SeanMoneyHands
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Was Ziggy Palffy an elite talent?
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Bear of Bad News
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I think he had Hall of Fame talent but not a level above that, so my answer depends on what you think "elite" means.
MadLuke
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That all about where the elite talent bar is, he would have been the most talented player on a lot of nhl team and finished top 10 in points quite often.
Maybe when talking about all-time great it could be a discussion, but when he was playing he was certainly among the league elite talent of his time.
Maybe when talking about all-time great it could be a discussion, but when he was playing he was certainly among the league elite talent of his time.
Staniowski
Registered User
Yes, of course he was an elite talent.
I first saw him play ar the '91 World Juniors, where he was the revelation of the tournament. Fast and talented, a great scorer. He's close to being the most forgotten (to the extent he's forgotten) great scorer of all-time.
He should be in the HHOF (if i had a vote, it would be an easy "Yes"). One of the top scorers of the DPE in the NHL, and in Europe and internationally otherwise.
I first saw him play ar the '91 World Juniors, where he was the revelation of the tournament. Fast and talented, a great scorer. He's close to being the most forgotten (to the extent he's forgotten) great scorer of all-time.
He should be in the HHOF (if i had a vote, it would be an easy "Yes"). One of the top scorers of the DPE in the NHL, and in Europe and internationally otherwise.
Yozhik v tumane
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- Jan 2, 2019
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His NHL career was short because he up and left the abysmal Penguins mid-season, apparently because of how bad they were.
But he played in Slovakia into his 40s.
But he played in Slovakia into his 40s.
sr edler
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With all these descriptive terms, like "elite", it depends a bit on what you put into them yourself, but Palffy was definitely an upper echelon talent, though obviously not on a say Jagr type of level, or even a Bure or Selänne level.
But it's funny if you've seen those old photos of Palffy in juniors where he wears #68 and sports the exact same mullet as Jagr. He looks just like Jagr, except the size.
Perhaps if he had Jagr's size, he could have been really dominant. But I guess you can play that hypothetical game with most players. Size comes with both pros and cons, and you need to be able to adapt your game accordingly.
But I always found Palffy way more offensively well-rounded than countrymen such as Bondra and later Gaborik. He couldn't just score goals, but make plays and drive a line properly as well. I would also prefer him in front of someone like Gartner, fairly easily.
If the thread question was "Was Palffy more elite than Gartner?" then I would say, yeah, he was.
But it's funny if you've seen those old photos of Palffy in juniors where he wears #68 and sports the exact same mullet as Jagr. He looks just like Jagr, except the size.
Perhaps if he had Jagr's size, he could have been really dominant. But I guess you can play that hypothetical game with most players. Size comes with both pros and cons, and you need to be able to adapt your game accordingly.
But I always found Palffy way more offensively well-rounded than countrymen such as Bondra and later Gaborik. He couldn't just score goals, but make plays and drive a line properly as well. I would also prefer him in front of someone like Gartner, fairly easily.
If the thread question was "Was Palffy more elite than Gartner?" then I would say, yeah, he was.
MadLuke
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Some TV color commentator calling him mini-Jagr, he had a bit of same look and overall offensive threat, playmaking, could score on the islander lot of goals, could be part of a really greats (and different incarnation) first lines with the Kings.
Considering the Kings market and his "per-game" performance there, he was good health away (which for the era is saying a lot, not some just) to be a big star, specially if Blake-Deadmarsh also have health and they push and get in great battle in the playoff against the big name western Avs-Wings team of that era and those good audience numbers that come with it.
Considering the Kings market and his "per-game" performance there, he was good health away (which for the era is saying a lot, not some just) to be a big star, specially if Blake-Deadmarsh also have health and they push and get in great battle in the playoff against the big name western Avs-Wings team of that era and those good audience numbers that come with it.
Terry Yake
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i never understood why he retired halfway through 05-06 citing "lingering shoulder injury" when he was still a PPG player and then never returned to the NHL. instead he took a season off and tore up the slovak league for another several seasons
the "new" NHL was perfectly suited for him
the "new" NHL was perfectly suited for him
MadLuke
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He was not playing full season there either, outside personal preference of his own country, maybe the 54-56 game season schedule was something his body preferrer.
He never had a full season post 1998 (and often less than 75 games) and during the 2005 lock-out he would have lived that life, so he had a good direct comparison between those 2 options.
it was also a very long break, second half of 06 + the complete 06/07 year, so it could have been a serious should issue.
He never had a full season post 1998 (and often less than 75 games) and during the 2005 lock-out he would have lived that life, so he had a good direct comparison between those 2 options.
it was also a very long break, second half of 06 + the complete 06/07 year, so it could have been a serious should issue.
By P/G he finished 11th (96-97), 13th (97-98), 14th (98-99), 14th (99-00), 4th (00-01), 19th (01-02), 10th (02-03). He didn't play enough games to qualify in 03-04 but was 2nd.
