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Was Suter that good?

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nomorekids said:
hm...I disagree. Lepisto REALLY impressed me last year, and I was shocked he fell so far in the draft. I think when all is said and done...he'll be a bigger "steal" than Wes O'Neill ever was.
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I'd agree that Lepisto had an impressive tournament but that doesn't mean he deserved the top D-man honors (that's where the home cookin' tips the scales IMHO). I will say that if he played like he did during that tournament, all the time, then he'd be a no-brainer to have an NHL job in the very near future. On Suter, I'm not trying to say he was totally without merit, just that being a US player helped him get the nod.

On a side note, I don't think O'Neil has proven he's any kind of steal so far. He racked up some powerplay points but the times I've watched him this season he's just been a big, unimpressive, slow guy for Notre Dame.
 
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Carl O'Steen said:
You got a good one in Shafigulin.
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that was good to see, though sadly...i have a feeling he'll be rockin' and rollin' his entire career in the RSL. The Preds have had pretty poor luck with Russians.

Sergei Soin- refused to come over unless a roster spot was guaranteed.
Andrew Mukhachev- Was scheduled to be at Milwaukee's training camp with a spot on the defense all but guaranteed...never showed up with no word as to why. Later told Poile, "Oh, I changed my mind. I'll come over next year, maybe." Poile told him not to bother, and he's no longer in the system.
Denis Platonov- Turned heads in Russia, came over here expecting to be a star, stunk it up on the third line in Milwaukee for 2 weeks. Went home, claiming to be "homesick"
Denis Arkhipov- What more need be said?

The precedent doesn't look good...same goes for the rapidly-falling Glazachev.
 
nomorekids said:
being a homer should have nothign to do with it...because Weber is yet another preds prospect(and haven't we been hailing this guy all year while everyone laughed in our faces?) but pair weber with likens...or hell...phaneuf with likens...and see what they could have done with that lemon. Phaneuf and Weber were tremendous for Canada...but who do you give the recognition to? The 4.0 GPA kid who came out of Bel-Air with all conditions being prime for his success...or the kid that came up through the hockey equivalent of a crack-brothel, with Tyrone Biggins for his main homie?

A strange analogy, but Suter had a lot going AGAINST him, but still managed to do a pretty admirable job. Managing to lead the tournament in points all while having to keep an eye on your defense partner...baby Jane...is pretty impressive. If he had another partner like Stuart...someone he didn't have to worry about...he would have been able to play a lot more free-wheeling game, and who knows then.
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Yeah he had a lot going against him and he played solid considering what he was up against,i agree with that.But all-star placings are not about playing solid with a bad team...it should strictly be about performance and Webers performance was simply better then Suter's this year and that is/should be the bottom line.I don't know if you got to see Canada's games(probably not i assume) but i got to see three of the U.S games and all of Canada's and i know when someone is playing better and Weber was the better d-man in THIS tourney.Suter will probably turn out to be the more valuable pro....he has more gifts.....but he did'nt play as well as Weber in North Dakota so he should'nt have gotten top billing at the end of the tourney.
It should be based on merit and not rep.I don't get the bel-air analogy and what it has to do with this here.Before the tourney most American posters here were telling everyone who would listen not to underestimate Americas defense and that Canada may not be all it's cracked up to be but now you are here telling me we were all set up for success before the puck was dropped and the U.S was destined to be awful(crack addicts as you put it) I'm sorry but Weber does'nt get penalised for that type of thinking if you ask me. He was the better defenseman at this tourney and i saw it with my own eyes regardless if he did'nt have to baby-sit Jeff Likens....that's not his problem. Suter has many years to grab awards and nominations and is likely to get them.......Weber may never see another one so he should'nt have lost the one he deserved and believe me....he deserved it.The voters made the wrong call.
 
nomorekids said:
that was good to see, though sadly...i have a feeling he'll be rockin' and rollin' his entire career in the RSL. The Preds have had pretty poor luck with Russians.

Sergei Soin- refused to come over unless a roster spot was guaranteed.
Andrew Mukhachev- Was scheduled to be at Milwaukee's training camp with a spot on the defense all but guaranteed...never showed up with no word as to why. Later told Poile, "Oh, I changed my mind. I'll come over next year, maybe." Poile told him not to bother, and he's no longer in the system.
Denis Platonov- Turned heads in Russia, came over here expecting to be a star, stunk it up on the third line in Milwaukee for 2 weeks. Went home, claiming to be "homesick"
Denis Arkhipov- What more need be said?

