Confirmed with Link: Walman and a 2nd Round Pick traded to SJ

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Help me understand why GMs have to be totally disclose and divulge their plans and thoughts on players before trading them. Other than injuries, why do GMs have to discuss with other GMs why they’re trading players or their locker room fits or issues? Isn’t that what scouts are for? Couldn’t that open up GMs to being accused of “blackballing “ players?

Imagine if your ability to do your job relied upon dealing with the same 31 people and companies and that's it. There is never an option to go anywhere else.

They may not get into the in-depth nitty gritty about a player but if a GM trades a problematic player and misleads the other GM, that's not gonna be good for business going forward. Not only with the GM he screwed over but all the other ones that will hear about it.

 

[izlez]

There aren't many secrets to hide anymore. Think about all of the players, coaches, managers, team personnel, agents, advisors, etc. that have come in contact with this kid since he was 18. I would agree that some have more tolerance for certain behavior than others or believe that a player has the ability to change in a different environment. Those, however, are situations where known risk is being assumed. My money says the book was out on Walman, It was just a question of whether someone else was going to put up with what Detroit would not.

For the record I think the exact same thing was true of Vrana and that the Wings knew what they were getting into when they took him back.

Doesn't everyone knowing everything about him since he was 18 take us back to re-signing him being a mistake?

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Doesn't everyone knowing everything about him since he was 18 take us back to re-signing him being a mistake?

No, for reasons stated in previous posts. The GM only interested in doing something that has no risk is going to end up doing nothing.

 

[sepster]

Doesn't everyone knowing everything about him since he was 18 take us back to re-signing him being a mistake?

Not necessarily.

Yzerman could very well have told Walman he likes his ability and what he can bring to the team, but you have these issues that need to be worked out. Walman then tells Mr. Yzerman that he understands and is on board and all in.
Yzerman is willing to take that chance because, if it works out, the payoff is well worth it.
Then, in reality, Walman doesn't follow through on his end. Yzerman thinks, "that sonovabirtch hood-winked me!!" and ships him out.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Doesn't everyone knowing everything about him since he was 18 take us back to re-signing him being a mistake?

Yzerman has been trying to improve the team through all methods available, which includes taking relatively low risk gambles on players with some question marks.

 

[Retire91]

Don't. I'm not in the US.

Yes, but he failed to see it before he gave him a raise. That happened. Are we not at the point where we can bitch about what Yzerman did yet?

The whinging is more like its over as if this were a trend. Every GM is going to have off decisions here and there. If you built a house, would there not be a single thing that went wrong? The level of whining is not in correlation with the things that have not gone right IMO

I choose not to gripe about the GM that has made the team better every single season he has been here. There is a simple explanation, singing him felt to Yzerman like the right thing for the organization at the time, trading him felt like the right thing for the organization at the time. There is a difference between incompetency and things that just didn't work out. I like a GM that takes calculated risks and moves on when they don't work out.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Doesn't everyone knowing everything about him since he was 18 take us back to re-signing him being a mistake?

It certainly adds to the risk of re-signing him. I won't fight you on that.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

With the way we talk about Walman, it feels like we traded Lucas Raymond and a 1st for the corpse of Corey Perry lmfao

I feel like we would be complaining about Walman's own shortcomings like we do with all of our other defenseman not named Moritz or Simon...

Can't wait until this saga dies

 

[Konnan511]

Imagine if your ability to do your job relied upon dealing with the same 31 people and companies and that's it. There is never an option to go anywhere else.

They may not get into the in-depth nitty gritty about a player but if a GM trades a problematic player and misleads the other GM, that's not gonna be good for business going forward. Not only with the GM he screwed over but all the other ones that will hear about it.

Did you say Griddy?

 

[Peter Tosh]

Would be interesting to learn more about what the flaws are and how they effect the team. Seems like he’s got a special personality and really likes attention

 

[Juha]

Oh, I don't know why but, I am strangely enough getting a ”Franzen vs Hossa” vibe from all of this. Like this could go on for the next decade. ”Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild? -Well remember the Walman trade, that was the start of it...” etc...





P.S. Mind you, I am not saying that people shouldn't discuss this, far from it. I am just personally on some level weirdly amused by all of this. Yes, I know. I am weird.

 

[Henkka]

- Yzerman was ready to pay to get rid of Vrana
- Yzerman was ready to pay to get rid of Walman.

The message can't be any more clear. Team, team policy and lockerroom example will come first on the rise on the top. Without that the rise will never happen. All bobproberts doing crazy things will be traded. Because those will hurt the team.

