Watching the Lightning (FanDuel Sun, Streaming, TV, etc.)

[LTIR Trickery]

They'd need to have an all-world ad sales team in order to make up the gap from what they were probably getting from cable TV subscriptions and ad revenue.

They're spending all this money to build out a streaming platform, and run the programming. Teams might as well put it on YouTube, where no special investment or backend staff are needed in order to get on a streaming platform more popular than Netflix.

They won't build anything out in this context, the platform is likely already established (there are a few across the big 3 cloud providers) and they'll easily convert and put it on there. The real hangup from doing this sooner has historically been advertising agreements between the teams and regional carrier. I'm not surprised its Vegas doing it currently, they're a new franchise that isn't necessarily "burdened" by existing deals and nonsense.

I'd imagine teams would have liked to do this five years ago as they can then also sell advertising space not only in game, but in app, on stream, etc etc rather than having some weird agreement with Bally and having to third wheel.

 

[Felonious Python]

They won't build anything out in this context, the platform is likely already established (there are a few across the big 3 cloud providers) and they'll easily convert and put it on there. The real hangup from doing this sooner has historically been advertising agreements between the teams and regional carrier. I'm not surprised its Vegas doing it currently, they're a new franchise that isn't necessarily "burdened" by existing deals and nonsense.

I'd imagine teams would have liked to do this five years ago as they can then also sell advertising space not only in game, but in app, on stream, etc etc rather than having some weird agreement with Bally and having to third wheel.

'Build out' is a bit of a misspeak on my part. Most teams would probably look at making a deal with a company that provides the platform. White-label products. I believe that even the ESPN player is (or was) built on what MLB made. There's no way that they're all starting from absolute scratch.

The NHL could make a deal with a platform, but let the teams sell their feed individually, with their own branding and web addresses.

There are a lot of ways to go about it, but these early teams to get into streaming don't have that league deal, and at a glance, don't seem to be pricing themselves in ways that they seem they'll want to stick with long-term. How many people are going to pay $125/year just to watch the Utah Jazz? How will it grow the fan base long-term?

 

[LTIR Trickery]

'Build out' is a bit of a misspeak on my part. Most teams would probably look at making a deal with a company that provides the platform. White-label products. I believe that even the ESPN player is (or was) built on what MLB made. There's no way that they're all starting from absolute scratch.

The NHL could make a deal with a platform, but let the teams sell their feed individually, with their own branding and web addresses.

There are a lot of ways to go about it, but these early teams to get into streaming don't have that league deal, and at a glance, don't seem to be pricing themselves in ways that they seem they'll want to stick with long-term. How many people are going to pay $125/year just to watch the Utah Jazz? How will it grow the fan base long-term?

Technically the NHL is running on that same platform - MLB spun that off as MLB Advanced Media and resells that, but yeah, we're on the same page. The NHL could do this now, likely without too much effort. As for the pricing it poses a good question, and really what can the market bear here - 125/year puts you at about 1.50/game assuming an 82 game season in hockey. That isn't terrible.

 

[Felonious Python]

Technically the NHL is running on that same platform - MLB spun that off as MLB Advanced Media and resells that, but yeah, we're on the same page. The NHL could do this now, likely without too much effort. As for the pricing it poses a good question, and really what can the market bear here - 125/year puts you at about 1.50/game assuming an 82 game season in hockey. That isn't terrible.

The position I'm taking is that the teams want to replace (and eventually expand) on RSN money. Some teams might be okay with pretty much breaking even, but I'm assuming not many.

Having them compete is counterintuitive for what they want to do. For an example, Philadelphia (I'm making all this up.)

Philadelphia 76ers (Sixers+) $100/year
all regional Sixers games

vs

Comcast properties (Cheesesteak+) $175/year
all regional Philadelphia Flyers games
all Philadelphia Wings games (pro lacrosse)
12 months of free Peacock
Universal Kids linear channel and VOD
USA Network VOD
WCAU 10 - NBC livestream

There's no comparison. The Sixers alone look overpriced, and Comcast can just keep adding from their endless list of assets.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

The position I'm taking is that the teams want to replace (and eventually expand) on RSN money. Some teams might be okay with pretty much breaking even, but I'm assuming not many.