The precedent doesn't look good...same goes for the rapidly-falling Glazachev.
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you've definitely got a point, but I wonder if Shafigulin was promised a spot on the Ads with potential to work for a spot with the Preds if he'd bite. I think he could be sleeper.
 
cyclops said:
Yeah he had a lot going against him and he played solid considering what he was up against,i agree with that.But all-star placings are not about playing solid with a bad team...it should strictly be about performance and Webers performance was simply better then Suter's this year and that is/should be the bottom line.I don't know if you got to see Canada's games(probably not i asume) but i got to see three of the U.S games and all of Canada's and i know when someone is playing better and Weber was the better d-man in THIS tourney.Suter will probably turn out to be the more valuable pro....he has more gifts.....but he did'nt play as well as Weber in North Dakota so he should'nt have gotten top billing at the end of the tourney.
It should be based on merit and not rep.I don't get the bel-air analogy and what it has to do with this here.Before the tourney most American posters here were telling everyone who would listen not to underestimate Americas defense and that Canada may not be all it's cracked up to be but now you are here telling me we were all set up for success before the puck was dropped and the U.S was destined to be awful(crack addicts as you put it) I'm sorry but Weber does'nt get penalised for that type of thinking if you ask me. He was the better defenseman at this tourney and i saw it with my own eyes regardless if he did'nt have to baby-sit Jeff Likens....that's not his problem. Suter has many years to grab awards and nominations and is likely to get them.......Weber may never see another one so he should'nt have lost the one he deserved and believe me....he deserved it.The voters made the wrong call.
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never thought I'd see a discussion as to which Pred prospect deserves an award. :D
 
cyclops said:
Yeah he had a lot going against him and he played solid considering what he was up against,i agree with that.But all-star placings are not about playing solid with a bad team...it should strictly be about performance and Webers performance was simply better then Suter's this year and that is/should be the bottom line.I don't know if you got to see Canada's games(probably not i asume) but i got to see three of the U.S games and all of Canada's and i know when someone is playing better and Weber was the better d-man in THIS tourney.Suter will probably turn out to be the more valuable pro....he has more gifts.....but he did'nt play as well as Weber in North Dakota so he should'nt have gotten top billing at the end of the tourney.
It should be based on merit and not rep.I don't get the bel-air analogy and what it has to do with this here.Before the tourney most American posters here were telling everyone who would listen not to underestimate Americas defense and that Canada may not be all it's cracked up to be but now you are here telling me we were all set up for success before the puck was dropped and the U.S was destined to be awful(crack addicts as you put it) I'm sorry but Weber does'nt get penalised for that type of thinking if you ask me. He was the better defenseman at this tourney and i saw it with my own eyes regardless if he did'nt have to baby-sit Jeff Likens....that's not his problem. Suter has many years to grab awards and nominations and is likely to get them.......Weber may never see another one so he should'nt have lost the one he deserved and believe me....he deserved it.The voters made the wrong call.
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Even if his defensive play is thrown out the window...Suter lead defensemen in points by a fair margin. If situations were reversed..and Coburn lead the d-men in points but Casey Borer was named for being better defensively...then there'd be complaints about that. Phaneuf was the best defensive d-man in the tournament while being no slouch offensively...Suter was the best offensive d-man in the tournament while being no slouch defensively. I don't see the problem.
 
nomorekids said:
Even if his defensive play is thrown out the window...Suter lead defensemen in points by a fair margin. .
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I beleive he had one more point then Phaneuf. One point certainly isn't a fair margin.
 
Shea Weber was a MONSTER partially because of who he was paired with. Phaneuf rubbed off on Weber and their impact was felt.

With Suter he was a MONSTER too and none of his play or production was thanks to partner Jeff Likens. If anything Suter's play was held back because of the liability that was Jeff Likens.

IMO Suter deserved to lineup alongside Phaneuf on the All World Junior Team, but Weber was undoubtedly next in line or close to the top as an honorable mention!!!
 
nomorekids said:
The site I saw had Phaneuf listed with six points I believe..and Suter with 9
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Suter finished the tournement with 8 points in 7 games. Phaneuf had 6 points in 6 games. I don't see that gap being that big either.
 
Not just because of phaneuf!!

The whole team rubbed off on each other, not just those two! Why was weber there in the first place? It wasn't because of his amazing offensive upside, it was because he is one hardest players to play against in the western league. He elevated his game, and we saw scott stevens out there. He did not just recently get this good or he wouldn't have made Team Canada.
 
Who Cares

I doubt you guys got to see every game, so its tough to fight over who was better than who! The canadian team is so strong that you could pick the whole allstar team from them. This might of been easier to gage if Canada played team US, so we could of seen how well suter would of did against the canadian squad.
 
nomorekids said:
Even if his defensive play is thrown out the window...Suter lead defensemen in points by a fair margin. If situations were reversed..and Coburn lead the d-men in points but Casey Borer was named for being better defensively...then there'd be complaints about that. Phaneuf was the best defensive d-man in the tournament while being no slouch offensively...Suter was the best offensive d-man in the tournament while being no slouch defensively. I don't see the problem.
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Well i'm so happy today that i am just going to make this my last post on the subject.You know defense is more then about scoring points.Weber was damn near flawless all tourney long and was a wrecking ball who manhandled everyone who came in his path....that's defense my man!! He may have made two (minor) mistakes all tournament long.....you can't ask for much better from a d-man. I watched the games and he played better then Suter.I feel bad for the kid because he played so well and deserved it over Suter quite easily.however...i'm sure he does'nt care as he has the gold medal around his neck this morning.But man.....he really should have got that accolade.........sorry.
 
