Confirmed with Link: Walman and a 2nd Round Pick traded to SJ

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Calling this trade bad, as it stands, is an understatement. It's horrible. It makes Yzerman look like an idiot and a laughing stock. Most of those "defending" Stevie are simply pointing out that there MUST be more to this, which seems a fairly reasonable take. I don't think it's trolling to discuss or express how bad and how stupid this trade looks and follow that with the shared caveat that it's an opinion that can quickly change when (or if) the other pieces fall into place.

Being told to wait for those other pieces to fall before discussing this is silly. The trade just happened and people are going to react to what knowledge they have. Most expect there's more to this, but until that is shared, I have no problem with people flaming this trade based on the optics on hand or the timing.

 

[Bench]

Calling this trade bad, as it stands, is an understatement. It's horrible. It makes Yzerman look like an idiot and a laughing stock.

Losing pick #53 to clear cap for the next 2 years for a healthy scratch is "a laughing stock"?

Like I get calling it bad value, and I think criticizing Yzerman for having too many mediocre defenders on multi-year deals is the real play here, but guys... it's pick #53. We gotta calm down a bit about what was lost here.

In a vacuum, this is a poor deal. Idiot, horrible, laughing stock? This is the hyperbole I'm just so fatigued of on the internet.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Losing pick #53 to clear cap for the next 2 years for a healthy scratch is "a laughing stock"?

Like I get calling it bad value, and I think criticizing Yzerman for having too many mediocre defenders on multi-year deals is the real play here, but guys... it's pick #53. We gotta calm down a bit about what was lost here.

In a vacuum, this is a poor deal. Idiot, horrible, laughing stock? This is the hyperbole I'm just so fatigued of on the internet.

It’s a pretty major head scratcher though. I think if we’re being honest, if a San Jose fan came over a week ago and asked “hey would you guys give us a 2nd to eat Walman’s deal?” they would’ve been told that’s nonsensical. I don’t think Yzerman actually making that move makes it any less nonsensical.

I don’t want him fired. I’m very open to the possibility that the price was influenced by not public factors. I don’t think the deal wildly impacts the trajectory of the team. But honestly, it is a wild departure from the player’s perceived value and reaction around the league seems to support that. And for a team like Detroit who due to lack of lottery luck, has to win a lot of battles at the margins, this feels at first impression like a really unnecessary loss at the margins.

 

[DanielMarois]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806388732578484686

For those holding out hope about 14 being a future consideration

Maybe SJ is targeting Eiserman at #11 so they can own two Yzermans this week.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Losing pick #53 to clear cap for the next 2 years for a healthy scratch is "a laughing stock"?

Like I get calling it bad value, and I think criticizing Yzerman for having too many mediocre defenders on multi-year deals is the real play here, but guys... it's pick #53. We gotta calm down a bit about what was lost here.

In a vacuum, this is a poor deal. Idiot, horrible, laughing stock? This is the hyperbole I'm just so fatigued of on the internet.

Im sure you looked at this discussion on the trade boards. Stevie is being soundly laughed at and ridiculed. So, for now, it makes him look like a laughing stock. Not hyperbole. It's actually happening.

If the internet is so fatiguing, try stepping away more often. I know I don't spend much time here or invest enough to let it get to me. It's just a hockey discussion, if it's really causing you any kind of ********, you're probably better without it.

 

[izlez]

Losing pick #53 to clear cap for the next 2 years for a healthy scratch is "a laughing stock"?

Like I get calling it bad value, and I think criticizing Yzerman for having too many mediocre defenders on multi-year deals is the real play here, but guys... it's pick #53. We gotta calm down a bit about what was lost here.

In a vacuum, this is a poor deal. Idiot, horrible, laughing stock? This is the hyperbole I'm just so fatigued of on the internet.

We also lost Walman.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

It's the kind of decision making that should raise upper managements' eyebrows, and would be the kind of thing that is referenced if the team doesn't make the playoffs next year and Yzerman's other moves don't do well. No shit he wouldn't get fired just because of a single move.

No it shouldn’t.

At the end of the day, it was Andrew Gibson and Jake Walmart for Kiiskinen.

It’s a complete nothing burger of a transaction.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Losing pick #53 to clear cap for the next 2 years for a healthy scratch is "a laughing stock"?

Like I get calling it bad value, and I think criticizing Yzerman for having too many mediocre defenders on multi-year deals is the real play here, but guys... it's pick #53. We gotta calm down a bit about what was lost here.

