Was Luongo good enough for everyone?

[haakon84]

Poor response. Picked out one point, and argued it half-assedly. First of all, there SHOULDN'T BE so many rebounds. Second, if the rebounds are directed aimlessly to the nearest corner, that doesn't do us much good when the Czechs are the first ones there all the time.

What about his lethargy on shoot-ins. What does you brilliant hockey mind say about that? Jeez, can't wait to hear this.....

Don't expect too much out of him look how well he argued my points.

 

[Rocky Saginuts]

Yeah haakon, I just signed on, but noticed he does not have too many useful points (obvious type-O regarding the Finn/Czech transposition).

I'll take him for what he is. :bonk:

 

[kurt]

Luongo and Vokoun

I thought that Roberto played extremely well. This is a guy that's used to playing game in and game out with the Panthers, and getting peppered with rubber. For yesterday's game he was a last-minute starter for an injured Brodeur, and had to go into a must-win game against an extremely talented team, having not played a high-level hockey game in months. There's no way this could have been easy. He was given almost no chance to adjust.

The "shaky" goals he let in were definitely questionable. Sure, there were redirections, but if Roberto was a little sharper mentally he would have been in position to save them. Regardless, Roberto gave an unbelievable performance when it matterend most, and gave Canada what they needed to win.

Vokoun also played extremely well. The Draper goal was a little weak, but if you were a goalie, wouldn't you be a little complacent if, of all people, Draper was streaking up the boards with the puck? You can't fault him for the Brewer goal, the forwards had their backs turned, watching the puck behind the net, and Brewer tiptoed in front of the net. It was a great play. Lecavalier's goal was lucky, an incredibly sharp angle, but Vokoun had to assume Lecavalier would have gotten a shot on the first opportunity. He fully committed, and as a result he was completely out of position for Vinny's second chance at the puck.

One thing's for sure though, I'm going to be breathing a lot easier with Brodeur between the pipes again.

 

[Rocky Saginuts]

Agree 100% Parise - pretty much what I said in a previous post (best to ignore JackS's opinions).

Watching Luongo gooble with the puck, and constantly miss shoot-ins really makes you appreciate how Brodeur makes everything look so effortless.

We need him back there.

 

[quat]

A career highlight package of greatest games for Roy or Hasek would put Brodeur to shame. And I like Brodeur. He's a solid NHL regular, reliable, the sort of guy you expect to neither win the game nor lose the game usually.

I'm pretty certain you look at the style of goalie Roy and Hasek were to come up with your opinion. Flamboyant and self agrandizing seem to fit both goalies. They are obviously great and of that there is no debate. But you don't seem to give Brodeur much credit because the things that are best about his game are more difficult to notice. He is always calm and steady, he plays the puck or chooses to freeze it or keep it in play exactly when it matters. He doesn't flop like Hasek, nor rub the big saves in the oppositions faces like Roy, but the fact is he refuses to let other teams feel like they have a chance, and that makes his team stronger and the opposition weaker. I would have no problem taking Brodeur over Hasek in his prime, because ultimately Brodeur makes his team better while Hasek has always been all about himself. Most people seem to assume that the Devils have been good because of their system. After this series and the Olympics, it's clear to me that the Devils are Brodeurs team, and the majority of their success is because of his style of play in net.

 

[quat]

What is it with you people trying to put down Brodeur as simply "a solid NHL goalie" and someone who will "neither win a game nor lose one"? I am not a fan of Brodeur or the Devils but I mean come on. I think that he is, hands down, the best goalie in the game today and firmly believe that when he retires will be regarded as the best goalie of all time. He has dominated this tournement as he dominated in Salt Lake City and has been the backbone of the Devils for almost a decade.

Those who use the Devil`s superior defense as an explanation for Brodeur`s stats really don`t have much of an argument since they play a defensive game because the entire franchise has been built around Brodeur and Stevens. The fact that he only faces 20 shots a game actually makes it harder on him since he has to stay sharp mentally through long periods with no work.

