SeanMoneyHands
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Was Eric Lindros overhyped when drafted?
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MadLuke
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By who ?
Considering the Rangers and Flyers offer, Keenan picking him up for team Canada in 1991, the media-general population hype matched the Hockey super "elites" at least I feel like.
Gut feeling he was probably not, if Forsberg does not explode (at the moment of the trade he was still you good regular top 5 of a draft prospect, not leading an adult team in the SEL in scoring and breaking world junior record Forsberg) it would have not been that good of a package and the Flyers would have won the trade cleanly (well the value of the cash money making this a bit hard to fully evaluate).
Considering the Rangers and Flyers offer, Keenan picking him up for team Canada in 1991, the media-general population hype matched the Hockey super "elites" at least I feel like.
Gut feeling he was probably not, if Forsberg does not explode (at the moment of the trade he was still you good regular top 5 of a draft prospect, not leading an adult team in the SEL in scoring and breaking world junior record Forsberg) it would have not been that good of a package and the Flyers would have won the trade cleanly (well the value of the cash money making this a bit hard to fully evaluate).
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Bear of Bad News
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It's easy to look back with 30+ years of hindsight and make that call.
He was appropriately hyped at the time.
He was appropriately hyped at the time.
GMR
Registered User
No.
He didn't play that many games in juniors but he evidently made an impression on scouts because of his size, skill, and style of play.
His first seven years in the league were very impressive. You can see why he was hyped. However, even those years he couldn't play a full schedule.
To say he was overhyped would mean the scouts should have predicted his body would break down quick.
He didn't play that many games in juniors but he evidently made an impression on scouts because of his size, skill, and style of play.
His first seven years in the league were very impressive. You can see why he was hyped. However, even those years he couldn't play a full schedule.
To say he was overhyped would mean the scouts should have predicted his body would break down quick.
SomeDude
Registered User
The guy was an absolute monster. If he had learned to skate with his head up he would be one of the Mount Rushmore of NHL greats right now.
MadLuke
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One way to put it back in the day, fastest to reach 400 pts would have looked like this:
400 points
1. Wayne Gretzky 197 (27.12.1981)
2. Mario Lemieux 240
3. Peter Stastny 247
4. Eric Lindros 277
5. Mike Bossy 283* (3.2.1981)
6. Sidney Crosby 292
7. Bryan Trottier 296* (13.3.1979)
8. Kent Nilsson 298
9. Denis Savard 300
10. Jari Kurri 300
And that was from someone to be in the conversation to be the most imposing physical presence in the history of the league doing it..
Source: Fastest to reach milestones from 100 points to 2000 points
Look where the flyers were when they made that trade, what they gave and how long it took for them to reach the Finals, that delivering pretty much as expecting to that point and almost trivially by definition not have overpaid for him.
If people were serious about Gretzky-Howe in a bigger body or breaking Gretzky record and not just saying hyperbolic things to say them (and not just in a 1 in 1000 chance anything is possible...) than yes that was overhyped, but that not the price the Flyers paid for. The: he will be the most dominant player in the nhl and quick, that was about right.
400 points
1. Wayne Gretzky 197 (27.12.1981)
2. Mario Lemieux 240
3. Peter Stastny 247
4. Eric Lindros 277
5. Mike Bossy 283* (3.2.1981)
6. Sidney Crosby 292
7. Bryan Trottier 296* (13.3.1979)
8. Kent Nilsson 298
9. Denis Savard 300
10. Jari Kurri 300
And that was from someone to be in the conversation to be the most imposing physical presence in the history of the league doing it..
Source: Fastest to reach milestones from 100 points to 2000 points
Look where the flyers were when they made that trade, what they gave and how long it took for them to reach the Finals, that delivering pretty much as expecting to that point and almost trivially by definition not have overpaid for him.
If people were serious about Gretzky-Howe in a bigger body or breaking Gretzky record and not just saying hyperbolic things to say them (and not just in a 1 in 1000 chance anything is possible...) than yes that was overhyped, but that not the price the Flyers paid for. The: he will be the most dominant player in the nhl and quick, that was about right.
