Vladimir Sobotka signs with Omsk (KHL)

[BlueDream]

And Lapierre is really miles ahead of Cracknell and Porter as a hockey player.

Benn Ferriero, who we just signed to a two-way deal, is just as good as both of them.

 

[intangible]

Sobotka awarded 1 year contract from arbitrator; must fulfill the year once/if he returns from KHL: http://blues.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=726719

 

[Note Worthy]

According to Sobotka the Blues refused to trade him.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hock...cle_ccbb15eb-a01d-5bb1-a6c4-9793b83cb4fd.html

 

[ManyIdeas]

http://i.imgur.com/XTXx00K.gif

:/

 

[2 Minute Minor]

According to Sobotka the Blues refused to trade him.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hock...cle_ccbb15eb-a01d-5bb1-a6c4-9793b83cb4fd.html

Wait, so he was demanding a trade? His side of this negotiation is getting less and less sympathetic, especially if he was offered a 1-year deal allowing him to be UFA at the end.

If he wanted to get paid and play in the NHL, I don't understand why he would go to the KHL. He STILL has that one-year commitment (arbitrator awarded contract) before he gets to do the UFA thing.

I guess his hope now is that another team acquires his rights in trade with the Blues. But he still has the one year lag before he gets his dream contract, right? Or has he cut bait with the NHL completely? I just don't quite get his logic here.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Also, the arbitration award is identical to the deal he was already being offered: 2.7M. (Its actually better than what I thought the arbitrator might have done.)

How does this work? Do both sides present a case and then the arbitrator rules? If so, was anyone there presenting Sobie's side?

 

[BlueDream]

Also, the arbitration award is identical to the deal he was already being offered: 2.7M. (Its actually better than what I thought the arbitrator might have done.)

How does this work? Do both sides present a case and then the arbitrator rules? If so, was anyone there presenting Sobie's side?

Yes that is how it works. I haven't heard who was there but I would assume someone from Sobotka's camp was there even if it wasn't he himself.

I don't understand Sobotka's thinking here either. If he truly didn't feel "appreciated" here then he must be a head case because that's really bizarre. He was extremely loved.

 

[tfriede2]

Wait, so he was demanding a trade? His side of this negotiation is getting less and less sympathetic, especially if he was offered a 1-year deal allowing him to be UFA at the end.

If he wanted to get paid and play in the NHL, I don't understand why he would go to the KHL. He STILL has that one-year commitment (arbitrator awarded contract) before he gets to do the UFA thing.

I guess his hope now is that another team acquires his rights in trade with the Blues. But he still has the one year lag before he gets his dream contract, right? Or has he cut bait with the NHL completely? I just don't quite get his logic here.

I think it is becoming clear that Sobotka didn't know that he would need to honor the arbiter's decision and owe the Blues one more season if he went to the KHL. He made his bed, and now he has to lay in it.

 

[tfriede2]

Yes that is how it works. I haven't heard who was there but I would assume someone from Sobotka's camp was there even if it wasn't he himself.

I don't understand Sobotka's thinking here either. If he truly didn't feel "appreciated" here then he must be a head case because that's really bizarre. He was extremely loved.

I think it is the same with Pujols. Money equals respect, in their eyes.

 

[542365]

Wait, so he was demanding a trade? His side of this negotiation is getting less and less sympathetic, especially if he was offered a 1-year deal allowing him to be UFA at the end.

If he wanted to get paid and play in the NHL, I don't understand why he would go to the KHL. He STILL has that one-year commitment (arbitrator awarded contract) before he gets to do the UFA thing.

I guess his hope now is that another team acquires his rights in trade with the Blues. But he still has the one year lag before he gets his dream contract, right? Or has he cut bait with the NHL completely? I just don't quite get his logic here.

I honestly think his agent didn't know that he would have to complete the one year commitment before becoming a UFA. The decision makes absolutely no sense unless he has plans on playing in Russia his entire career, which does not seem likely by his quotes. I don't know why Army wouldn't just trade his rights though. I could see that being frustrating to Soby, but all he had to do is accept 1 year, 2.7M with the Blues, have another good season, and get paid out the wazoo by a desperate GM next summer. His decision seems very short sighted.

Also, the arbitration award is identical to the deal he was already being offered: 2.7M. (Its actually better than what I thought the arbitrator might have done.)

How does this work? Do both sides present a case and then the arbitrator rules? If so, was anyone there presenting Sobie's side?

That's typically how it works, but I have no idea if he was represented. NHLPA might send someone? I don't know. If he did have representation, they obviously weren't very persuasive because he's basically getting exactly what the Blues offered him. I love Soby, but this decision is very silly. 1 year with the Blues and he could have been paid, especially if the Blues made a good run in the playoffs.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I think it is becoming clear that Sobotka didn't know that he would need to honor the arbiter's decision and owe the Blues one more season if he went to the KHL. He made his bed, and now he has to lay in it.

