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Way Too Early 2025 26 NHL DRAFT Discussion

gstommylee said:
so getting rid of our best defensive center in the roster just for the sake of drafting another "center' sure lets make our defense even more of a problem. Our defense has enough issues right now lets not making worse just for the sake of offense.
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I am not sure if you read my post. I never said any of that.

What I said was, you draft Hagens/Misa/whoever is the BPA. Irrespective of their position. If it happens to be Hagens, you draft him. If Hagens ends up hitting his ceiling and is better than both Wright and Beniers, you deal with the "problem" at that point and determine the best route forward. Either way, if you have a log jam at C with multiple good ones, you look into moving them to wing or trading them. It is not exactly a bad problem to have and is unlikely something we run into for another 2-3 years, atleast.
 
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Dead Coyote said:
Taking an objectively worse player because you think you're already set at that position is just a silly uninformed take. Comparing Hagens to Wright or Beniers now is also silly. Like of course Wright and Beniers look better in the NHL now than Hagens or any other draft prospect does, they've played in the NHL and the draft prospect hasn't. That's just...obvious. It's like saying that Stephenson is a better player than Bedard before Bedard was drafted because Stephenson has cups and has played in the NHL.

Junior stats or czech leagues or NCAA stats are relevant to future NHL production. They're not an end all be all or anything but they're relevant and just that, an indicator or a projection. Otherwise teams would just draft whoever wouldn't they?

Compared to his peers and other U18 players, Hagens looks really good. Certainly better than Wright and Beniers were in their U18 years. Not to mention Misa.
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The organization certainly doesn't seem to care about positions when they draft. If we look at our depth chart you can see just how many C's the team has over wingers. Not drafting a C because you think you are all set already is very short-sighted in my opinion.

When I look at Hagens stats in Boston this year, they do look disappointing comparision to his teammates. You did mention that Hagens looks better than Misa and I am curious as to your thinking. Misa had a ridiculous year in juniors but you still feel Hagens is better at this time? Is that because of the NCAA level of play?
 
Fistfullofbeer said:
The organization certainly doesn't seem to care about positions when they draft. If we look at our depth chart you can see just how many C's the team has over wingers. Not drafting a C because you think you are all set already is very short-sighted in my opinion.

When I look at Hagens stats in Boston this year, they do look disappointing comparision to his teammates. You did mention that Hagens looks better than Misa and I am curious as to your thinking. Misa had a ridiculous year in juniors but you still feel Hagens is better at this time? Is that because of the NCAA level of play?
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It's because 1. NCAA is much, much of a harder league to play in than the CHL. I love watching the CHL but the NCAA is a way higher quality league. 2. Relative to his peers, Hagens was the second highest scorer U19 and the highest draft eligible scorer in the league. And in the WJC U20 (which is notoriously also a 19/20yo league primarily) he was the top draft eligible scorer and the 4th highest scorer on his team, despite playing primarily on the 2nd line and PP unit. He was again the highest draft eligible scorer. And while yes, he had a somewhat disappointing season in BC, you gotta remember that Perreault and Leonard are both 2 years older than him. To be fair he does have a fairly late birthday for the draft but those players are still two drafts apart from him.

I'm really high on Misa too, but Hagens is better defensively, I value NCAA more than CHL, and they're comparable to me offensively, but Hagens had a much better year last year than Misa did. Hagens is one of the top scorers of all time in his D-1 year, in the same breadth as guys like Tkachuk, Hughes, Keller, Matthews, etc. His stats and playstyle are actually eerily similar to Keller's especially.

I've also just watched a ton of OHL/CHL in general (London Knights are my main team) and Misa is really really good, but I've watched tons of guys just like him that have a hard time transitioning to the NHL. It's fun to watch but the league just isn't super good, NCAA is a much harder league, you have to be defensively responsible, scoring is much lower, etc. I really don't know why it's the case either, but for whatever reason Misa has never played in the WJC and I have no idea why.
 