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Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Even if you see the limitations, which I think you can see a bit, you still have to make the pick and it's not close. So, he was a bit overhyped from the perspective of being one of the greatest of all time, but he was still a slam dunk 1oa...
bleedgreen
Registered User
He wasn’t remotely overhyped. He was a monster and he was just as dominating as they predicted, and he was that from the day he arrived in the NHL.
He couldn’t stay healthy in the end. I was not remotely a fan of the guy but he was just as they predicted he would be for a few years.
He couldn’t stay healthy in the end. I was not remotely a fan of the guy but he was just as they predicted he would be for a few years.
Staniowski
Registered User
Yes, a little overhyped, but not too much.
Going back to those years, the hype was incredible and, in some ways, unprecedented. The media environment and the interest in prospects had changed a lot even since 1984 (Lemieux). And the hype for Lindros was mostly deserved.
The hype surrounding Lindros was certainly unlike anything in the last 50 years. It was the only time in this period (at least), that a number of people in the hockey world were saying (before he was drafted) that this could be the best hockey player ever...it was never said about Gretzky or Lemieux or any of the guys since (although the competition is constantly changing).
I would say a little overhyped due to some issues with smarts and puck skills (say, in comparison to Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux). But his size, mobility, confidence, offensive talent, enabled him to dominate in his pre-NHL years. There weren't any big issues. He was a great prospect.
Lindros and Jagr (a year older) were the two best prospects since Lemieux, and they stood out even among all the incredible young talent of the late '80s and early '90s.
Going back to those years, the hype was incredible and, in some ways, unprecedented. The media environment and the interest in prospects had changed a lot even since 1984 (Lemieux). And the hype for Lindros was mostly deserved.
The hype surrounding Lindros was certainly unlike anything in the last 50 years. It was the only time in this period (at least), that a number of people in the hockey world were saying (before he was drafted) that this could be the best hockey player ever...it was never said about Gretzky or Lemieux or any of the guys since (although the competition is constantly changing).
I would say a little overhyped due to some issues with smarts and puck skills (say, in comparison to Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux). But his size, mobility, confidence, offensive talent, enabled him to dominate in his pre-NHL years. There weren't any big issues. He was a great prospect.
Lindros and Jagr (a year older) were the two best prospects since Lemieux, and they stood out even among all the incredible young talent of the late '80s and early '90s.
MadLuke
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Is that related with TSN launching the coverage of the wjc the lindros big year in 1991:
Column: The greatest hockey game ever in Saskatchewan?
Memories of the 1990-91 World Junior Hockey Championships held in Saskatoon and more.
www.sasktoday.ca
Or that TSN wjc took a while to become popular in reality ?
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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I said yes a little but I otherwise would have voted no. I found that Lindros' hype from more reputable sources was pretty accurate. Basically a better Messier, someone who could dominate physically while contending for the league lead in scoring... basically Lindros did that, with injury issues. But there were also Joe Blows who expected the best player ever, and that hype was beyond what Lindros was going to be able to do.
If Lindros could maintain his health to a reasonable degree he ends up as one of the best players ever, top 20 or maybe even top ten. Other than Lemieux I don't think any prospect was that projectable at that high of a level. Hard to overhype that.
If Lindros could maintain his health to a reasonable degree he ends up as one of the best players ever, top 20 or maybe even top ten. Other than Lemieux I don't think any prospect was that projectable at that high of a level. Hard to overhype that.
The Panther
Registered User
I agree with you on this. I think the hockey media had changed a lot since 1984. It seemed like, when Gretzky and Lemieux were coming up (out of WHA or out of QMJHL), the general thinking was: "Undistinguished-until-proven-great". Whereas by the time Lindros and Daigle and those guys were being hyped up by the hockey media, it had completely changed to "All-time-greats (unless-they-bust)".
I don't think anyone intelligent expected Lindros to be a Gretzky or Lemieux. There was more an expectation that he would be a Howe/Messier physical presence with a similar or slightly-higher offensive level. Which is basically what he was, when healthy.