Add to all of this the fact that he has revolutionized the position with his puckhandling abilities to the point where the NHL is actually considering enforcing rules to neutralize this skill and create more offense.

IMO this guy is the best the game has ever seen.

He is among the very best, no question. Well said.

 

[loadie]

He was a little rusty at first, but with the Florida like shots allowed, he did impress me.

 

[DownFromNJ]

I don't see why nobody is hot on Luongo here... he sported a higher save percentage in regular season play than Brodeur and is a great up and coming goalie.

Because Luongo creates shots for himself, then saves them. Brodeur never allows those shots to occur. Canada also really missed the puckhandling ability

Luongo didn't perform poorly at all though. He stood on his head for moments. He let in a bad goal, but also made some great saves. However, he still is not in Brodeur's class.

Brodeur's achievements don't show up on a statsheet in anything other than a solid win.

Btw, if you want to talk about stats, see Brodeur's world cup performance vs Luongo's 3 Goals on 107 Shots for Brodeur, 3 goals on 37 shots for Luongo...

 

[AGraveOne]

It doesn't work like that. When a goalie allows a few softies that shouldn't have went in, the whole team plays nervously. The effect a goalie has on the team that plays in front of him is huge. Especially considering the fact our defense is so young and we were facing the dangerous czechs.

Man, i guess that is true only for Canada...cause Vokoun let in plenty of crap goals...and their defense maintained form.

 

[haakon84]

Man, i guess that is true only for Canada...cause Vokoun let in plenty of crap goals...and their defense maintained form.

They didn't maintain enough form to win. Throw Brodeur on the Czechs that game and its a win.

 

[AGraveOne]

They didn't maintain enough form to win. Throw Brodeur on the Czechs that game and its a win.

And the Czechs defense still let up 16 fewer shots...they played solidly despite the weak goals given up by their goalie.

Easy to say hard to prove about Brodeur...

Throw Hasek on the Devils during the mid 90s and the Devils get 5 Cups and are a true dynasty.

Throw Brodeur on the Hurricanes and we won't be talking about him right now...

Brodeur has let in many shakey goals in his career....take last season's playoffs. Put Esche on the Devils and they make it to the next round instead of the Flyers.

 

[haakon84]

And the Czechs defense still let up 16 fewer shots...they played solidly despite the weak goals given up by their goalie.

Easy to say hard to prove about Brodeur...

Throw Hasek on the Devils during the mid 90s and the Devils get 5 Cups and are a true dynasty.

Throw Brodeur on the Hurricanes and we won't be talking about him right now...

Brodeur has let in many shakey goals in his career....take last season's playoffs. Put Esche on the Devils and they make it to the next round instead of the Flyers.

I'm not going to start this argument again. But I disagree completely. Again this past game showed how much Brodeur's puckhandling, rebound control, and ability to make a big save at the right time (3 categories I think he is the best all-time at)add to a teams demeanor. Hasek and Roy have let in just as many weak goals as Brodeur. Hasek has probably let in even weaker but he's probably made bigger saves.

Easy to say hard to prove with Hasek/Esche on the Devils and Brodeur on Carolina.

You throw Keith Primeau on the Devils and the Devil's advance.

Easy to say hard to prove I know.

Last year's playoffs was not the best for Brodeur I know but the fact that he's goaltended more games in the past decade than any other goalie might have something to do with it. Or maybe it was their D with no size.

What I do know is Brodeur is racking up accomplishments left and right not because he is an above average goalie on elite teams its because he is an elite goalie on elite teams otherwise his luck woulda run out long ago.

 

[Dantonius]

And the Czechs defense still let up 16 fewer shots...they played solidly despite the weak goals given up by their goalie.

Easy to say hard to prove about Brodeur...

Throw Hasek on the Devils during the mid 90s and the Devils get 5 Cups and are a true dynasty.

