WCH - Impressions of the Tournament

[KarIgo87]

I definitely have three in mind - Yakushev79, Atlas200, and Zine (or something like that, don't remember the nicknames exactly) who don't really take this tournament seriously at all, perhaps some more posters. Of course, that was just me talking about this forum, and I realize it sounds lke generalization a bit, sorry about that.

That is great to hear I always knew that the incredibly ridiculous claims as "no one cares in Europe" were just that - ridiculous nonsense. I have always believed there's many fans who certainly like and will watch the tournament and I'm glad that your post is indicating something completely opposite than what some posters have been pushing here.

Well, I don't think anyone should argue about anything hockey related with Atas2000, it's useless. I don't know what Yakushev79's and Zine's arguments are but I can guess. They probably say that World Cup isn't the same as Olympics and it can't replace them. If this is the case then I agree with them. It's not and it can't. It's almost summer hockey, players won't be at their best shape and they'll try to avoid injuries. Also victory in it obviously means less than Olympic Gold. If NHL's planning to forbid their players to go to the Olympics and this World Cup is just some substitute then I'm strongly against this idea. But other than that I can't understand how any true hockey fan can not be excited about such event. Instead of watching best-on-best international tournament once in 4 years we'll be able to watch it once in 2 years! How can you not like that?!

As to your team, I can't wait to see Ovechkin and Malkin and others on NHL ice maybe it could be a positive for them, since they play 82-100 games there every year and are probably more used to it. Can't wait to see that offence, even though I will be a fan of Team North America

I'll be rooting for Team North America as well (except game with Russia obviously), so much talent.

Finally. Canadas most worthy enemy, Russia has come alive. Come on Russian Bear, Suomi is about to pass you as Canadas hockey equal . A hockey tournament featuring the best players in the world and on Canadian soil? It has to be Canada v Russia. Let's battle.

In all seriousness, I think Russia finishes #1 in their group. Ovechkin will prove in group play why he deserves to force the historical record to reflect our current NHL era as the Crosby/Ovechkin era. I anticipate Russia going 3-0 in group play and facing Canada for the Cup.

I've got Russia over the NA Young Guns. Russian fans will come away saying McDavid is the best player in the world, but I don't think he has enough to lead us (NA) to victory over Russia. Sweden is better on paper, but I think Ovechkin and the boys will beat them and the Finns.

Russia cannot let the Finns overtake them as our equal right now. I'm deep down cheering for Russia in group play. I want to battle Russia for Gold/The Cup. No other nation I want to battle for hockey supremacy. I'm glad to see the Russian people are excited about this tournament. Your people treated the Canadian boys well in St. Petersburg (apparently Hall, Marchand, and the boys had a very good time enjoying the night life in your gorgeous city).

Bring your best Russia. You are our enemy, but also the hockey nation we respect the most. Your people treated Canada kindly during the 2016 WHC and Putin was graceful to our nation. Respect.

Let's celebrate hockey together and settle our differences on the ice. Good luck Russia. See you for the Cup . No matter who wins, we show respect to each other as equals.

Well, I don't consider Canada our enemy, really, but I agree that Final Russia-Canada is the best thing that can happen in hockey. It's the greatest rivalry in hockey and it will always be.
Suomi squad is really strong and exciting though, and lately they are a team to beat for us. It'll be tough. Sweden's defense is terrifying, almost as terrifying as Canadian one, but overall I think their NT is too soft when it matters. I don't want to offend our northern neighbors but I think it has something to do with their government policy and lifestyle. It's too PC and feminine for hockey It's good for life though.

 

[KarIgo87]

That is interesting to hear, since European fans have been quite consistent in their claims that the tournament is not highly regarded in Europe. Interested to see if any other fans from Russia verify this.

What do you mean by "not highly regarded in Europe"? Examples, please. Of course if you compare it to Olympics hockey it won't be the same interest. When it's Olympics a lot of casual people watch hockey games, people who watch hockey once a year at best and know only Ovechkin and maybe Malkin. When it's World Cup this is mostly for true hockey fans, not for some people who root only for their national flag at big sports events or people who are interested only in their local teams. And don't forget time zone differences, only true hockey European fans will be watching games at night. I'd say in Russia it's the same interest as NHL playoffs. Maybe even higher since it's national team playing.

