Was Eric Lindros overhyped when drafted?

[Darz]

That's a tough question....I don't think it would be possible for a player to be more hyped coming into the NHL than Lindros was, but the hype for the most part was justified. His combination of skills and size was unparalleled. It would be interesting in such a player played in todays NHL, where the physical beatings he took would of been nothing like the ones he took in the 90's.

 

[bobholly39]

I think he was, what do you think? The hype this guy got when drafted was top 5 all time.

Saying the hype for Eric Lindros was top 5 of all-time is majorly underselling it. To me it was top 2 - possibly top 1 hype ever. Only Lemieux has an argument above (Crosby somewhat close behind, but behind imo).

Overhyped? I don't think so. He was the real deal. Doesn't mean he has to be a top 2 or top 5 player all-time for the hype to have been worth it.

I strongly oppose the opinion of some that think that with perfect health, Eric Lindros would be a top ~5-10 player of all-time. I think that's slightly too high for him. I think with perfect health, his ceiling is probably closer to top ~15-25. So, a tier below guys like Crosby/McDavid/Ovechkin/Jagr, but not far behind.

But - that's still a legitimate generational prospect/player, who is worthy of such hype.

 

[Rebels57]

I think he was, what do you think? The hype this guy got when drafted was top 5 all time.

And still to this day, he is one of the top 5 most talented forwards to ever play in the NHL.

 

[Rebels57]

Saying the hype for Eric Lindros was top 5 of all-time is majorly underselling it. To me it was top 2 - possibly top 1 hype ever. Only Lemieux has an argument above (Crosby somewhat close behind, but behind imo).

Overhyped? I don't think so. He was the real deal. Doesn't mean he has to be a top 2 or top 5 player all-time for the hype to have been worth it.

I strongly oppose the opinion of some that think that with perfect health, Eric Lindros would be a top ~5-10 player of all-time. I think that's slightly too high for him. I think with perfect health, his ceiling is probably closer to top ~15-25. So, a tier below guys like Crosby/McDavid/Ovechkin/Jagr, but not far behind.

But - that's still a legitimate generational prospect/player, who is worthy of such hype.

I feel like you didn't watch Lindros play in his early prime if you think this. He had a top 5 PPG of all-time after his 7th season and before injuries really started taking their toll. He was on par with Jagr offensively while also being a wrecking ball.

 

[Michael Farkas]

And still to this day, he is one of the top 5 most talented forwards to ever play in the NHL.

Just for context, who else is generally around this top 5 for you?

 

[JianYang]

I'm not a big fan of overrated/underrated debates.

But when lindros was healthy, he was definitely a unicorn. You could see why he came with the fanfare that he had at the time.

 

[JackSlater]

Saying the hype for Eric Lindros was top 5 of all-time is majorly underselling it. To me it was top 2 - possibly top 1 hype ever. Only Lemieux has an argument above (Crosby somewhat close behind, but behind imo).

Overhyped? I don't think so. He was the real deal. Doesn't mean he has to be a top 2 or top 5 player all-time for the hype to have been worth it.

I strongly oppose the opinion of some that think that with perfect health, Eric Lindros would be a top ~5-10 player of all-time. I think that's slightly too high for him. I think with perfect health, his ceiling is probably closer to top ~15-25. So, a tier below guys like Crosby/McDavid/Ovechkin/Jagr, but not far behind.

But - that's still a legitimate generational prospect/player, who is worthy of such hype.

We saw Lindros play at the same time Jagr, in no way would a fully healthy Lindros be a tier below Jagr. No one at the time would have thougt that until Lindros' health became a problem. The argument is particularly hard to take when it comes to Ovechkin. A person could question whether Lindros could remain fully healthy but he's obviously not a tier below those guys.

 

[MadLuke]

his ceiling is probably closer to top ~15-25. So, a tier below guys like Crosby/McDavid/Ovechkin/Jagr,

Maybe could see the argument for McDavid, but the other 3 and Lindros, feel like a group with a very similar ceiling and fill revisionist a bit to put Jagr above, did not feel like that at all at the time. I can also see any of them being argued above Lindros, but a full tier above ?

Jagr-Lindros needed a tie breaker to split the Art Ross between the 2.

Before march 7, 1998, (Kasparaitis big hit)

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Lindros was scoring at 93% Jagr rate, Jagr played with a playmaker like Francis and with Mario from time to time, Leclair was perfect for Lindros, so he was not to take pity on, but how they played-coached-teammates it was hard to beat Jagr situation some of those seasons, that mostly pre Constantine games we are talking about and before Francis goes back to the Whalers.

 

[carjackmalone]

The only over hyped thing about Lindros is was the club he got arrested in for a bar fight koo koo Bananas.