cyclops said:
Well i'm so happy today that i am just going to make this my last post on the subject.You know defense is more then about scoring points.Weber was damn near flawless all tourney long and was a wrecking ball who manhandled everyone who came in his path....that's defense my man!! He may have made two (minor) mistakes all tournament long.....you can't ask for much better from a d-man. I watched the games and he played better then Suter.I feel bad for the kid because he played so well and deserved it over Suter quite easily.however...i'm sure he does'nt care as he has the gold medal around his neck this morning.But man.....he really should have got that accolade.........sorry.
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but you're acting like he was tom poti defensively. Suter was for the most part a ROCK defensively. People are all too frequently blaming Suter for mistakes that Likens and Lee made, and that's not really fair to him. Suter was great defensively, but stellar offensively.
 
nomorekids said:
but you're acting like he was tom poti defensively. Suter was for the most part a ROCK defensively. People are all too frequently blaming Suter for mistakes that Likens and Lee made, and that's not really fair to him. Suter was great defensively, but stellar offensively.
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O.K :)
 
The all star picks have nothing to do with politics... do you think many americans cared whether weber was the allstar or if suter was?? you can throw out the idea that they 'had' to have an american on the allstar team..

in the end suter was the better defenceman than weber.. the difference is weber was paired with phaneuf so he 'looked' much better than Suter (who was paired with.. well.. noone basically)

Suter had to hold his own and did a marvelous job despite many errors by his partner.. weber played very well too but overall if you watched the games, you'll see that Suter was one of a few bright spots for the US team.. he did a relatively good job shutting down the opposition as well as producing offensively.. Suter cant be blamed if the rest of the defense and his goalie stunk it up
 
chriss_co said:
The all star picks have nothing to do with politics... do you think many americans cared whether weber was the allstar or if suter was?? you can throw out the idea that they 'had' to have an american on the allstar team..

in the end suter was the better defenceman than weber.. the difference is weber was paired with phaneuf so he 'looked' much better than Suter (who was paired with.. well.. noone basically)

Suter had to hold his own and did a marvelous job despite many errors by his partner.. weber played very well too but overall if you watched the games, you'll see that Suter was one of a few bright spots for the US team.. he did a relatively good job shutting down the opposition as well as producing offensively.. Suter cant be blamed if the rest of the defense and his goalie stunk it up
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:handclap:

You said perfectly what I've been tripping over the past day or so :)

now...one could argue that Weber was rubbing off on Phaneuf... :D
 
nomorekids said:
:handclap:

You said perfectly what I've been tripping over the past day or so :)

now...one could argue that Weber was rubbing off on Phaneuf... :D
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I will grant you that Suter was one of the only bright spots on what was otherwise a very undetermined, and unprepared US team. But when it is pitch black, the bright lights shine all the brighter. Suter did manage to do his job defensively while leading the tournament in points for a defenceman. You are however overstepping you bounds by suggesting that Weber was rubbing off on Phaneuf. This team Canada was made of leaders, who lead by example. They were prepared, and they had their eye on the prize the whole time. Weber was most definitely the most underrated D man of the tourney. Had been able to chip in with some offense I think he may have gotten the nod over Suter. But that is yet another testament to team Canada and all the guys understanding their roles. Weber didn't need to worry about offense, so he stayed focused on taking the body, and clearing the puck and the crease area. Suter was not as good defensively, because he had to contribute to the offense as well. Needless to say, all three of them will have great NHL careers, and I think you will find that Suter will benefit most by having Weber by his side in Nashville for many years to come.
 
Puckhead said:
I will grant you that Suter was one of the only bright spots on what was otherwise a very undetermined, and unprepared US team. But when it is pitch black, the bright lights shine all the brighter. Suter did manage to do his job defensively while leading the tournament in points for a defenceman. You are however overstepping you bounds by suggesting that Weber was rubbing off on Phaneuf. This team Canada was made of leaders, who lead by example. They were prepared, and they had their eye on the prize the whole time. Weber was most definitely the most underrated D man of the tourney. Had been able to chip in with some offense I think he may have gotten the nod over Suter. But that is yet another testament to team Canada and all the guys understanding their roles. Weber didn't need to worry about offense, so he stayed focused on taking the body, and clearing the puck and the crease area. Suter was not as good defensively, because he had to contribute to the offense as well. Needless to say, all three of them will have great NHL careers, and I think you will find that Suter will benefit most by having Weber by his side in Nashville for many years to come.
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haha...whoooa

I was kidding! Hence the evil grin!
 
Suter really impressed me. It seemed that the US would get in trouble when he wasn't on the ice. He really shut down the opponents crafty centres both on the rush and down low. His offence was a bonus.

Was he better than Weber? I don't think that can be answered. Thet're both in 2 totally different situations. Weber plays in the shadow of a touted stud. Suter plays with Likens (I think :dunno: That just goes to show which guy had the better partner). The goalies behind them also had an effect, such as +/- and confidence too.

In the end I think Suter was the right pick. He was the USA captain. He played hard and well every shift and gave it his all. He clearly was the teams leader.
 
All-star selections and hall of fame entry are no big deal to me. But to you Nashville fans: You have a good one in Suter. I think he'll be a solid #2 guy for over 10 years. I'd love it if the Caps could pick him up somehow.
 
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