Staniowski
Registered User
Cool, I attended that game. The tournament was round-robin then, with no playoffs.Is that related with TSN launching the coverage of the wjc the lindros big year in 1991:
Column: The greatest hockey game ever in Saskatchewan?
Memories of the 1990-91 World Junior Hockey Championships held in Saskatoon and more.
Or that TSN wjc took a while to become popular in reality ?
------------------
I think there was growing interest in prospects, including the WJC, through the '80s and into the '90s for multiple reasons. First, the NHL permanently moved to drafting 18 year olds in 1979 (which also roughly coincided with a big increase in hockey talent, plus the influx of Europeans to the NHL).
Then Canada began sending a real Team Canada continuously starting in the early '80s.
There was increasing knowledge of prospects due to Bob McKenzie at THN.
And Piestany, and then TSN, brought more interest.
I watched the WJC every year it was televised in the 1980s, but it wasn't popular then.
The 1991 tournament in Saskatoon was the first tournament in Canada post-Piestany, the first in Canada with TSN. Combine that with Lindros (and Bure), and it had a feeling of being much bigger than ever before
So, Lindros was a much better known prospect to the hockey world (and beyond) than Lemieux or Gretzky were.
buffalowing88
Registered User
I grew up in Buffalo but spent summers in Ontario until 98 and the highlight of each summer was reading about the next hyped prospect. We didn't get the full blitz of coverage.
Lindros was JUST before me but I would only say that every single prospect is overhyped right before the draft. My older cousins left me the Lindros editions and they were pretty positive. At the same time, I have a Radek Bonk cover of Hockey Digest where they compare him to some all-timers when he was all of 18.
Lindros was JUST before me but I would only say that every single prospect is overhyped right before the draft. My older cousins left me the Lindros editions and they were pretty positive. At the same time, I have a Radek Bonk cover of Hockey Digest where they compare him to some all-timers when he was all of 18.
Compared to some of the other players being over hyped? Lindros hype was fairly real and at the same level, he was billed as a superior Messier. Lindros showed enough in between injuries to show what he could have been if healthy for 10-15 years.
Daigle was over hyped, Linden was over hyped. Lindros was indeed something special and playing a giant in the OHL certainly helped that impression, winning a Junior gold and memorial cup helped too.
You had to be there, he was the best player, playing in the biggest junior league and close to Toronto. Maybe he was hyped unfairly, but not overly.
Daigle was over hyped, Linden was over hyped. Lindros was indeed something special and playing a giant in the OHL certainly helped that impression, winning a Junior gold and memorial cup helped too.
You had to be there, he was the best player, playing in the biggest junior league and close to Toronto. Maybe he was hyped unfairly, but not overly.
Hippasus
1,9,45,165,495,1287,
I didn't watch him in juniors, but I recall some poster(s) saying that he used to skate with the puck through the neutral zone with his head down then as well. If so, that might be some grounds for saying he was overhyped.
The Panther
Registered User
In my opinion, Lindros and Bobby Orr's careers are much more similar than some would like to admit. Both were stars in the OHL, were hyped as teens, played internationally high-profile games before being in the NHL, and joined bad non-playoff teams as teenagers. Also, both were injured frequently -- in Orr's case, seldom enough to pull him out of the lineup until he was 27... and then he basically never played again. In Lindros's case, he was injured every season in varying degrees, usually playing about 75-80% of each season, but never a whole one, during his Phlly years. Like Orr, age 27 was when he hit a wall (last game for Philly) and he was never elite again (though at least he had one more good season with another team, NYR in 2001-02).
Lindros played 100 more NHL games than Orr, but few remember his final 200 or so. Orr of course won 2 Cups, but if anything his team underperformed and probably should have won 3 or 4 (this is what happens with party-boys like Sanderson and Esposito on the club). Lindros carried the Flyers to the Final once in a very competitive era, and he didn't face an expansion team in the Finals (as the Bruins did in 1970).
Both players tilted the ice to a great degree in their primes -- Orr maybe more than any player in history, though of course this has to be put in context of the era he played in and in consideration of some of the competition. But he was the most "ice dominant" player of his era for sure, and Lindros may have been the same -- at least among forwards -- from 1994 to 1999, anyway.