What a dump

 

[Hoochi Papa]

He had the mold of a perfect hockey player. Highly skilled individual hidden inside a panzer wagon on skates. At his peak he was truly a great player but the alternative reality what-if Lindros could be top-3 of all time.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Let's put it this way, you know how there's an era in the NHL called the "Dead Puck Era" which was a product of teams loading up on size and physicality, and playing a heavy obstruction (clutch and grab) style of game? That entire era was set off by the emergence of Eric Lindros. He delivered on every bit of the hype and every team wanted an answer to him and a way to stop him. Only a handful of players have ever single-handedly changed the way the league plays and this guy was one of them.

 

[Finster8]

Eric came up thru Junior and was at an early age a big strong guy who could skate, shoot, hit, fight, born leader, size he had it all. IMO to this day he was in his own category.
Due to the aggressive nature he put himself at risk. When you play as hard and physical you get it back. He played when fighting was still OK and everyone had a couple bonafide goons. Eric would take on all comers and arguably the strongest guy in the league didn’t mean he was the toughest.
With the skill set he could have just stayed disciplined enough from laying the big hits and concentrate on putting the puck in the net. Their was no taming this guy he loved to hit and drive to the net. Which would lead to his demise. To many concussions just like his brother but all in all he was one of the most entertaining players to watch because of his diversity.

 

[Jumptheshark]

one word injuries

 

[Boxscore]

Lindros, overhyped? Absolutely not. As a man-child, he lived up to his billing in the Canada Cup as he did from day one in the NHL. Let's not forget that the Flyers emptied the farm to get him, so he was coming to a team with two high-quality players -- Mark Recchi and Rod Brind'Amour -- and a ho-hum collection of flotsam and jetsam. Eric carried those teams early and, at his best, he was a package unlike anything I've seen before... or since.

The dude was 6-5, 240 and could release the puck like Matthews / Laine, and had a short windup slapper better than anyone I've seen, due to his insane power. I remember being at a game in the Spectrum, about 2 rows from the glass, and watching Lindros take a one-handed backhand that whizzed by the net and hit the boards as hard as most NHL wrist shots. He was a madman. He was the most physically punishing forward I've ever seen by a mile and he could drop the mitts with anyone. His fight card included a draw with Marty McSorley and a win over Chris Simon. To put that in perspective today: it would be like Ovechkin duking it out with Matt Rempe and Ryan Reaves and edging them or holding his own.

Lindros really could do it all... except keep his head up and avoid injury. At his best, he was among the handful of demigods who would strike the fear of God into grown men among NHL royalty. Gretz, Mario, and McDavid would / will slaughter you with production and drop 5-6 points any given night. Eric would take your soul before scoring 2 goals and an apple or two.

I believe that those who unfortunately missed Lindros during his day don't fully understand how talented and dominant he was. People call Matty Mouthpiece a unicorn today. Well, Eric had a solid 3 inches and about 40 pounds on Tkachuk, was far meaner, hit way harder, shot harder, and would attack people in the offensive zone like they owed him money. His hit on Andreas Dackell would land him a prison sentence the way the game is being officiated today.

 

[VanIslander]

The Lindros draft:

1st rounders Forsberg, Niedermayer, Kovalev, Naslund...

I had Lindros as not higher than 4th (i was 22 years old at the time) and worried about his head down play - he bullied youth hockey but the NHL has a lot of tough guys, and indeed, he didn't change to adapt: he looks at the puck when rushing instead of heads-up peripheral playing the puck.

Foppa & Kovy were overworldly, one ironically feared to be injury-liable (he wasn't) due to his physical play and the other questioned for his grit, which, well, sometimes did play out.

Nieds was a can't-miss prospect knocked for his position (the league was forward happy - the year before: Owen Nolan, Jagr,) and his physicality (despite his clear positional stellar movements - he was considered underwhelming physically). Nieds should have been drafted first, though Forsberg proved to be the best of the lot.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

He was a madman. He was the most physically punishing forward I've ever seen by a mile and he could drop the mitts with anyone. His fight card included a draw with Marty McSorley and a win over Chris Simon. To put that in perspective today: it would be like Ovechkin duking it out with Matt Rempe and Ryan Reaves and edging them or holding his own.

Ovi vs Rempe... my money is on Ovi. Rempe may turn out to be a great fighter but he has a long way to go before he’s in the same class as McSorley and Simon. ATM he doesn't do a good job of protecting himself, or using his length to his advantage.. I think he'd be in big trouble vs Ovechkin.

 

[NyQuil]

I was a kid and Oshawa coming to town was a big event.

The Ottawa Civic Centre would be sold out and the crowd would heckle and boo him all game.