Having them compete is counterintuitive for what they want to do. For an example, Philadelphia (I'm making all this up.)

Philadelphia 76ers (Sixers+) $100/year
all regional Sixers games

vs

Comcast properties (Cheesesteak+) $175/year
all regional Philadelphia Flyers games
all Philadelphia Wings games (pro lacrosse)
12 months of free Peacock
Universal Kids linear channel and VOD
USA Network VOD
WCAU 10 - NBC livestream

There's no comparison. The Sixers alone look overpriced, and Comcast can just keep adding from their endless list of assets.

I follow what you mean and yeah, it looks outmatched there. The variable here though is that Comcast is a partial owner in the Flyers (and I think the sixers?) so perhaps it isn't the best example for it due to its positioning between RSN and franchise. I'm very curious to see how things play out with Bally. So many weird variables here, the more I think about it. There has been a significant shift in in-game advertising already with the digital dashers and what that means for existing sponsors who have generally spent at least 300k for suite/signage/boards in the building already.

 

[Felonious Python]

I follow what you mean and yeah, it looks outmatched there. The variable here though is that Comcast is a partial owner in the Flyers (and I think the sixers?) so perhaps it isn't the best example for it due to its positioning between RSN and franchise. I'm very curious to see how things play out with Bally. So many weird variables here, the more I think about it. There has been a significant shift in in-game advertising already with the digital dashers and what that means for existing sponsors who have generally spent at least 300k for suite/signage/boards in the building already.

That was primarily for example purposes.

The Sixers are now owned by the same group that owns the NJ Devils. There are no doubt Sixers and Devils fans, especially in southern New Jersey, but their zip code might be in the Flyers territory.

The variables are what leads me to think that bundles are inevitable, and have to be embraced. They make too much sense, especially if the cost of additions is pretty trivial. Lightning+ with Solar Bears games, for instance. There's a lot of potential overlap in fan bases. Magic+ with Solar Bears, etc.

We're going to end up with, in essence, streaming only RSNs, and they might as well be sold with linear ESPN.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

That was primarily for example purposes.

The Sixers are now owned by the same group that owns the NJ Devils. There are no doubt Sixers and Devils fans, especially in southern New Jersey, but their zip code might be in the Flyers territory.

The variables are what leads me to think that bundles are inevitable, and have to be embraced. They make too much sense, especially if the cost of additions is pretty trivial. Lightning+ with Solar Bears games, for instance. There's a lot of potential overlap in fan bases. Magic+ with Solar Bears, etc.

We're going to end up with, in essence, streaming only RSNs, and they might as well be sold with linear ESPN.

Yeah, I think you're right here. Time will tell.

 

[Felonious Python]

1. Four hours after the meeting, sports business reporter Daniel Kaplan tweeted the news that embattled Bally Sports is terminating its local television contract with the Arizona Coyotes. Kaplan wrote “the Coyotes have consented to this,” adding the team and the NHL “have transition plans in place to facilitate the continued distribution of Coyotes games to fans.”

This is the latest development in Bally’s financial meltdown, and how it affects regional rights in different sports across the United States. Last July, Major League Baseball took over production and distribution for the Arizona Diamondbacks — weeks after it did the same for the San Diego Padres. The Pittsburgh Penguins bought and rebranded the sports network that televised their games, while the Vegas Golden Knights launched their own direct-to-consumer streaming platform. Details are sketchy as I publish, but the initial response is confidence the Coyotes can be made whole and that their games will be available to their fans. We will see the exact details. Their television contract is believed to be around $14 million per year.

 

[Felonious Python]

Long awaited, but not unexpected.


elsewhere:

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DirecTV Stream, one of the few places that offers most Lightning games (Bally, ESPN, TNT), are raising their prices.

 

[Felonious Python]

ESPN DTC trying to get in-market games

 

[Felonious Python]

I decided to be a crazy lil' fella and get an even better Spectrum deal this morning.

I got my bill down to $45.34/month for 500mbps internet, a Xumo box, and a mobile line. That's what the offer was.

Internet speed doesn't matter, and I have a phone MVNO that I'm okay with. Xumo boxes are new, but it seems like a Roku.