In a vacuum, this is a poor deal. Idiot, horrible, laughing stock? This is the hyperbole I'm just so fatigued of on the internet.

It's not even about losing the pick, it's about being in the wrong category altogether. It's one thing to not get enough value back, it's completely another to give when you should be getting.

Like if I'm selling you a sandwich and somehow you end up with my money, something has gone very wrong. I wouldn't have that job as a sandwich artist very long, I assume.

Yup, no overreacting here.

EDIT: The Milbury name drop literally made me spit out my sandwich.... and it was a really good BBQ Pulled Pork sandwich too.

Did Milbury ever give up a 2nd round pick for no reason? I can't look it up right now. I'm at work. (Not as a sandwich artist, but sometimes that sounds more fulfilling.)

 

[ricky0034]

I kinda hope we never find out more about this deal just for the sheer hilarity of the game of telephone that would ensue among fans where people would be convinced in a decade that the future considerations is a pick swap the next time San Jose wins the 1st overall or something completely absurd like that

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Im sure you looked at this discussion on the trade boards. Stevie is being soundly laughed at and ridiculed. So, for now, it makes him look like a laughing stock. Not hyperbole. It's actually happening.

If the internet is so fatiguing, try stepping away more often. I know I don't spend much time here or invest enough to let it get to me. It's just a hockey discussion, if it's really causing you any kind of anguish, you're probably better without it.

Guess what. People on the trade boards? They’re pretty uniformly f***ing stupid. There is a reason why HFboards has a ludicrous reputation beyond this forum.

and I get what Bench is saying… it’s not even a high level of investment, it’s that every single instance of discussion is met with one-sided lunacy (good or bad, agree or disagree).

It’s such so that when an actual interesting trade offer or discussion comes, nobody cares because they’re stuck on their pet players. Like Jake Walman. He’s literally a 20 point defenseman who isn’t great at defense.

Edit: a forced refresh made it go weird here

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Guess what. People on the trade boards? They’re pretty uniformly f***ing stupid. There is a reason why HFboards has a ludicrous reputation beyond this forum.

and I get what Bench is saying… it’s not even a high level of investment, it’s that every single instance of discussion is met with one-sided lunacy (good or bad, agree or disagree).

It’s such so that when an actual interesting trade offer or discussion comes, nobody cares because they’re stuck on their pet players. Like Jake Walman. He’s literally a 20 point defenseman who isn’t great at defense.

Edit: a forced refresh made it go weird here

Honestly, who cares about Walman? He had a pretty terrible year. And a 2nd rounder? Meh, not a big deal. I just want to know if Yzerman has had a stroke or something.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

It's not even about losing the pick, it's about being in the wrong category altogether. It's one thing to not get enough value back, it's completely another to give when you should be getting.

Like if I'm selling you a sandwich and somehow you end up with my money, something has gone very wrong. I wouldn't have that job as a sandwich artist very long, I assume.


Did Milbury ever give up a 2nd round pick for no reason? I can't look it up right now. I'm at work. (Not as a sandwich artist, but sometimes that sounds more fulfilling.)

Why should we be getting? Jake Walman was a long term healthy scratch to end 2023-24 who was making 3.4m for a couple more years.

That’s the problem here. Everyone just assumes that Walman has value because he played okay with Seider the year prior.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Why should we be getting? Jake Walman was a long term healthy scratch to end 2023-24 who was making 3.4m for a couple more years.

That’s the problem here. Everyone just assumes that Walman has value because he played okay with Seider the year prior.

The leaguewide reaction seems to be that he could have received something for Walman. Hence all the teams who would have taken that trade if they had known about it. So the question is, why didn't they know? Why didn't Yzerman shop around?

Also, this:

The other puzzling thing is that Yzerman apparently didn’t shop Walman around a ton. Based off some of my conversations and reading reports from others, there were multiple teams that would have been interested in actually trading something for Walman.

In fact, I’ve heard San Jose was happily stunned when Yzerman simply didn’t ask for a return and offered a second-round pick sweetener.

What I've learned, if anything, about the Jake Walman trade

Two days after the deal we are still trying to figure out exactly what happened.

www.shapshotshockey.com

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Calling this trade bad, as it stands, is an understatement. It's horrible. It makes Yzerman look like an idiot and a laughing stock. Most of those "defending" Stevie are simply pointing out that there MUST be more to this, which seems a fairly reasonable take. I don't think it's trolling to discuss or express how bad and how stupid this trade looks and follow that with the shared caveat that it's an opinion that can quickly change when (or if) the other pieces fall into place.