So I'd say on the relatively low end of elite.
So I'd say on the relatively low end of elite.
MadLuke
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Goal per games finish to add to the ppg above:
Goals Per Game
1996-97 NHL 0.60 (8th)
1997-98 NHL 0.55 (6th)
2000-01 NHL 0.52 (9th)
2001-02 NHL 0.51 (5th)
2002-03 NHL 0.49 (9th)
Goals Per Game
1996-97 NHL 0.60 (8th)
1997-98 NHL 0.55 (6th)
2000-01 NHL 0.52 (9th)
2001-02 NHL 0.51 (5th)
2002-03 NHL 0.49 (9th)
The Pale King
Go easy on those Mango Giapanes brother...
Absolutely he was. His highlight reel is absurd, but the numbers he put were also pretty mind-boggling for the linemates he had and the era he played in.
On a medium-bad ('mid' as the kids say) 2002-03 Kings team, he had 85 points when the next closest player, an ancient Mathieu Schneider, had 43. The next closest forward had 38 points. So he more than doubled them, while putting up a team-leading +22 (next closest was Frolov's +12). He was really on an island that year, almost unprecedently so, and no one ever talks about that year, ever. And it was very similar when he was with the Islanders. Travis Green, Bryan Smolinski... solid players but not guys who get you to the 90 point plateau without that aforementioned elite talent that Palffy had.
I've made this point before on here, but he had three seasons where he scored in the mid-40s goals-wise. Give him a handful of extra goals, and we're talking about a 3-time 50 goal scorer at the height of the dead puck era and he's got that to hang his hat on.
Ironically, all he had to do was tread water at the end of his career in Pittsburgh and he's probably got the minimum-threshold numbers to have a strong HHOF case. He went out as a PPG player, so with another season or two on Crosby's wing and maybe a decent post-season run we'd have the narrative (accurate or not) about him being a "savvy veteran who showed Sid the ropes when he came into the league". I wrote a hypothetical post on some thread on here a number of years ago where I speculated on what that situation could look like season-by-season. Might dig it up later...
On a medium-bad ('mid' as the kids say) 2002-03 Kings team, he had 85 points when the next closest player, an ancient Mathieu Schneider, had 43. The next closest forward had 38 points. So he more than doubled them, while putting up a team-leading +22 (next closest was Frolov's +12). He was really on an island that year, almost unprecedently so, and no one ever talks about that year, ever. And it was very similar when he was with the Islanders. Travis Green, Bryan Smolinski... solid players but not guys who get you to the 90 point plateau without that aforementioned elite talent that Palffy had.
I've made this point before on here, but he had three seasons where he scored in the mid-40s goals-wise. Give him a handful of extra goals, and we're talking about a 3-time 50 goal scorer at the height of the dead puck era and he's got that to hang his hat on.
Ironically, all he had to do was tread water at the end of his career in Pittsburgh and he's probably got the minimum-threshold numbers to have a strong HHOF case. He went out as a PPG player, so with another season or two on Crosby's wing and maybe a decent post-season run we'd have the narrative (accurate or not) about him being a "savvy veteran who showed Sid the ropes when he came into the league". I wrote a hypothetical post on some thread on here a number of years ago where I speculated on what that situation could look like season-by-season. Might dig it up later...
The Pale King
Go easy on those Mango Giapanes brother...
Speaking of 50 goal seasons, can anyone enlighten me as to what happened in 1996-97, when Palffy put up a career high 48 goals, but only 6 (six!) were on the powerplay? It's sandwiched by two years of 17 PPG. He had 38 at even-strength (the league leader Tkachuk had 41) and just a couple extra goals on the power play and he's got himself a 50 goal season.
Whatever setup the Islanders were using Milbury that season had Palffy shifting to more of a passing role on the powerplay (6 goals and 15 assists with the extra man, vs 38 and 25 at EV). It looks like just 21 of his 90 points were with the extra man. Without summoning PNEP, that seems like a very low percentage for a guy with 90 points.
Palffy definitely excelled off the rush, he's in that next tier of guys below McDavid and Bure for me when he enters the zone with speed and 1 or zero defensemen back, but he could be very effective on the powerplay as well (evidenced by the surrounding seasons). Such a weird oddity, and one that cost him his best shot at 50 goals.
Whatever setup the Islanders were using Milbury that season had Palffy shifting to more of a passing role on the powerplay (6 goals and 15 assists with the extra man, vs 38 and 25 at EV). It looks like just 21 of his 90 points were with the extra man. Without summoning PNEP, that seems like a very low percentage for a guy with 90 points.
Palffy definitely excelled off the rush, he's in that next tier of guys below McDavid and Bure for me when he enters the zone with speed and 1 or zero defensemen back, but he could be very effective on the powerplay as well (evidenced by the surrounding seasons). Such a weird oddity, and one that cost him his best shot at 50 goals.