I doubt we'll ever know that for sure, but that's my read on this too.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

The more that comes out, the more Sobotka looks like he's acting the part of baby.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

I think it is becoming clear that Sobotka didn't know that he would need to honor the arbiter's decision and owe the Blues one more season if he went to the KHL. He made his bed, and now he has to lay in it.

This.

And If I were Armstrong, I'd look to trade Sobotka's rights since it's obvious Gumption no longer wants to play for the Blues.

 

[intangible]

Guess we should've traded Backes when it was clear he didn't want to play for the Blues, either, eh?

...that said...

When it all comes down to it the only losers here are the Blues. For $300k more and a one year contract we could've retained the best faceoff man in the league who was great on the PK and played with heart each and every night (while our supposed "leaders" took the night off or Berglund, who takes off half the season).

We could've traded Sobi and gotten something from him, but instead now we're left with Ott and his horrendous +/-, bad penalties, and lacking offense. And for way too much money, too. Sobotka's absence isn't just a negative in and of itself, but led to an even greater negative by signing Ott.

Meanwhile, Sobotka will go to the KHL, make about the same amount of money (if not a bit more), get 1st or 2nd line minutes that will help his worth in a future contract, and eventually -- when Armstrong feels like it -- will move on to a team who values him. Eventually Sobokta will get what he wants, even if it's through a roundabout way, while the Blues are left with, well, Ott and a gaping hole in PK and motivation.

 

[JustOneB4IDie]

Guess we should've traded Backes when it was clear he didn't want to play for the Blues, either, eh?

...that said...

When it all comes down to it the only losers here are the Blues. For $300k more and a one year contract we could've retained the best faceoff man in the league who was great on the PK and played with heart each and every night (while our supposed "leaders" took the night off or Berglund, who takes off half the season).

We could've traded Sobi and gotten something from him, but instead now we're left with Ott and his horrendous +/-, bad penalties, and lacking offense. And for way too much money, too. Sobotka's absence isn't just a negative in and of itself, but led to an even greater negative by signing Ott.

Meanwhile, Sobotka will go to the KHL, make about the same amount of money (if not a bit more), get 1st or 2nd line minutes that will help his worth in a future contract, and eventually -- when Armstrong feels like it -- will move on to a team who values him. Eventually Sobokta will get what he wants, even if it's through a roundabout way, while the Blues are left with, well, Ott and a gaping hole in PK and motivation.

Yeah I know sarcasm when I read and see it.

48 years of mistakes after mistakes for this cursed franchise.

 

[Note Worthy]

Guess we should've traded Backes when it was clear he didn't want to play for the Blues, either, eh?

...that said...

When it all comes down to it the only losers here are the Blues. For $300k more and a one year contract we could've retained the best faceoff man in the league who was great on the PK and played with heart each and every night (while our supposed "leaders" took the night off or Berglund, who takes off half the season).

We could've traded Sobi and gotten something from him, but instead now we're left with Ott and his horrendous +/-, bad penalties, and lacking offense. And for way too much money, too. Sobotka's absence isn't just a negative in and of itself, but led to an even greater negative by signing Ott.

Meanwhile, Sobotka will go to the KHL, make about the same amount of money (if not a bit more), get 1st or 2nd line minutes that will help his worth in a future contract, and eventually -- when Armstrong feels like it -- will move on to a team who values him. Eventually Sobokta will get what he wants, even if it's through a roundabout way, while the Blues are left with, well, Ott and a gaping hole in PK and motivation.

It's just not that big of a deal. It's really not.

Last year, this would have been a much bigger blow but with bringing in Stastny (meaning Sobotka doesn't have play 2nd line) and Lehtera (who will more than likely be a better replacement for Sobotka) it's just not as big of a deal as some are making it.

I think you're forgetting that it seems obvious Sobotka didn't want to play on the 4th line or have 4th line minutes (not that I blame him) but with the signings this year that's more than likely what he was going to get.

 

[Multimoodia]

Wait, so he was demanding a trade? His side of this negotiation is getting less and less sympathetic, especially if he was offered a 1-year deal allowing him to be UFA at the end.

If he wanted to get paid and play in the NHL, I don't understand why he would go to the KHL. He STILL has that one-year commitment (arbitrator awarded contract) before he gets to do the UFA thing.

I guess his hope now is that another team acquires his rights in trade with the Blues. But he still has the one year lag before he gets his dream contract, right? Or has he cut bait with the NHL completely? I just don't quite get his logic here.

It's difficult going through the process of admitting that perhaps one of your favorite players may, in fact, be a moron.

I seem to be slowly traveling along this path in regards Sobie and it is making me increasingly irritable.

 

[Majorityof1]

I think the thing to consider about whether we got screwed on the Sobotka affair is what we could have received in trade and what we will receive. Assuming Ott is satisfactory filling the versatile 3rd/4th liner and PKer role that Sobotka left open, the Blues had no current needs. As such, we would have and will be most likely trading for futures. If he plays a year in the KHL and comes back, we can still trade him before the draft and get a pick there. If he does well in the KHL, his value might go up. Contractually, I think his value is a little worse. The dollar is set at a reasonable amount; however, the term is short and risks him being a rental. I think he gets us a roughly a 2nd round pick either way. So there is no harm, no foul as long as he comes back soon, uninjured, and plays well in russia.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

It's difficult going through the process of admitting that perhaps one of your favorite players may, in fact, be a moron.