 

[jj cale]

Two things:

1. Goaltending equipment back to the size of what 70s goaltenders wore. Dryden was 6'4" and did fine with it. Keep the light stuff but go back to that size to give shooters a chance at actually scoring a goal on a great shot.

2. 60 minutes of 4 on 4. There is not enough space for the creative players to be creative - defensive systems stifle everything. 60 minutes of 4 on 4 will open things up and bring back creativity. No, Olympic sized ice will not help - space farther away from the goal does nothing - as we witnessed in the 2014 Olympic gold medal game.

I like 2# clearly more space has been needed for some time.

1# I like also as long as it is done in conjunction with 2#, if more ice space is not provided then I doubt smaller goalie equipment will have any effect at all. The goalies have better technique and the defensive systems are now too refined for it to do much good without added real estate.

 

[JackSlater]

What do you mean by "not highly regarded in Europe"? Examples, please.

I'm not going through pages of old threads to find posts for you. Anyone who has posted in this forum for a decent amount of time has seen the posts. You can look at old threads in this forum if you want and see the posts from most European fans. The majority claim that the Canada/World Cup tournaments weren't that big and aren't regarded that highly. If you are right, I'm hoping that other European posters will shed light on the matter.

 

[KarIgo87]

I'm not going through pages of old threads to find posts for you. Anyone who has posted in this forum for a decent amount of time has seen the posts. You can look at old threads in this forum if you want and see the posts from most European fans. The majority claim that the Canada/World Cup tournaments weren't that big and aren't regarded that highly. If you are right, I'm hoping that other European posters will shed light on the matter.

Well, let's wait those other European posters.
"Canada/World Cup tournaments weren't that big and aren't regarded that highly". Sure, if you compare it to Olympics. I won't say for other European countries but in Russia most hockey fans don't follow NHL, they support their local teams, watch WC once a year and OG once in 4 years. That's it. Maybe some of them watch NHL highlights sometimes, follow results in news and watch a couple earlier games with teams who have Russian players. The reason is that there's usually no NHL on free TV and even when there is it's deep into the night. Therefore these people don't follow NHL-organised tournaments and even some of them I'm sure will follow this time. But there is a small group who follow NHL closely, watch it live almost every night or at least next day in recorded broadcasts. I can guarantee you 100% all of them are gonna watch World Cup.

 

[JackSlater]

Well, let's wait those other European posters.
"Canada/World Cup tournaments weren't that big and aren't regarded that highly". Sure, if you compare it to Olympics. I won't say for other European countries but in Russia most hockey fans don't follow NHL, they support their local teams, watch WC once a year and OG once in 4 years. That's it. Maybe some of them watch NHL highlights sometimes, follow results in news and watch a couple earlier games with teams who have Russian players. The reason is that there's usually no NHL on free TV and even when there is it's deep into the night. Therefore these people don't follow NHL-organised tournaments and even some of them I'm sure will follow this time. But there is a small group who follow NHL closely, watch it live almost every night or at least next day in recorded broadcasts. I can guarantee you 100% all of them are gonna watch World Cup.

Yes, you're not saying anything new. Many of those posters said the same thing (other factors mentioned as well) but you are describing a "small group". If the tournament is mostly watched by just a small group, in a huge country like Russia, then I wouldn't call the tournament highly regarded or overly popular in that country. The reasons why are well known, as you laid out.

 

[KarIgo87]

Yes, you're not saying anything new. Many of those posters said the same thing (other factors mentioned as well) but you are describing a "small group". If the tournament is mostly watched by just a small group, in a huge country like Russia, then I wouldn't call the tournament highly regarded or overly popular in that country. The reasons why are well known, as you laid out.

Well, with development of internet in Russia this small group is getting bigger. Also this year 10 games a weak will be broadcasted on Eurosport channel which most of people in Russia have on their TV. But it's still considerably small.
When I said that "hockey fans here are excited and looking forward to it" of course I meant the ones who follow NHL. I thought it was implied. If someone thought that NHL-organised tournament would have the same interest as Olympics hockey then this someone is a fool. But I also said that "100% of those people in Russia who follow NHL are gonna watch World Cup". I think people bashing World Cup here also follow NHL but they somehow are not interested in WCH. That's why I was surprised. I still think it's because you're spoiled by all of this high quality hockey.