When he left the dressing room to get to the bus, I managed to sneak under the arms of his security detail and got a scribbled autograph on my Score Future Superstar Rookie Card.

They literally had to shove through the crowd like the Secret Service.

I remember feeling a bit sorry for him - even after participating in the crowd shenanigans because the attention was absolutely insane.

I haven’t seen anything quite like it, and I even saw Wayne Gretzky at a mall in the 80s. It’s the most hype I’ve seen before or since for a hockey player.

Later, I hung around and got Dale Craigwell and Fred Brathwaite’s autographs as they strolled out later.

I asked them what their favourite NHL team was and they both said Rangers, to my pleasant surprise.

I’d forgotten that I was wearing a NY Rangers baseball cap.

 

[Crosby2010]

Just to compare someone recent like Bedard, things look like this:

Their last years in junior before the draft:
Lindros - 149 points in 57 games
Bedard - 143 points in 57 games
(Both scored 71 goals)

Their WJC in their draft year:
Lindros - 17 points in 7 games
Bedard - 23 points in 7 games

Playoffs in their draft year
Lindros - 38 points in 16 games
Bedard - 20 points in 7 games

No matter how you spin it, there is absolutely no way you can blame either one of them for their team not winning the Memorial Cup that year (Lindros won his in 1990 instead). With those numbers they could have driven over the coaches dog in the driveway and you still can't blame them for anything, that is just simply too great of numbers for their teams.

So you can throw in the fact that Bedard didn't play Russia in the WJC and did do a lot of beating up on some weaker teams, but there is no denying both put up spectacular numbers. Both came through in the clutch, Bedard probably was more of a guy that caused Canada to win based on him carrying them than Lindros. But that's probably because they built their roster around hoping Bedard was going to carry them.

Lastly, the 1991 Canada Cup. Lindros had 5 points in 8 games and was 18 and never played an NHL game yet. Throw in his physical game and I honestly think it is a cakewalk for Lindros as to who was thought to be the better prospect. And you can throw Crosby or McDavid in that mix too. Lindros wasn't the talented magician with his stick like the other ones, but he just scored by powering through and going through a wall. He had a monster shot, he still had great hockey IQ and he was intimidating out there. He scared you as much when he didn't have the puck. It is hard to imagine someone being that physical and that offensively talented but he was, and the hype was real. I don't think anyone thought he would score as much as Mario or Gretzky did in their primes, but he was the "Next One" for a reason. Even in 1991 Gretzky was still the engine on the Canada Cup team and had 163 points the year before. Mario won the Cup with a 44 point playoff. I honestly don't think Lindros was expected to equal that offensively, but it was the idea that he could be a 100+ point guy and play perhaps the most physical game in the NHL at the same time. So yeah, if he kept his head up, he's maybe a top 5 player of all time. That's no hype.

And it wasn't just Stevens in 2000 nailing him. Darius K. nailed him in 1998 pretty bad. Hal Gill of all people hit him hard and stood him up once. Both times he was not looking up. So he had some cracks in the armour long before Stevens popped him. If you ever want to see the real Lindros then ignore the 2000-'07 version. That wasn't him. The 1992-'00 version was him, and I will say that the 1994-'97 version is the one I want to remember him by.

 

[daver]

Maybe could see the argument for McDavid, but the other 3 and Lindros, feel like a group with a very similar ceiling and fill revisionist a bit to put Jagr above, did not feel like that at all at the time. I can also see any of them being argued above Lindros, but a full tier above ?

Jagr-Lindros needed a tie breaker to split the Art Ross between the 2.

Before march 7, 1998, (Kasparaitis big hit)

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Lindros was scoring at 93% Jagr rate, Jagr played with a playmaker like Francis and with Mario from time to time, Leclair was perfect for Lindros, so he was not to take pity on, but how they played-coached-teammates it was hard to beat Jagr situation some of those seasons, that mostly pre Constantine games we are talking about and before Francis goes back to the Whalers.

But Jagr took it up a notch, sans Mario, over the next two seasons, maybe not a full tier, but a clear notch:

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He separated himself from the pack more than he, and Lindros, had done from '94 to March, '98, with arguably a worse supporting cast.

Does Lindros also take it up a notch in the, frankly speaking, unreasonable scenario that he stays healthy? It is more reasonable, IMO, to think that Lindros has physically matured at an early age, and relied on that physicality to generate offense moreso than his peers, so that he had hit his offensive ceiling by age 24/25, the age when players have historically hit their peaks.

It is also reasonable to believe that Jagr's peak was a bit late, as was his prime due to team situation, culture and maturity.