Yzerman will not do 100% losing trades just for fun or being stupid. There are MAJOR FACTORS behind them. Anyone with brains can understand it and read between the lines.

 

[HisNoodliness]

- Yzerman was ready to pay to get rid of Vrana
- Yzerman was ready to pay to get rid of Walman.

The message can't be any more clear. Team, team policy and lockerroom example will come first on the rise on the top. Without that the rise will never happen. All bobproberts doing crazy things will be traded. Because those will hurt the team.

Yzerman will not do 100% losing trades just for fun or being stupid. There are MAJOR FACTORS behind them. Anyone with brains can understand it and read between the lines.

I just don't see why this policy doesn't extend to people that are bad at hockey. You can come here and be terrible, no consequences, no worries, and no problem. If you're too quiet at his weekend barbecue, you're off the team immediately.

 

[19 for president]

I think the odd part about the Walman trade wasn't the fact that he was traded but that he was dumped without being waived first and cost a 2nd to do so.

Vrana after a 50% retention cost just under what Walman made and I believe had a year left at the full cap hit 5 mil +, and he only cost a 7th to deal.

Heck even look at the way he handled Mantha and AA. Stevie will definitely ship people out if he doesn't feel like they are a personality fit but the Walman deal still stands out.

I think there had to be another reason why he dealt him in the fashion he did, because I doubt he was as much of a distraction/mess as Vrana was and Stevie held him until he found a team willing to take a flyer. I think he must have had a deal lined up that fell through (Trouba?) where he needed that cap space immediately.

While we could go over the cap 10% in the off season I could see him trying to ensure we had enough space to negate the risk of offer sheets to Seider/ Ray. Plus if you wait to deal guys until you need the cap space usually teams will charge you more to get players off the books.

 

[Realgud]

The biggest red flag about Walman to me was on that youtube video on the Red Wings channel when he boasted about being a PC gamer but was playing Fortnite... using a controller... on a PC...

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

I just don't see why this policy doesn't extend to people that are bad at hockey. You can come here and be terrible, no consequences, no worries, and no problem. If you're too quiet at his weekend barbecue, you're off the team immediately.

The narrative about apparent lack of consequences for veterans' disappointing performance happens with every team and a complaint on every team board. There's only so many consequences possible because those guys have to play, You might have one extra player for defense and forward groups, you can't scratch more than one guy from each, and how much of an effect would it have anyway on a veteran who is playing much the same way he has for his entire career but is just a bad fit or in a slump?

There probably are consequences that we don't see reflected in lineup and usage choices. There will be discussions with coaches, peer pressure from teammates, extra time reviewing film, maybe even a visit to a sports psychologist. The team isn't going to share the details of any of that. At the end of the day though there is no choice but to keep them in the lineup and give them every opportunity to do what they were signed to do, until it becomes obvious they can't contribute and are waived, traded or exiled to the pressbox. There were consequences last season for Kostin and Holl, it just took a while. There was a consequence for Copp, too, when he was called out after a game by Lalonde, and some people thought that was the wrong thing to do anyway.

As for Walman, we can be sure it was more than him being a loner at team barbecues.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Still such a headscratcher

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Still such a headscratcher

How? He’s been benched for behavioral issues multiple times this year on his new team lol clearly something was wrong and It opens a spot for Ed

 

[RabidBadger]

Great thread! It's been like reading the first three pages 16 times on repeat.

 

[Konnan511]

How? He’s been benched for behavioral issues multiple times this year on his new team lol clearly something was wrong and It opens a spot for Ed

Is it confirmed it's for behavioral issues or are these rumors you are propagating?

 

[Hobnobs]

How? He’s been benched for behavioral issues multiple times this year on his new team lol clearly something was wrong and It opens a spot for Ed

No, he's been scratched one time and then missed time with a upper body injury.

 

[FlyguyOX]

How? He’s been benched for behavioral issues multiple times this year on his new team lol clearly something was wrong and It opens a spot for Ed

Once for a miscommunication. Otherwise he was hurt. He is a major upgrade over everyone but Ed and Mo. That's not even debatable.

 

[Hobnobs]

Once for a miscommunication. Otherwise he was hurt. He is a major upgrade over everyone but Ed and Mo. That's not even debatable.

Atm, yes but it should be noted that Walman seems to be a "got us in the first half, ngl"-type of player who massively declines as the season progresses like he did with Red Wings last year.