Throw Brodeur on the Hurricanes and we won't be talking about him right now...

Brodeur has let in many shakey goals in his career....take last season's playoffs. Put Esche on the Devils and they make it to the next round instead of the Flyers.

Oh, look at the new theory...place <x> on another team and he would have been better or worse. Guess what? It didn't happen, so you're wrong. Brodeur and his 3 (and still counting!) Cups and 400+ wins (around 80-85 more than Roy had around the same time in his career) are making you look biased, though. Thanks for the 5 Cups laugh, too...since Hasek would never have lasted in NJ with his ego and blatant arrogance in the first place. But that's fine, because you showed us just how much you know about Brodeur and the Devils.

 

[Dantonius]

I'm not going to start this argument again. But I disagree completely. Again this past game showed how much Brodeur's puckhandling, rebound control, and ability to make a big save at the right time (3 categories I think he is the best all-time at)add to a teams demeanor. Hasek and Roy have let in just as many weak goals as Brodeur. Hasek has probably let in even weaker but he's probably made bigger saves.

Easy to say hard to prove with Hasek/Esche on the Devils and Brodeur on Carolina.

You throw Keith Primeau on the Devils and the Devil's advance.

Easy to say hard to prove I know.

Last year's playoffs was not the best for Brodeur I know but the fact that he's goaltended more games in the past decade than any other goalie might have something to do with it. Or maybe it was their D with no size.

What I do know is Brodeur is racking up accomplishments left and right not because he is an above average goalie on elite teams its because he is an elite goalie on elite teams otherwise his luck woulda run out long ago.

Don't worry, he's just angered at how Brodeur is on pace to obliterate nearly every goaltending record that will have mattered...

EDIT: Another thing that people fail to realize is how EASY it is to list series that goaltenders lost or were outmatched in. How about everyone's precious Roy (losing to Belfour--two seasons in a row, Vernon, Fernandez, Hasek, et al.)? That's not to mention his Game 7 record (6-7, a sparkling 6-2 at home but an abysmal 0-5 on the road). I'm not bashing Roy, as I feel he's accomplished the most (thus far), but I'm simply pointing out that anyone can be a moron and rip on any goaltender.

 

[AGraveOne]

Don't worry, he's just angered at how Brodeur is on pace to obliterate nearly every goaltending record that will have mattered...

EDIT: Another thing that people fail to realize is how EASY it is to list series that goaltenders lost or were outmatched in. How about everyone's precious Roy (losing to Belfour--two seasons in a row, Vernon, Fernandez, Hasek, et al.)? That's not to mention his Game 7 record (6-7, a sparkling 6-2 at home but an abysmal 0-5 on the road). I'm not bashing Roy, as I feel he's accomplished the most (thus far), but I'm simply pointing out that anyone can be a moron and rip on any goaltender.

Or anyone can be a moron and overly praise their favorite goaltender. It goes both ways.

I don't hate Brodeur though. I think he is overrated by his fans and by most of the media so i voice my thoughts...i abstain a lot. But i knew as i watched that game (Czechs v Canada) that Luongo let in 3 goals and thus "Brodeur praise" would increase and that isn't fair. The Czechs created more scoring chances in that game than Brodeur had faced in any three games....

 

[Dantonius]

Or anyone can be a moron and overly praise their favorite goaltender. It goes both ways.

I don't hate Brodeur though. I think he is overrated by his fans and by most of the media so i voice my thoughts...i abstain a lot. But i knew as i watched that game (Czechs v Canada) that Luongo let in 3 goals and thus "Brodeur praise" would increase and that isn't fair. The Czechs created more scoring chances in that game than Brodeur had faced in any three games....

I agree about people being able to ridiculously praise their favorite netminder, but I saw just as many peeople (if not more) saying Brodeur would have lost the game or something ridiculous had he started in net. I wasn't bashing EITHER goaltender, but I think that it was unfair both ways.