Being told to wait for those other pieces to fall before discussing this is silly. The trade just happened and people are going to react to what knowledge they have. Most expect there's more to this, but until that is shared, I have no problem with people flaming this trade based on the optics on hand or the timing.

Why is it silly?

You even say that the highest likelihood is that Yzerman has something planned and that he didn’t make a dumb move to make a dumb move.

So why exactly would it be silly to wait a god damn week until FA starts to see… hey, maybe getting that couple million from trading Walman was worth it.

This move is so obviously predicating another move that it is ludicrous not to see what that second move is.

When a trade made by a known smart person looks really really f***ing stupid, it’s usually because they know more than you do. And that’s not saying “yzerman is a god and makes no mistakes”. That’s using common sense. In chess, you usually have to sacrifice a pawn or two to keep a knight alive. And sometimes, you bait with a rook or even a queen to get an advantage.

Until it’s proven that Yzerman’s brains are gone… I choose to believe that a guy who built a roster in Tampa that dominated the league for a decade has some idea of what he’s doing and will let the obvious move that needs to occur happen before I judge it

 

[ricky0034]

The leaguewide reaction seems to be that he could have received something for Walman. Hence all the teams who would have taken that trade if they had known about it. So the question is, why didn't they know? Why didn't Yzerman shop around?

Also, this:

What I've learned, if anything, about the Jake Walman trade

Two days after the deal we are still trying to figure out exactly what happened.

www.shapshotshockey.com

honestly this is just so funny to think about

like going to a restaurant and asking for the bill afterwards and being handed a wad of cash instead

 

[Bench]

Im sure you looked at this discussion on the trade boards. Stevie is being soundly laughed at and ridiculed. So, for now, it makes him look like a laughing stock. Not hyperbole. It's actually happening.

If the internet is so fatiguing, try stepping away more often. I know I don't spend much time here or invest enough to let it get to me. It's just a hockey discussion, if it's really causing you any kind of anguish, you're probably better without it.

Anguish? There you go again. Everything is dialed up. I said it's fatiguing having those discussions when people are using such dramatic language, not that I'm in anguish over the discussion. Good gravy.

And being dunked on by the masses on HFBoards isn't exactly my criteria for "not hyperbole." That's literally what this forum runs on.

The Panthers got "laughed at and ridiculed" for signing Bob to his contract but here we are in the future with a little perspective from Todd Howard.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Guess what. People on the trade boards? They’re pretty uniformly f***ing stupid. There is a reason why HFboards has a ludicrous reputation beyond this forum.

and I get what Bench is saying… it’s not even a high level of investment, it’s that every single instance of discussion is met with one-sided lunacy (good or bad, agree or disagree).

It’s such so that when an actual interesting trade offer or discussion comes, nobody cares because they’re stuck on their pet players. Like Jake Walman. He’s literally a 20 point defenseman who isn’t great at defense.

Edit: a forced refresh made it go weird here

Lunacy? Okay, now who is being hyperbolic?
Of course every instance of discussion is met with such reactions... It's a fricking sports discussion forum.

Bottom line, it looks like a stupid trade. Until the rest of it unfolds, it's going to be panned as a stupid trade - not because Walman is my pet player or because i hate Steve Yzerman. Simply because it's a stupid looking trade right now. The senseless gifting of the second round pick is the problem, not moving on from Walman.

Suggesting I've descended into lunacy or that my comment ruined the internet for someone who read it is more over the top than anything I've said.

 

[better Red than Dead]

Im sure you looked at this discussion on the trade boards. Stevie is being soundly laughed at and ridiculed. So, for now, it makes him look like a laughing stock. Not hyperbole. It's actually happening.

If the internet is so fatiguing, try stepping away more often. I know I don't spend much time here or invest enough to let it get to me. It's just a hockey discussion, if it's really causing you any kind of anguish, you're probably better without it.

Again, when did he become stupid? This was a guy who built Tampa, he built the Team Canada rosters before and during that time. He’s known as secretive and stealthy. He’s also a tough negotiator, he has the reputation. All of a sudden he decides to be an idiot? If this move bring a us a goalie, a couple of top line forwards and maybe a top dman for Seider I’d say it’s worth it

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Why is it silly?

You even say that the highest likelihood is that Yzerman has something planned and that he didn’t make a dumb move to make a dumb move.

