Value of: Vitaly Kravtsov to EDM

TFHockey

The CEO of 7-8-0
May 16, 2014
7,194
4,565
Edmonton
Pretty much this.

The Rangers would be selling low like Edmonton would’ve done with Pulju. It makes more sense to hang onto him at this point and let it play out. I do think he’s very capable of being a top 6 forward in the NHL.

Truthfully the Rangers should absolutely hold onto their guy and bring him back in a more positive situation, just like Puljujarvi. He has worked out really well for the Oilers. It is very likely it will work out for New York as well.

If the NYR want move on from Kravtsov I am sure there will be takers. Vancouver was recently rumored to be interested last I heard. The Oilers should be too. Yams is a great kid and gives 100% on every shift making him a sparkplug type player but the Oilers need more size in their line up and Kravtsov has that in spades.
 

Moose and Squirrel

Registered User
Jan 15, 2021
3,685
2,703
Lundkvist has had 25 NHL games this season
Last 2 seasons was a very top and honored D in Sweden
Just happens to be an Offensive RD on a team which already has Fox and Trouba
that might be the rub. not sure EDM needs another offensive dman... think they need a steady defensive dman.. among other things lol
 

Seachd

Registered User
Mar 16, 2002
25,249
9,881
NO works for Oil not for NY, Krav worth more.
Broberg or Holloway, may be off the table, but that's what it would take.

Obviously, if that’s what it actually takes, and we don’t know, there’s no reason for the Oilers to entertain even listening.
 

McSuper

5-14-6-1
Jun 16, 2012
17,153
6,914
Halifax
will not stop, NY not giving Krav away to you is not nonsense
blue chip for blue chip or we keep him and slowly up his value

OP asked and this is what it should take, w/small sweetener from NY


A Russian malcontent whom bolded for the KHL because his coach didn't cave to his demands to be in the top 6 isn't worth a blue chip D man who is willing to pay his dues in the AHL and earn his spot on the team . You also offer a bunch of crap for Broberg who you are now saying value is the same as Krav . So I guess we can offer up the same type of crap . Ryan , NYR get a C + Russell . A vet D for the playoffs + Kassian some toughness for the playoffs + 3rd 2023
 

GhostfaceWu

Shi Shaw
Feb 11, 2015
11,267
11,755
Bold + why your OPINIOIN and ONLY your op, is wrong.
In order for you to be right on the merit of what you were advancing, the bold ital would have to be the exclusive, or at least dominant consideration, for your argument.
It is not. Krav had a great series then, and has continued to develop into a fine specimen of potentially star level performer, which is why everybody wants him. He still e.g,, has outstanding skating, vision some scoring pop, etc etc.
Your representation erroneously suggests he does not.

Let me give an illustration in parallel which would show where you would be correct.
Roger Maris hit 61 in '61. He was a productive RF, but never had that star level pop before or since.
That is an illustration not living up to a 1x beyond exceptional performance.

In the current situation, Krav has not played with quality linemates, setting aside other issues mgmt chiefly Drury has caused, which could also throw anybody's game off, but we'll let that slide.
If/when Drury capitulates to bern's way of thinking, then we will have an honest answer, one way or the other, as Krav will ACTUALLY be FACTUALLY updated. Again, I want meaningful mins with top line guys, nothing less.
If not and he is traded, fine, as long as the return is acceptable. We are not giving him away.


correct^imundo!




While you and I have a history of both agree/disagree, prob more disagree than agree, that is fine as for the most part it has been civil and with an effort to be mutually respectful.

We agree to disagree. Won't be the first or the last time.
We are not giving him away. He is worth more.
And consider this: if offers for Krav are too low and NY holds him and listens to me and finally puts the kid acceptable mins with first liners who don't go thru the motions, THEN not only might his value go up, if he crushes it --- not impossible with that level of talent --- his value may go up APPRECIABLY.
Didn't read past you calling someone elses opinion wrong because that was the biggest laugh you'll ever get on this board. I don't think there will ever be anyone on this board who is more out of touch with player value than you.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
28,622
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Da Big Apple
A Russian malcontent whom bolded for the KHL because his coach didn't cave to his demands to be in the top 6 isn't worth a blue chip D man who is willing to pay his dues in the AHL and earn his spot on the team . You also offer a bunch of crap for Broberg who you are now saying value is the same as Krav . So I guess we can offer up the same type of crap . Ryan , NYR get a C + Russell . A vet D for the playoffs + Kassian some toughness for the playoffs + 3rd 2023

you are at liberty to push this narrative, but that won't make it correct.
my position is on record, not gonna repeat it if that can be avoided
 

broc

Registered User
Dec 20, 2010
1,670
740
Sorry no. The HONEST dif is Lias was totally a stupid HUGE overreach on a guy who not only didn't belong 1st round, I have questions about him even into the 3rd.

This is not true bern. Go look at pre-draft prospect rankings in 2017.

Yes, NYR reached on Lias somewhat to be sure- he was consistently ranked in the early to mid first rd. Lots had him in the “teens” 13-15 commonly. It was a top heavy, not very good draft year, so the “reach” didn’t really make a difference when you look at how few good/great players finished out that 1st rd.

a reach at 7, I guess.
But not an out-of-nowhere pick like you are trying to portray here.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
28,622
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Da Big Apple
Didn't read past you calling someone elses opinion wrong because that was the biggest laugh you'll ever get on this board. I don't think there will ever be anyone on this board who is more out of touch with player value than you.