 

[JackSlater]

Well, with development of internet in Russia this small group is getting bigger. Also this year 10 games a weak will be broadcasted on Eurosport channel which most of people in Russia have on their TV. But it's still considerably small.
When I said that "hockey fans here are excited and looking forward to it" of course I meant the ones who follow NHL. I thought it was implied. If someone thought that NHL-organised tournament would have the same interest as Olympics hockey then this someone is a fool. But I also said that "100% of those people in Russia who follow NHL are gonna watch World Cup". I think people bashing World Cup here also follow NHL but they somehow are not interested in WCH. That's why I was surprised. I still think it's because you're spoiled by all of this high quality hockey.

We don't disagree then, and it's good that the internet opens up more access to these things. I was surprised because I inferred that you were saying that the tournament was a big deal to the average Russian or just the average Russian sports fan, which didn't match what others had said. That the relatively hardcore fans who follow NHL hockey will watch this tournament matches what others have said. I don't think that this makes the tournament a particularly big success in Russia though.

 

[KarIgo87]

We don't disagree then, and it's good that the internet opens up more access to these things. I was surprised because I inferred that you were saying that the tournament was a big deal to the average Russian or just the average Russian sports fan, which didn't match what others had said. That the relatively hardcore fans who follow NHL hockey will watch this tournament matches what others have said. I don't think that this makes the tournament a particularly big success in Russia though.

Well, it can't be big success when games are played at 3:00 AM. What I don't get is why every other NHL fan in Russia is gonna watch it but seems like 50% of NA fans at best are interested in it. You're not true hockey fan in my book if you're not interested in best-on-best hockey whichever format it would be.

 

[FiLe]

You're not true hockey fan in my book if you're not interested in best-on-best hockey whichever format it would be.

There is no different "formats" to best-on-best hockey. It either is, or it isn't.

This thing isn't. It's high level hockey, presumably (and I don't fault anyone who wishes to watch it because of that), but best-on-best it isn't, since it doesn't conform to the same criteria *all* the other best-on-best tournaments have followed.

 

[snipes]

"Summit of the Elite"

This is the best reflection of what this tournament is that I could come up with.

The best players are playing in a 8 team tournament. However, non-national teams take away the best-on-best international label. Strict interpretation applied.

What if we called it a Summit of the Elite? Or something else I don't know? The best of the very best will be competing in an 8 team tournament for the World Cup. It needs to be remembered as the most talented players in the world assembled at a single hockey event in its own category.

 

[JackSlater]

Well, it can't be big success when games are played at 3:00 AM. What I don't get is why every other NHL fan in Russia is gonna watch it but seems like 50% of NA fans at best are interested in it. You're not true hockey fan in my book if you're not interested in best-on-best hockey whichever format it would be.

Yes I understand why it won't be a big success there. In an ideal world the tournament would actually take place in Europe 50% of the time, which I believe would go a long way toward growing popularity there. Perhaps in the future this will happen. In Canada this tournament will have plenty of viewers, I assume. Any high level hockey will get decent viewership in Canada. It's going to struggle a lot in the United States though most likely. International hockey outside of the Olympics doesn't get a big audience in the United States, and as the NFL season is kicking off the sports networks will be busy talking about football. Hardcore fans will watch, as you suggest about those in Russia.

There is no different "formats" to best-on-best hockey. It either is, or it isn't.

This thing isn't. It's high level hockey, presumably (and I don't fault anyone who wishes to watch it because of that), but best-on-best it isn't, since it doesn't conform to the same criteria *all* the other best-on-best tournaments have followed.

Yes. The players are certainly the calibre of best on best. The structure is what prevents it from being an actual best on best though.

"Summit of the Elite"

This is the best reflection of what this tournament is that I could come up with.

The best players are playing in a 8 team tournament. However, non-national teams take away the best-on-best international label. Strict interpretation applied.

What if we called it a Summit of the Elite? Or something else I don't know? The best of the very best will be competing in an 8 team tournament for the World Cup. It needs to be remembered as the most talented players in the world assembled at a single hockey event in its own category.

There's no ideal way to describe it. It's a tournament that features most of the world's best players. It's a very high end exhibition or showcase or something. It reminds me of the 1979 Challenge Cup or Rendezvous 87.

 

[KarIgo87]

There is no different "formats" to best-on-best hockey. It either is, or it isn't.

