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Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

Rehabguy said:
Mars, we’re in a 5 game winning streak since Barzy returned from his injury and got his feet up to speed. He’s not McDavid but be glad we have him and at a reasonable price.

I wish Isles fans embraced the positivity that Roy brings to this organization as I have. I’m an Islander fan. I cheer for my team and continue to believe no matter how dire the situation. The odds are stacked against us but players like Barzal are exactly the reason why I believe that anything is possible because oftentimes he makes what appears impossible possible.
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Yes, I cannot argue against our 5 Game winning streak.
I just hope Barzy hits another gear someday soon.
 
PK Cronin said:
No, as usual, you didn't engage in the argument. You made some vague comments about not trusting stats and wanting to removing outliers, except for the outliers you like. You completely ignored the statistics provided that were presented without any desire to trade or keep Barzal but to have an honest discussion about what is happening on the ice when he's in or out of the lineup.
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If the players were switched and Pettersson was drafted by the Islanders and Barzal by the Canucks, people would be defending Pettersson in the same way they're defending Barzal. It's just fandom.
 
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Pettersson, being such a needle moving star has only played 30 playoff games and there are a few other star players on those teams that out scored him by margin.

Barzal, the overrated hack who couldn’t lead his team anywhere has played 60 playoff games while being their leading scorer over that time.

Weird
 
Icelanders said:
Pettersson, being such a needle moving star has only played 30 playoff games and there are a few other star players on those teams that out scored him by margin.

Barzal, the overrated hack who couldn’t lead his team anywhere has played 60 playoff games while being their leading scorer over that time.

Weird
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And one of our best playoff performers to boot. Weird indeed 👍
 
Richie Daggers Crime said:
If the players were switched and Pettersson was drafted by the Islanders and Barzal by the Canucks, people would be defending Pettersson in the same way they're defending Barzal. It's just fandom.
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But they’re not switched and one of them is happy to play for the Islanders with a well deserved contract while the other is dragging his team down having a dispute with a fellow teammate while under a $92M contract. That’s not fandom. That’s the actual situation they are in right now. It is true that fans love their own players. It’s natural but what’s going on in Vancouver is definitely not the norm. I’d stay as far away from it as possible.

MJF said:
I don’t think it matters. Barzal has yet to make a significant difference in our fortunes.
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And again how exactly has EP changed the Nucks fortunes because right now it looks like it’s for the worse.
 
Rehabguy said:
And again how exactly has EP changed the Nucks fortunes because right now it looks like it’s for the worse.
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That wasn’t in the post I’m responding to.

You do like to move the goalposts.

Hudson Fasching sent down to Bridgeport for conditioning, or until he becomes an NHL player, whichever comes first.
 
PK Cronin said:
I looked at and posted the numbers with and without Barzal in the lineup (when he was out extended periods of time) and the stats didn't back this up. The team was better in most categories without him if I recall correctly. Here it is again in case you wanted to look at it:

View attachment 969599

As I mentioned in the posted I originally supplied that data: I am not a math wiz and was at work being interrupted while looking at some of the data so there could definitely be errors.

I'm not advocating for or against a deal involving the two players, but against this narrative that the team is so much better when he's playing than without. He's a very flawed player, like a few of us have been saying for quite some time, and a select few refuse to acknowledge it (not you).

I haven't looked at any of the Petterson numbers, other than what you provided, but my hesitation with acquiring a player like that is that he seems to be a bit mentally soft. Whether that's a fair judgement or not for me to make I don't know, given we don't know what exactly the dynamic is in that locker room. That said, you need to get talent in order to compete so finding a way to bring in more is always welcome and his age fits better than Miller for this team.

Just one note on the advanced stats, we've been looking at expected this and expected that for a decent chunk of time now but the expectations have rarely ever come to fruition. I think it's useful to tell part of the story but if the expectations never meet reality they're not nearly that important.
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Correct me if I’m wrong - this looks like you’re posting numbers you’ve compiled for the performance of the entire team, not just when Barzy is on the ice right?
 
Rehabguy said:
But they’re not switched and one of them is happy to play for the Islanders with a well deserved contract while the other is dragging his team down having a dispute with a fellow teammate while under a $92M contract. That’s not fandom. That’s the actual situation they are in right now. It is true that fans love their own players. It’s natural but what’s going on in Vancouver is definitely not the norm. I’d stay as far away from it as possible.
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Valid, but nothing to do with the statistical difference.
 
Zeeker said:
Please lord. I’m fine with this win streak in a vacuum but if it causes us to hold onto the UFAs then it’s a complete disaster
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This team is screwing it up.....Now definitely Lou is not moving ANYONE and at the end of the year. Nelson and Parms will be gone and we get SHIT -- Book it.
 
PK Cronin said:
That is correct, yes.
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Yeah, so the numbers I was posting are just when he’s on the ice. I don’t think you can really hold him accountable for what happens when he’s not playing the game. Isles have consistently outscored their opponent at about a 3:2 rate with Barzal on the ice for around the last 5 years, but that’s only 20 minutes of a 60 minute game.

The best explanation I have for that is that the other players go harder to step up with their star player out. Also maybe there’s a real argument that he shouldn’t be on PP1. But I’m struggling to come up with another reason why they’d be doing that much better without him when he himself is outperforming the rest of the team by a wide margin.
 
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impaaaaaact said:
Yeah, so the numbers I was posting are just when he’s on the ice. I don’t think you can really hold him accountable for what happens when he’s not playing the game. Isles have consistently outscored their opponent at about a 3:2 rate with Barzal on the ice for around the last 5 years, but that’s only 20 minutes of a 60 minute game.

The best explanation I have for that is that the other players go harder to step up with their star player out. Also maybe there’s a real argument that he shouldn’t be on PP1. But I’m struggling to come up with another reason why they’d be doing that much better without him when he himself is outperforming the rest of the team by a wide margin.
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How the team is performing is the most important thing though. So the question is, why does the team perform worse when he's in the lineup than without him? The follow up question is how can the team perform at a higher level with him in the lineup? If the answer is that it can't, then he's a net negative even if he's performing well when he's on the ice. If the answer is that they can, they need to finally do it.

Like most things, I don't think there's a singular reason for it. I do think some of it is what you're mentioning, other players stepping up. A secondary thing is that he logs a lot of ice time, so he's taking time away from everyone else and not necessarily playing a simple game that allows others to get into the flow of the game by giving them touches. He seems to be a very difficult player to play with because of the unique way he wants to play.

If the rest of the team just needs more touches and/or slightly different roles, trading him for a more traditional player could prove to be beneficial for the team as a whole. If the rest of the team can't maintain that level of play for an extended period of time then it'd be unwise to trade him for a potentially worse player.

Instead of sticking our heads in the sand we (or Isles management) should be trying to figure out how and why this is happening, because it has happened over a pretty decent sample size at this point.
 
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SRBisles said:
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This makes a lot of sense.
Columbus has plenty of cap space, prospects, picks, and young NHLers to make a deal work. I can see the veteran GM working this hard - Kent Johnson is from BC and Columbus has two first-rounders this season.
 
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