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Dead Coyote said:
It's because 1. NCAA is much, much of a harder league to play in than the CHL. I love watching the CHL but the NCAA is a way higher quality league. 2. Relative to his peers, Hagens was the second highest scorer U19 and the highest draft eligible scorer in the league. And in the WJC U20 (which is notoriously also a 19/20yo league primarily) he was the top draft eligible scorer and the 4th highest scorer on his team, despite playing primarily on the 2nd line and PP unit. He was again the highest draft eligible scorer. And while yes, he had a somewhat disappointing season in BC, you gotta remember that Perreault and Leonard are both 2 years older than him. To be fair he does have a fairly late birthday for the draft but those players are still two drafts apart from him.

I'm really high on Misa too, but Hagens is better defensively, I value NCAA more than CHL, and they're comparable to me offensively, but Hagens had a much better year last year than Misa did. Hagens is one of the top scorers of all time in his D-1 year, in the same breadth as guys like Tkachuk, Hughes, Keller, Matthews, etc. His stats and playstyle are actually eerily similar to Keller's especially.

I've also just watched a ton of OHL/CHL in general (London Knights are my main team) and Misa is really really good, but I've watched tons of guys just like him that have a hard time transitioning to the NHL. It's fun to watch but the league just isn't super good, NCAA is a much harder league, you have to be defensively responsible, scoring is much lower, etc. I really don't know why it's the case either, but for whatever reason Misa has never played in the WJC and I have no idea why.
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That makes sense. Success at the NCAA level in your draft year is a better barometer to predict NHL success than doing the same in the CHL. Also, interesting fact about Misa never playing in the WJC.

As a side note I just want to say that I really appreciate your insights on prospects. I enjoy reading stuff like that and it is very nice to have someone like that on our boards. I miss @Juxtaposer
 
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Fistfullofbeer said:
That makes sense. Success at the NCAA level in your draft year is a better barometer to predict NHL success than doing the same in the CHL. Also, interesting fact about Misa never playing in the WJC.

As a side note I just want to say that I really appreciate your insights on prospects. I enjoy reading stuff like that and it is very nice to have someone like that on our boards. I miss @Juxtaposer
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Thanks! I love prospects and I love sharing knowledge and making these posts so I'm really glad you (and hopefully others) get enjoyment out of them. I'm very autistic about hockey and could write a ton, lol. I'm also very opinionated and a little stubborn so it's kind of a perfect storm of things, but I know I won't always be right. I like to think I usually am, but a lot of it is what I can actually remember 😂
 
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Fistfullofbeer said:
That makes sense. Success at the NCAA level in your draft year is a better barometer to predict NHL success than doing the same in the CHL. Also, interesting fact about Misa never playing in the WJC.

As a side note I just want to say that I really appreciate your insights on prospects. I enjoy reading stuff like that and it is very nice to have someone like that on our boards. I miss @Juxtaposer
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Aww, miss you too Fisty!
 
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This draft seems to be turning into another one of the drafts which is looking deeper. I can seen players like Cootes, Bear, Schmidt, Spence, etc. drop outside the top-15 or even the top-20. Another good option could be to move up into the late 1st (20+) and grab one of those guys. Could use one of our additional 1st round picks to make that trade.
 
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Dead Coyote said:
Also re: Hagens upside in general

He set the record for WJC scoring, had one of the best 17yo years of all time, and has consistently looked really good offensively. I don't see lack of upside at all. For sure he doesn't always drive play but the roster he's working with isn't amazing and he has looked really good when he has better players to pass too. He's a playmaker but has a great shot and sick hands.
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Who is better than Perreault and Leonard? It's his inability to connect plays with them that has people thinking he might not become a #1C .