This thing isn't. It's high level hockey, presumably (and I don't fault anyone who wishes to watch it because of that), but best-on-best it isn't, since it doesn't conform to the same criteria *all* the other best-on-best tournaments have followed.

It's still best-on-best. It just happens that a couple of Canada's and US's best will play for different team. Would you prefer to watch Switzerland and Slovakia instead of Team NA and Europe? I wouldn't.
I can see why US fans would be disappointed, cause their team is considerably weakened by this Team NA. But Canada? I thought you could make 3-4 teams and 2 of them would be in the Finals, isn't that right? And you're bitсhing about McDavid who probably even hasn't deserved this spot yet. And why Finns or Swedes are disappointed? No one forbids you to take all your best.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There is no different "formats" to best-on-best hockey. It either is, or it isn't.

This thing isn't. It's high level hockey, presumably (and I don't fault anyone who wishes to watch it because of that), but best-on-best it isn't, since it doesn't conform to the same criteria *all* the other best-on-best tournaments have followed.

Technically you're right but I think too much is being made of this and to most fans, the differences are moot. People insist it's not an international tournament, yeah OK fine but most teams have names like Team Canada, Team Finland etc., they will be wearing the colours of their countries ... OK it's not best-in-best but all the top players in the world will be playing ... like you said, it's high level hockey, pretty darn close to as high level as it ever gets so it's pretty amazing that someone can say they're a hockey fan but won't even watch this tournament. A part of me wonders - how much of a hockey can someone be if they don't watch when the best players in the world are going at it. I mean I understand the reasons some say they won't watch, I just figure if I was them, I'd state my objections as strongly as I could but I'd still watch for crissakes, even if I watched without admitting it to anyone. And the thought has crossed my mind - it wouldn't surprise me one bit if some of the people who have been yelling the loudest that they won't be watching in fact did tune in, if not before than at least for the finals. Not that they'd ever admit it of course.

 

[snipes]

Technically you're right but I think too much is being made of this and to most fans, the differences are moot. People insist it's not an international tournament, yeah OK fine but most teams have names like Team Canada, Team Finland etc., they will be wearing the colours of their countries ... OK it's not best-in-best but all the top players in the world will be playing ... like you said, it's high level hockey, pretty darn close to as high level as it ever gets so it's pretty amazing that someone can say they're a hockey fan but won't even watch this tournament. A part of me wonders - how much of a hockey can someone be if they don't watch when the best players in the world are going at it. I mean I understand the reasons some say they won't watch, I just figure if I was them, I'd state my objections as strongly as I could but I'd still watch for crissakes, even if I watched without admitting it to anyone. And the thought has crossed my mind - it wouldn't surprise me one bit if some of the people who have been yelling the loudest that they won't be watching in fact did tune in, if not before than at least for the finals. Not that they'd ever admit it of course.

Do not feel guilty about enjoying watching hockey. The one thing we all share as hockey fans is a love of the best sport on earth. This has gotten out of hand. Like you guys have made your point who are boycotting.

Take in the games, I know I'm going to enjoy them. At this point hopefully more of us who are watching the tournament will check into the thread and we can actually talk about hockey.

 

[snipes]

There's no ideal way to describe it. It's a tournament that features most of the world's best players. It's a very high end exhibition or showcase or something. It reminds me of the 1979 Challenge Cup or Rendezvous 87.

I like that, it's a showcase of the best talent in the world. We'll come up with a way to define it into its own category.

Summit of the Elite jumped to mind, but it's really a showcase of talent. I don't know, nothing like this has ever been done before at a tournament.

 

[snipes]

It's still best-on-best. It just happens that a couple of Canada's and US's best will play for different team. Would you prefer to watch Switzerland and Slovakia instead of Team NA and Europe? I wouldn't.
I can see why US fans would be disappointed, cause their team is considerably weakened by this Team NA. But Canada? I thought you could make 3-4 teams and 2 of them would be in the Finals, isn't that right? And you're bitсhing about McDavid who probably even hasn't deserved this spot yet. And why Finns or Swedes are disappointed? No one forbids you to take all your best.

Let's play some hockey. I love seeing this, the hockey might be some of the best hockey we will have a chance to enjoy.

We got some Russians in ready to compete. Suomi and Tre Kronor you guys have your full roster. This will be awesome hockey to watch especially on the smaller and faster ice. The Young Guns will have their hands full in group play.

