the f*** did he even put up 20 goals before.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I don't think Tocchet is purely about "low event" hockey. It's just...very heavily dependent on structure creating counter-attack opportunities. Which was working just fine against the Oilers early in the series.

Problem is...By Game 6 the Oilers adjusted and shifted more toward what the Preds were doing to stymie everything. They started making far less risky breakouts. Putting pucks deep and forechecking more aggressively to create offense that way. Clogging up the neutral zone defensively which just exposes the lack of speed that the Canucks have up front. When they can't move the puck East-West to "climb the ladder"...it's glaringly obvious that they're a very very slow team up front especially. And they don't have the personnel or system to flip that and stretch the neutral zone North-South.


Part of it is definitely on RikTok. But part of it is just...you can only work with the tools you've got. And they simply did not give him the horses to run wild and take the neutral zone by themselves. They need more speed up front. They need more size up front. They need more puck-moving ability on the back end to be able to pivot and play the game in a different way. Tocchet simply didn't have the right tools available to him even if he did make the right adjustments. He didn't...but it's a bit of a "chicken or the egg" question. If you don't have the players to execute a change...why would you bother?

Tocchet had the horses to sweep the season series and have 2 chances to eliminate EDM...?

They dominated Game 5. Dominated it. They attacked the Oilers' DCorps for the back 50 min of that game and it was the most lopsided win of the series. They did this with 'horses that got them there'. What changed? IMO, it's the mentality this team has while under duress: They turtle. And while the average coach may accept this turtling for a time, as with the ebb and flow of the game, this one accepts it as a mode. Unacceptable.

When Tocchet put 2 dmen out on the PP, is that not risk averse? The players know what the coach favours most. What is non-negotiable. Offense is optional.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

From game one, you had to constantly ask yourself: 'what are the odds a rookie goaltender with nine games of NHL experience could possibly backstop the Canucks all the way to the Cup finals?.

Honestly?

Probably higher than a starter that has been overworked that season.

I guess in life these anomalies do happen.....but rarely in the Stanley Cup playoffs. The Canucks run was doomed to end...it was just a question of 'how soon'.

This team went about as far as it could go......with a lineup that's still sprinkled with journeyman NHL players. And in the end the difference wasn't Silovs, but the obvious holes in the lineup.

But I have faith in Rutherford and Allvin.......they'll eventually put all the right pieces together.

 

[krutovsdonut]

so my take is that the team ran out of gas / wore down more than the oilers bore down. apart from garland and lindholm it seemed like every top player was playing hurt and they could no longer consistently play their game plan until the oilers started to defend. even then they came a lot closer than i expected to taking that game to ot.

i'll wait for all the injury reports, but if they are what i think they are, i am pretty happy with that run. pettersson is really my only concern of a player who over disappeared, although hughes can hopefully work on some stuff.

i have zero criticisms of tochett right now. my view is that he responded to reality, and reality was that the team pushed less as the oilers series dragged on not by choice but because individual players could not bring it. i don't think that team was mentally prepared for the grind, and i think nashville was an absolutely brutal first round opponent that taught the team a ton, and also ground them down . maybe a little inexperience with the canucks with not knowing how to efficiently deal with nashville but most likely it was just unavoidable.

anyway, some of that sounds like excuses, but those are not really required. i think it is more explanations. i look forward to next season and what they can do to build on this.

 

[EpochLink]

so my take is that the team ran out of gas / wore down more than the oilers bore down. apart from garland and lindholm it seemed like every top player was playing hurt and they could no longer consistently play their game plan until the oilers started to defend. even then they came a lot closer than i expected to taking that game to ot.

i'll wait for all the injury reports, but if they are what i think they are, i am pretty happy with that run. pettersson is really my only concern of a player who over disappeared, although hughes can hopefully work on some stuff.

i have zero criticisms of tochett right now. my view is that he responded to reality, and reality was that the team pushed less as the oilers series dragged on not by choice but because individual players could not bring it. i don't think that team was mentally prepared for the grind, and i think nashville was an absolutely brutal first round opponent that taught the team a ton, and also ground them down . maybe a little inexperience with the canucks with not knowing how to efficiently deal with nashville but most likely it was just unavoidable.

anyway, some of that sounds like excuses, but those are not really required. i think it is more explanations. i look forward to next season and what they can do to build on this.

They had a really good year, can't really be upset about it.
Didn't expect to win the division, we did. Didn't expect to make the playoffs, we did.
We probably have the Jack Adams winning coach and the Norris Trophy winning defensemen this year. Rode the horses we rode on, unfortunately it came up short in a game 7 in the second round.

This year made up for the bubble run, this one had more fortitude in it.
Also, the legend of playoff Bo Horvat was unfortunately a bust, guy is cashing in checks while playing for a team that has no identity.

 

[biturbo19]

Tocchet had the horses to sweep the season series and have 2 chances to eliminate EDM...?

They dominated Game 5. Dominated it. They attacked the Oilers' DCorps for the back 50 min of that game and it was the most lopsided win of the series. They did this with 'horses that got them there'. What changed? IMO, it's the mentality this team has while under duress: They turtle. And while the average coach may accept this turtling for a time, as with the ebb and flow of the game, this one accepts it as a mode. Unacceptable.

When Tocchet put 2 dmen out on the PP, is that not risk averse? The players know what the coach favours most. What is non-negotiable. Offense is optional.

I don't think that's a completely accurate transcription of events.


I really think Tocchet has to answer for the complete nothing effort the team sent in Game 6. That was just...unacceptable. He absolutely had the pieces to just go balls to the wall and put them away at that moment. But he came out with the same routine and they got absolutely caved in by the way the Oilers adjusted and he just did not have an answer. It should've been a game where they just flew out of the gates and buried them. But it wasn't.


And from there...what changed is...by the 2nd period of Game6...the Oilers had completely adjusted to play a very different style of game. And i really just don't think the Canucks had the players to answer. They dragged it into the same sort of mess as the Preds. Not as well. But the key difference is...Canucks came out ahead in the Preds series because when you play that tight margin game, the high-end talent is going to be the difference. Canucks > Preds in that regard. But when a team like the Oilers drags you back into that same muck...they simply have better high end talent and especially when our own best talent decided to take a vacation or something.

yeah we’ll see, FA season will start in a month, we’ll see what they do.
PA had been good at identifying guys for cheap and filling holes. Hopeful that he can make the team faster and stronger. I mean he somehow did make the D a lot tougher even though he might not be able to retain that.

Yeah. They've been good at finding bargains and they've also shown they're far from shy of the trade market. They'll make big moves when they're needed. I still have faith that they'll make some big moves and probably ones that nobody sees coming, to recalibrate this team.

hell no, they in the Phils.

So then why in the heck are you on an Alberta Meme facebook thing? I don't get it.