Just to compare someone recent like Bedard, things look like this:

Their last years in junior before the draft:
Lindros - 149 points in 57 games
Bedard - 143 points in 57 games
(Both scored 71 goals)

This is not very representative of their offensive prowess. Bedard was significantly ahead of the pack in the W than Lindros was in the O. Bedard was closer to Crosby, and a bit ahead of McDavid, than he was to Lindros.

 

[daver]

Putting him on par with Mario/Wayne was overhyping, he was never as good offensively as they were in juniors.

A "Gordie Howe on steroids" or a "better Mark Messier" was more reasonable.

 

[BraveCanadian]

No he was the real deal

 

[MadLuke]

But Jagr took it up a notch, sans Mario, over the next two seasons, maybe not a full tier, but a clear notch:

He separated himself from the pack more than he, and Lindros, had done from '94 to March, '98, with arguably a worse supporting cast.

While true, there always a bit of was the competition got worst or Jagr got better, Sakic-Alfredsson also by moment felt like they were getting better as they were getting older.

That late 90s jagr probably does not separate himself from the pack in the early 90s vs prime Lemieux-Gretzky-Yzerman, would he have in the mid 90s vs old Lemieux, younger Jagr?

1996 Jagr scored 62 goals and 149 pts, it was not his peak relative to how he dominated his peers true, but it can be peers competition getting lower.

Steve Thomas best finish was at 35 years old in 1999, Mark Reechi in 2000 post 30, he was not better than in 1991, Gretzky-Hull/Aotes playing together was probably better competition than post injuries Kariya missing 8 games.

 

[JianYang]

Lindros, overhyped? Absolutely not. As a man-child, he lived up to his billing in the Canada Cup as he did from day one in the NHL. Let's not forget that the Flyers emptied the farm to get him, so he was coming to a team with two high-quality players -- Mark Recchi and Rod Brind'Amour -- and a ho-hum collection of flotsam and jetsam. Eric carried those teams early and, at his best, he was a package unlike anything I've seen before... or since.

The dude was 6-5, 240 and could release the puck like Matthews / Laine, and had a short windup slapper better than anyone I've seen, due to his insane power. I remember being at a game in the Spectrum, about 2 rows from the glass, and watching Lindros take a one-handed backhand that whizzed by the net and hit the boards as hard as most NHL wrist shots. He was a madman. He was the most physically punishing forward I've ever seen by a mile and he could drop the mitts with anyone. His fight card included a draw with Marty McSorley and a win over Chris Simon. To put that in perspective today: it would be like Ovechkin duking it out with Matt Rempe and Ryan Reaves and edging them or holding his own.

Lindros really could do it all... except keep his head up and avoid injury. At his best, he was among the handful of demigods who would strike the fear of God into grown men among NHL royalty. Gretz, Mario, and McDavid would / will slaughter you with production and drop 5-6 points any given night. Eric would take your soul before scoring 2 goals and an apple or two.

I believe that those who unfortunately missed Lindros during his day don't fully understand how talented and dominant he was. People call Matty Mouthpiece a unicorn today. Well, Eric had a solid 3 inches and about 40 pounds on Tkachuk, was far meaner, hit way harder, shot harder, and would attack people in the offensive zone like they owed him money. His hit on Andreas Dackell would land him a prison sentence the way the game is being officiated today.

Yeah, just to add to this, it was an era where there were alot of headhunters in the league and catching lindros would have been seen as a notch on the belt.

Guys like pilon, kasparitis, and ulanov were all over the league so it wasn't just Stevens.

it was a bad combo for a guy who kept his head down as often as lindros did.

 

[Boxscore]

Yeah, just to add to this, it was an era where there were alot of headhunters in the league and catching lindros would have been seen as a notch on the belt.

Guys like pilon, kasparitis, and ulanov were all over the league so it wasn't just Stevens.

it was a bad combo for a guy who kept his head down as often as lindros did.

Yep, all of them, and even clowns like Michel Petit. They all went big game hunting for Lindros. And some big dopes too like Cory Cross. I was at a game in Philly where he was tormenting Lindros... finally Eric picked up steam and destroyed him with a thunderous hit behind the net. It sounded like a car crash... snot flew out of Cory's nose and he slid down the glass and boards to his knees from the impact. It was awesome, lol.

 

[sr edler]

Kasparaitis most famous hit on Lindros wasn't even remotely close to head-hunting, it was a beautiful textbook body-check. You're allowed to body-check in hockey. Scott Stevens never threw beautiful body-checks, but Kasparaitis could and did. Yes, he had a pest element to his game, and as he was a Euro player it probably rubbed some NA people the wrong way.

If you want to see actual head-hunting, re-watch some of Michael Peca's worst hits (on Öhlund, for instance) or Mike Richards' on David Booth. That's actual head-hunting. Richards even publicly regretted that hit, which I guess is fairly rare (?).