A lot of how scaled-down Lindros's legacy became is, of course, the fault of him and his parents. Had he simply accepted being drafted by Quebec, he likely wins Cups there and/or in Colorado, likely doesn't have to carry as much of a load so doesn't get injured as much, and likely has a GM that actually supports him when he's almost fatally injured.
Lindros played 100 more NHL games than Orr, but few remember his final 200 or so. Orr of course won 2 Cups, but if anything his team underperformed and probably should have won 3 or 4 (this is what happens with party-boys like Sanderson and Esposito on the club). Lindros carried the Flyers to the Final once in a very competitive era, and he didn't face an expansion team in the Finals (as the Bruins did in 1970).
Both players tilted the ice to a great degree in their primes -- Orr maybe more than any player in history, though of course this has to be put in context of the era he played in and in consideration of some of the competition. But he was the most "ice dominant" player of his era for sure, and Lindros may have been the same -- at least among forwards -- from 1994 to 1999, anyway.
A lot of how scaled-down Lindros's legacy became is, of course, the fault of him and his parents. Had he simply accepted being drafted by Quebec, he likely wins Cups there and/or in Colorado, likely doesn't have to carry as much of a load so doesn't get injured as much, and likely has a GM that actually supports him when he's almost fatally injured.
MarkusKetterer
Shoulda got one game in
87 points and 208(!!) penalty minutes as a 17 year old in arguably the second best league would create a lot of hype.
Now I wish I could see box scores of that season to know why Bonk got that many PIMs.
Hobnobs
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Bonk came over and played very physical. Kinda like a kid trying to prove something. Take that and add to the fact that Lyndon Byers took Bonk under his wing and yeah.
Most like some misconducts for crosschecks, unsportmenlike and the like. The IHL was also a pretty nasty league so a lot of line brawls where they threw everybody on the ice out including Bonk.
Video Nasty
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Not at all. Forty years have passed since Lemieux was drafted, and I think Lindros is still among the top 5 most talented forwards drafted since (in order of draft year Jagr, Crosby, Ovechkin, and McDavid are the only ones better or his equal). It simply didn't pan out in the long run, but he was NHL ready, made an immediate impact, and was living up to the hype a handful of seasons in. With just seven seasons in the books, The Hockey News ranked him the 54th greatest player up to that point in time. It wasn't the end all, be all, but it meant a lot more back then, and his trajectory was excellent.
And then everything disintegrated. The two concussions and a misdiagnosed rib injury that was really a collapsed lung that could have led to his death. Three (or was it four more concussions) throughout the entire 1999-2000 regular season and playoffs, and all the drama caused by an inept Flyers organization killed how effective he would be for the rest of his career.
He was worthy of the hype. Shame we (and himself of course) couldn't see his career unfold without the issues.
And then everything disintegrated. The two concussions and a misdiagnosed rib injury that was really a collapsed lung that could have led to his death. Three (or was it four more concussions) throughout the entire 1999-2000 regular season and playoffs, and all the drama caused by an inept Flyers organization killed how effective he would be for the rest of his career.
He was worthy of the hype. Shame we (and himself of course) couldn't see his career unfold without the issues.
Staniowski
Registered User
It was 4 1/2 seasons in the books; the voting occurred during the '96-'97 regular season, Lindros' 5th NHL season.
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He actually got in fights in the OHL as I recall. For a guy projected as a superstar, he played a more physical game than most other guys projected that way, and that felt like part of his eventual downfall. Plus headshots were fair play when he broke into the league.
Video Nasty
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Wow, even more impressive. No idea why I thought it was seven. I must have been thinking about his concussions at this point.
frisco
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame...
If you measure hype before reaching the NHL vs. actual NHL career, it is a great chasm between the two for Lindros, maybe more so than any player. The fact that he still made the Hall Of Fame despite the chasm says a lot about how good Lindros was, but also how much hype he had. Injuries are mostly to blame, obviously.
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