How-to:
Be paid off for the billing cycle(?), call Spectrum, ask for complete disconnection, mention competing offer (I used CenturyLink $55/mo)

retention reps posting unofficially on r/spectrum say that they have tools to determine what services you can actually get at your address (probably the FCC website), so you can't completely make the competing offer up.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Felonious Python]

How Phoenix Fans Watch Their Teams May Change How You Watch Yours (Published 2023)

Numerous franchises are expected to overhaul their local media deals, returning games to free networks. The transition is underway in Arizona.

www.nytimes.com

The Jazz are “probably the largest real media company in the state,” Ryan Smith, the team’s owner, said in an interview this year. “If you actually think about the N.B.A., we’re not that different than a media or tech company.”

Mr. Smith said he expected most teams to take over their broadcasts entirely within three years.

The NHL seems interested in getting Ryan Smith a team for Salt Lake City.

We all know the future is in streaming on Peloton machines, smart fridges, etc.

 

[Felonious Python]

Alternatively, Disney could use its current contract with MLB as a negotiation tool. The league is looking for a new broadcast partner for its local rights, as it struggles to get its teams away from Bally Sports-branded regional sports networks has been well documented. ESPN wants those local rights and would like to create a new, higher-priced ESPN+ tier to house them according to Marchand.

Such a move could be mutually beneficial. MLB commissioner Rob Manfred has expressed his desire to see a 30-team streaming platform that offers all games in-market, but popular teams like the New York Yankees already have their own in-market streamers, and they don’t have to share any profits from those platforms with other clubs. Sending local rights to ESPN+ would preclude the need for large MLB teams to subsidize small ones, and would keep MLB associated with the ESPN brand.

I don't really see RSNs going into a pricier tier of ESPN+, but as part of linear DTC ESPN streaming. ESPN wants to sell DTC ESPN streaming for like $30+/month, but linear ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, etc. for that price is a really poor value.

 

[Felonious Python]

Probably the best way to get Paramount+ right now (and CBS broadcasted NFL games)


A year of Paramount+ basic alone would go for $60/year, although you might drop it during certain parts of the year. Paramount+ is from CBS/Viacom, so it leans towards their catalog. Comedy Central, MTV, Nickelodeon, etc. The South Park special event exclusives are on there. JustWatch link

Walmart+ is Bentonville's answer to Amazon Prime. They like to offer sales at the same time as Amazon, and both offer free shipping, video, and other perks.

 

[Felonious Python]

ESPN+ and ProtonVPN free works. You don't need to have the VPN running the whole game. Just get the stream running, and then disconnect from your VPN's US server.

 

[BoltSTH]

ESPN+ and ProtonVPN free works. You don't need to have the VPN running the whole game. Just get the stream running, and then disconnect from your VPN's US server.

Bally Sports locked me out of the first period, then I got 3 'too many streams' even though I just had one stream, and had to log in again. I assume anyone technically capable have left which is the reason they forced out a broken app and a single point of failure with Okta.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Felonious Python]

The NBA has made an agreement with Diamond to make all their Bally Sports deals expire after the season. The NHL is working on something similar.

While the NHL and NBA could entirely walk away from Bally after the season, it creates flexibility for everyone.

 

[gn2007]

Nord vpn amd espn+ works wonder

 

[Felonious Python]

Nord vpn amd espn+ works wonder

ESPN could go way harder on VPNs, but they don't (for now).

You can't watch ESPN+ through Hulu, as they've flagged the free ProtonVPN IP addresses (like most streaming sites of it's type), but it's not a problem if you go directly through ESPN+.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[Felonious Python]

Bally+ definitely has a bit of sticker shock. ESPN+ goes for like 11 dollarbucks a month, but Bally+ goes for $20, and in the case of places like Central Florida, you have to pay double to get both Bally Sun and Florida. No discounts. No add-ins. I'm pretty sure that just because of the arbitrary split between Sun and Florida, their costs aren't actually doubled.

Bally could try to add something like FloSports to the deal. I'd still dump it in the off-season, but it'd create an ESPN+ type offer (and the ECHL, SPHL, BCHL, USHL, and men's NCAA games would be included.) It's kind of nuts that they want $20 bucks a month to watch a handful of Lightning games and not much else at twice the price of a regular streamer.

 

[Felonious Python]