I seem to be slowly traveling along this path in regards Sobie and it is making me increasingly irritable.

How will we be able to tell?

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I think the thing to consider about whether we got screwed on the Sobotka affair is what we could have received in trade and what we will receive. Assuming Ott is satisfactory filling the versatile 3rd/4th liner and PKer role that Sobotka left open, the Blues had no current needs. As such, we would have and will be most likely trading for futures. If he plays a year in the KHL and comes back, we can still trade him before the draft and get a pick there. If he does well in the KHL, his value might go up. Contractually, I think his value is a little worse. The dollar is set at a reasonable amount; however, the term is short and risks him being a rental. I think he gets us a roughly a 2nd round pick either way. So there is no harm, no foul as long as he comes back soon, uninjured, and plays well in russia.

Maybe a 3rd with a conditional improvement if he does re-sign after the one year. I think for a team to be willing to trade for his rights, Sobotka is going to have to tell them something they will believe about him coming back to the NHL. Most smart GMs won't throw away a 2nd on a player who may decide to stick it out in the KHL. Its not like he's given himself a ton of negotiating leverage.

 

[Multimoodia]

How will we be able to tell?

I may, at times, be extra surly. Truculent even.
By gods, I might even, on occasion, deign to use sarcasm.

 

[Chojin]

I find it hard to fault army on this one. If it was just that they were $300k apart, that'd be one thing, but Sobotka was also using the threat of the KHL against them. Army refused to negotiate under those terms, and I can't blame him. If he capitulated, other players' agents would use that to drive up their extension prices as well.

I do think that Army should have traded Sobotka, though. Any number of teams could use him as their #2/3 center, and we probably could have gotten at least a 2nd for him. I'd take that over a Sobotka who doesn't want to play for us anymore because he wants a bigger role.

 

[Majorityof1]

Maybe a 3rd with a conditional improvement if he does re-sign after the one year. I think for a team to be willing to trade for his rights, Sobotka is going to have to tell them something they will believe about him coming back to the NHL. Most smart GMs won't throw away a 2nd on a player who may decide to stick it out in the KHL. Its not like he's given himself a ton of negotiating leverage.

I am assuming we do a sign and trade. Sign him to the arbitrator's contract and then trade him once he is committed to playing in the NHL.

 

[Alklha]

I find it hard to fault army on this one. If it was just that they were $300k apart, that'd be one thing, but Sobotka was also using the threat of the KHL against them. Army refused to negotiate under those terms, and I can't blame him. If he capitulated, other players' agents would use that to drive up their extension prices as well.

I do think that Army should have traded Sobotka, though. Any number of teams could use him as their #2/3 center, and we probably could have gotten at least a 2nd for him. I'd take that over a Sobotka who doesn't want to play for us anymore because he wants a bigger role.

I've basically been able to see both sides for the majority of this.

There are 2 complaints about how Armstrong has handled it; this deal should have been done 6+ months ago and Sobotka should have been traded before signing in the KHL. Despite the suggestions otherwise, Sobotka is absolutely worth $3.25m and probably a little more; he is a 3rd line centre, a very good one in fact, and the cap isn't $56m anymore. I imagine he'd have taken that mid-way through the season.

Once it became apparent that Sobotka wanted out, and we'd added Stastny and Lehterä, I really fail to see the logic in not trading him. His value is high, there are enough teams with the cap space and urgent need at centre to mean we'd be trading from a position of strength. We've lost the position of strength, trading a RFA has more value than with the 1 year deal and everyone knows he wants out. A big gamble on being able to change his mind.

When it comes to negotiations since the end of the season, can't really fault Armstrong.

 

[Dbrownss]

I've basically been able to see both sides for the majority of this.

There are 2 complaints about how Armstrong has handled it; this deal should have been done 6+ months ago and Sobotka should have been traded before signing in the KHL. Despite the suggestions otherwise, Sobotka is absolutely worth $3.25m and probably a little more; he is a 3rd line centre, a very good one in fact, and the cap isn't $56m anymore. I imagine he'd have taken that mid-way through the season.

Once it became apparent that Sobotka wanted out, and we'd added Stastny and Lehterä, I really fail to see the logic in not trading him. His value is high, there are enough teams with the cap space and urgent need at centre to mean we'd be trading from a position of strength. We've lost the position of strength, trading a RFA has more value than with the 1 year deal and everyone knows he wants out. A big gamble on being able to change his mind.

When it comes to negotiations since the end of the season, can't really fault Armstrong.

I agree with this line of thinking, but from all indications army was somewhat blindsided with how this ended. He said he felt they were close to a deal then sobie decides to take his toys and leaves....

In hindsight....i agree we should of signed him mid season then put him on the trade block when the center frenzy was at its peak.