So why exactly would it be silly to wait a god damn week until FA starts to see… hey, maybe getting that couple million from trading Walman was worth it.

This move is so obviously predicating another move that it is ludicrous not to see what that second move is.

When a trade made by a known smart person looks really really f***ing stupid, it’s usually because they know more than you do. And that’s not saying “yzerman is a god and makes no mistakes”. That’s using common sense. In chess, you usually have to sacrifice a pawn or two to keep a knight alive. And sometimes, you bait with a rook or even a queen to get an advantage.

Until it’s proven that Yzerman’s brains are gone… I choose to believe that a guy who built a roster in Tampa that dominated the league for a decade has some idea of what he’s doing and will let the obvious move that needs to occur happen before I judge it

It's silly because this is a hockey discussion forum. Asking or expecting people to hold off a week to discuss something that just happened is silly.
When circumstances change or evolve, the discussion will change and evolve with it. No need for a gag order.

Again, when did he become stupid? This was a guy who built Tampa, he built the Team Canada rosters before and during that time. He’s known as secretive and stealthy. He’s also a tough negotiator, he has the reputation. All of a sudden he decides to be an idiot? If this move bring a us a goalie, a couple of top line forwards and maybe a top dman for Seider I’d say it’s worth it

I don't think he's stupid. This trade sure looks stupid right now. Thankfully, that could change really quickly.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

It's silly because this is a hockey discussion forum. Asking or expecting people to hold off a week to discuss something that just happened is silly.
When circumstances change or evolve, the discussion will change and evolve with it. No need for a gag order.

What discussion? It's a bad trade in terms of value. That's it. It's a bad trade in terms of value with what looks to be the purpose of clearing salary and getting rid of a player they'd been healthy scratching who was making 3.4M

The only interesting discussion point is "what will Detroit do with 3.4M more dollars and a need to replace a defenseman."

Like seriously, what's interesting about "They should have gotten something for Walman"... "well, they didn't." But they should have! But they didn't.

It's a stupid discussion that doesn't move any needle.

It's not saying "hold off a week" it's take into account in the discussion that Yzerman isn't a f***in idiot and generally speaking isn't going to make a move an idiot would.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Anguish? There you go again. Everything is dialed up. I said it's fatiguing having those discussions when people are using such dramatic language, not that I'm in anguish over the discussion. Good gravy.

And being dunked on by the masses on HFBoards isn't exactly my criteria for "not hyperbole." That's literally what this forum runs on.

The Panthers got "laughed at and ridiculed" for signing Bob to his contract but here we are in the future with a little perspective from Todd Howard.

After Starfield, I'm guessing it's all of Bethesda's competitors.

Like seriously, what's interesting about "They should have gotten something for Walman"... "well, they didn't." But they should have! But they didn't.

I'd assume the purpose of that conversation is to figure out exactly how much confidence we should have in Steve Yzerman as a GM going forward. It's a little premature for that, I'll agree, but this is a particularly weird trade.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Anguish? There you go again. Everything is dialed up. I said it's fatiguing having those discussions when people are using such dramatic language, not that I'm in anguish over the discussion. Good gravy.

And being dunked on by the masses on HFBoards isn't exactly my criteria for "not hyperbole." That's literally what this forum runs on.

The Panthers got "laughed at and ridiculed" for signing Bob to his contract but here we are in the future with a little perspective from Todd Howard.

I had already used fatigue. The writer in me made me choose another adjective. If anguish causes you any errr... fatigue, then I'll edit it out and replace it with a more appropriate word or just leave a blank.

 

[Rolo Tomassi]

If this wasn't a precursor to something bigger, I am officially OFF of the Yzerman bandwagon. I've been patiently waiting for things to play out, but giving away assets for nothing is not something I can get behind.

 

[Bench]

After Starfield, I'm guessing it's all of Bethesda's competitors.

I didn't enjoy Starfield but over 12 million people played it at launch, so I assume they still made a healthy return on investment. Todd has disappointed me one too many times but most studios would be thrilled with those numbers.

 

[izlez]

The Panthers got "laughed at and ridiculed" for signing Bob to his contract but here we are in the future with a little perspective from Todd Howard.

Bobrovsky resurrecting his career and being worth his contract is not the same thing.

Yzerman didn't get proper value for Walman TODAY. There's no world in which Walman sucks in the future and look back and say, "Wow, Walman really does suck. Yzerman was right. Good job not tricking other teams into not paying too much for him"