 

[FiLe]

And why Finns or Swedes are disappointed? No one forbids you to take all your best.

Because some of us actually care about the integrity of the game beyond our own teams.

And like I said, I don't fault anyone who wants to enjoy it for what it is. Just don't make it seem more than it is.


And the only reason I can't enjoy it for what it is is that there's a viable possibility that these high level hockey showcases end up replacing the true international best-on-best events. I don't wanna have to wait a decade or two before we have the next supposed "best-on-best" event without the added asterisk.

 

[xxxx]

I also think the lack of buzz is hugely overblown. It's the summer and there's a ton going on so I doubt there would be much of a buzz even if there were no gimmick teams - the lack of buzz is in no way an indictment of the format. JMHO. The excitement will pick up in the coming weeks (though it will never be what it once was regardless of the format for reasons I've stated earlier). I've been waiting for this ever since it was announced and once we get going, I will be totally pumped and I know I'm not the only one. The people refusing to watch will be the losers here, they'll be missing out on some top-notch .

People somehow surprised there is no buzzing when we are going through the most watched sport event on the planet - the summer olympics? Does someone really wonder or take it as a negative thing and an evidence for people not being that much interested in the world cup, when we're just going through the most watched sport event on this planet??? yay.

 

[xxxx]

So you are going to ignore that the majority of European fans say one thing, but then accept as truth the one person who says what you want to hear? I'm not surprised, but it is pretty funny to see it written out. As someone who has defended Canada/World Cups before I am actually interested in evidence that Europeans actually have cared about these tournaments, but it is still funny to see such a blatant example of someone seeing what they want to see written out.

I don't ignore them, I say they are wrong if they claim no one in europe really cares It's funny to see an example of someone seeing what they want though, haha.

FiLe being one of them is just ironic though.

 

[JackSlater]

I don't ignore them, I say they are wrong if they claim no one in europe really cares It's funny to see an example of someone seeing what they want though, haha.

FiLe being one of them is just ironic though.

You realize that you are the example, yes? You've been in the threads for years where Europeans say that the tournament is not highly regarded, so you can't pretend to have not heard it before, and then one poster says the opposite and you proclaim it the truth that you knew all along. It's ridiculous. Literally one person told you what you wanted to hear, after years of hearing the opposite, and you proclaimed that now you knew that everyone else was wrong and what you wanted was true.

It's made even funnier when that very poster, who you apparently put so much faith in, later on says that the tournament can't be a big success because of when the games air and that mainly a small group of Russians will watch it. I honestly do hope that you can see that there is a difference between what you want and what actually is.

 

[Gary Nylund]

People somehow surprised there is no buzzing when we are going through the most watched sport event on the planet - the summer olympics? Does someone really wonder or take it as a negative thing and an evidence for people not being that much interested in the world cup, when we're just going through the most watched sport event on this planet??? yay.

I do understand that many people don't like the gimmick teams, hell I don't like them much either. But when people are criticizing a month in advance because there's not much of a buzz at a time when when the bleeping Olympics are on, they're trying much too hard IMO and I lose a lot of respect for whatever else they have to say. JMHO.

 

[KarIgo87]

And the only reason I can't enjoy it for what it is is that there's a viable possibility that these high level hockey showcases end up replacing the true international best-on-best events. I don't wanna have to wait a decade or two before we have the next supposed "best-on-best" event without the added asterisk.

With that I completely agree. If this World Cup means no more NHLers in Olympics then I'm strongly against it. But I'll watch it anyway because it would be stupid not to.

 

[Zine]

I'll watch and hopefully be entertained...it's hockey. But I'm not gonna put any importance into the results, or really care if we win or lose. It's a pre-season exhibition tourney in my eyes.

 

[1Gold Standard]

With that I completely agree. If this World Cup means no more NHLers in Olympics then I'm strongly against it. But I'll watch it anyway because it would be stupid not to.

No, what will be stupid is lending your eyeballs to this farce only to have Bettman upon tournament conclusion point to the profits and ratings as justification to A. end Olympic participation and B. continue with the gimmicky teams. In 4 years time McDavid will still be ineligible to play for his country in this case. I would never forgive myself for contributing to this sham of shams, as a TRUE hockey fan. Therefore, I'll be watching and attending Blue Jays baseball instead. Go Jays.