Dead Coyote said:
His skating is good too, he's good defensively off the puck...I just don't see a world where he should be talked about like a middle six tweener. He's not gonna be insane but I see a lot of guys like Tavares for Barzal in him.
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I could see a bit of Barzal for sure. For better and worse. Hagens has an amazing glide speed with the puck, but like Barzal he also likes to carry it a long time and will miss seeing open passing lanes. It makes an interesting contrast with a guy like Martone who has the puck on his stick for a fraction of a second, he knows where he is going to pass it before it gets there. That's a more appealing quality for me.
 
majormajor said:
Who is better than Perreault and Leonard? It's his inability to connect plays with them that has people thinking he might not become a #1C .
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So the thing is that Hagens didn't play solely with Perreault and Leonard. Most of the time he actually didn't play with the two of them together. He mostly played with Perreault and not Leonard, and was usually put with both of them on the PP or late into the game. He played a lot with a combination of Gustaffson, Gasseau, Stiga, Powell and Jelivik, and with Perreault in that mix too. He did eventually get put with both of them a lot more often later on in the season.

And he really connected a lot more with Perreault than Leonard. Honestly I'd also say he was better with Jelivik or Gasseau. I think he definitely should have done better with Leonard and I'm not sure why he didn't but he looked a lot better genrally as a shooter than a passer this season, whereas in the past he did really well with Eiserman specifically setting him up.

I think Perreault prefers to set up Leonard mostly and Hagens isn't the type to always go to the net and crash as much as Leonard is.
 
Dead Coyote said:
So the thing is that Hagens didn't play solely with Perreault and Leonard. Most of the time he actually didn't play with the two of them together. He mostly played with Perreault and not Leonard, and was usually put with both of them on the PP or late into the game. He played a lot with a combination of Gustaffson, Gasseau, Stiga, Powell and Jelivik, and with Perreault in that mix too. He did eventually get put with both of them a lot more often later on in the season.

And he really connected a lot more with Perreault than Leonard. Honestly I'd also say he was better with Jelivik or Gasseau. I think he definitely should have done better with Leonard and I'm not sure why he didn't but he looked a lot better genrally as a shooter than a passer this season, whereas in the past he did really well with Eiserman specifically setting him up.

I think Perreault prefers to set up Leonard mostly and Hagens isn't the type to always go to the net and crash as much as Leonard is.
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It sounds like you are not saying that he struggled with not having good enough players to pass to.

This is more like a guy being very particular with the stylistic fit with his linemates.
 
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majormajor said:
It sounds like you are not saying that he struggled with not having good enough players to pass to.

This is more like a guy being very particular with the stylistic fit with his linemates.
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Yeah, what I mean is that he was mostly the receiver when he played with Perreault, and that even though he played a decent amount with Leonard it was mostly Perreault feeding Leonard and Hagens still being the receiver and getting shots on net. Hagens should have been able to feed Leonard, and that was sometimes the case, but he found more chemistry with other players and was also able to score more. Honestly I was viewing him as more of a playmaker but I think with his WJC and this season performances I think he's shown to be more of a two way all situations guy who can do both but will often just generate his own chances.
 
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Unless he has a guaranteed clean bill of health, I think we can take McQueen off the list of possibilities. I can't see the new GM beginning his first draft with the Kraken by taking somebody who may have long-term back issues. I would guess that Botterill probably sees Columbus' 4OA Cayden Lindstrom pick last year as pretty much a cautionary tale.
 
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The Marquis said:
The way the odds work always fascinates me. We're MORE likely (according to this) to drop a spot, meaning somebody below us gets a top 2 pick, than we are to hold our position in the draft order.
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Yeah and with the million+ sims I have done in tankathon, that percentage passes the eye test. LOL.

I have ended up with the 7th and 8th OA picks more often than the 6th or better.
 
The Marquis said:
I won’t be even a little surprised if NHL TV ratings darlings Pittsburgh and/or Boston somehow find a way to win the lottery. Chicago wouldn’t surprise me either, but the odds are in their favor.
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Won't be surprised either. Ideally, I would love to have one of these in the top-6. But I feel like someone grabs Desnoyers in the top-6 (not us). If the team is super high on Mrtka, then we should definitely be able to get someone we really want. I am going with the worst and assuming we drop to 8. I am also thinking, if one of our guys is not available, we either trade down or even trade out to get an upgrade on our roster. Not something I want but if the scouting team + management sees a big drop in talent where we end up picking, it is certainly not my preference but I can see it happen.

Schaefer
Misa
Hagens
Martone
Frondell
Eklund
 
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