You are at liberty to read or not as you wish but do so at yr own peril.
The post you reference made an inaccurate, uninformed comment which I corrected, and if you wish to dispute that on the merits, feel free to do so, but if you are also wrong I will not hesitate to call you out.

That comment, like yours is unsubstantiated. I stand by the analogy I made. Address that, if you dare.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
28,622
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Da Big Apple
This is not true bern. Go look at pre-draft prospect rankings in 2017.

Yes, NYR reached on Lias somewhat to be sure- he was consistently ranked in the early to mid first rd. Lots had him in the “teens” 13-15 commonly. It was a top heavy, not very good draft year, so the “reach” didn’t really make a difference when you look at how few good/great players finished out that 1st rd.

a reach at 7, I guess.
But not an out-of-nowhere pick like you are trying to portray here.

It is fair and accurate to say that some had him late 1st -ish as you state, but they too were wrong.

Rangers deliberately wasted a 7OA, on a guy w/no skill, can't skate etc etc. Setting aside any other aspect, that criticism was correct.
 

broc

Registered User
Dec 20, 2010
1,670
740
It is fair and accurate to say that some had him late 1st -ish as you state, but they too were wrong.

Rangers deliberately wasted a 7OA, on a guy w/no skill, can't skate etc etc. Setting aside any other aspect, that criticism was correct.

I never said he was “late 1st-ish”.
You misread what I wrote, or are intentionally disregarding it.

I said he was consistently ranked in the early to mid 1st rd, commonly in the teens (13, 15, etc). It is easily google-able.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
28,622
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Da Big Apple
I never said he was “late 1st-ish”.
You misread what I wrote, or are intentionally disregarding it.

I said he was consistently ranked in the early to mid 1st rd, commonly in the teens (13, 15, etc). It is easily google-able.

Not casting aspersions and I'll take you at your word for that, but I ALSO know I heard buzz about later 1st like 19ish at earliest and later.

Either way, my pt remains, they were wrong to take a guy w/no talent etc whatsoever, whose big selling pt was he had a motor.
 

Double Dion

Jets fan 28/06/2014
Feb 9, 2011
11,779
4,557
So Edmonton needs at least one and I'd argue 2 top 4 defensemen that can actually defend and a goalie. The answer is to bring in a defensive liability who hasn't scored at the NHL level up front?

Makes about as much sense as letting Chiarelli sign Koskinen to a long term deal on his way out the door or giving up assets for the broken shell of Duncan Keith at full cap.
 

lawrence

Registered User
May 19, 2012
16,477
7,376
No, because he's under contract and on loan to his KHL team. Waivers is only necessary for players who aren't already under contract or on the team's reserve list.

Normally he'd be able to return at any time, but the Rangers agreed to leave him in the KHL for the season as part of the loan agreement.

Why is he not in the nhl/ahl this season ?
 

staveNsteel

Registered User
Jan 18, 2021
136
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Not casting aspersions and I'll take you at your word for that, but I ALSO know I heard buzz about later 1st like 19ish at earliest and later.

Either way, my pt remains, they were wrong to take a guy w/no talent etc whatsoever, whose big selling pt was he had a motor.

Lol.. no talent?! Get out of here with the keyboard jockey criticism and watch him play. He's not Panarin out there, but he has a heavy shot, a willingness to play at both ends of the ice, and isn't afraid to get to the dirty areas around the net.

Maybe look at the Rangers development system as an issue, and the articles that talked about how Drury mistreated Kravtsov. For some reason whenever a Russian kid has any type of issue, it always seems to be their fault and blamed on "entitlement."
 

GAGLine

Registered User
Sep 17, 2007
24,293
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Why is he not in the nhl/ahl this season ?

Because he's an entitled brat. He wouldn't accept the assignment to Hartford at the end of camp, so he took his ball and went home. The irony is, if he had just sucked it up for a few weeks, he would have been recalled and would likely have played 30+ games already, with a fair amount of top 6 time as well.
 

IIxGURUxII

Registered User
Jul 19, 2018
316
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At this point he's pushing Yakupov territory.. Oilers should not be spending more than a 3rd and a B level prospect on this kind of risk

After 4 years you are no longer a blue chip prospect.. you're a pro
 
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SoundAndFury

Registered User
May 28, 2012
11,877
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People who legitimately think Kravtsov can get more than a very late 2nd at this point are just delusional. The guy has absolutely nothing going for him at this point. He has been proven to be a trouble to work with, he continues to produce mediocre numbers in every league he plays in (that mostly being the KHL), unlikely to succeed or even commit to playing in a bottom-6 role.

His whole value is in a miracle chance he can go from mid-high end KHL forward to that in the NHL. That's not worth anything, you are better off simply going after some FA like Kuzmenko, Okulov or Zhafyarov without having to pay anything. They have as much chance of succeeding, in Kuzmenko's case probably more.
 

howkie

Registered User
Dec 13, 2014
4,294
2,636
Has anyone gone back to all those jesse puljujärvi values and see if Bern said Pulju was worth a top prospect after he went back to Finland/struggled before he went back or his value was shot to pieces. I have a sneaky suspision what it was, and I wounder why Kravt keeps his value and Pulju did not....... Offering Lias Andersson does not count as a top prospect back then or now...
 

TGWL

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Jul 28, 2011
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At this point he's pushing Yakupov territory.. Oilers should not be spending more than a 3rd and a B level prospect on this kind of risk

After 4 years you are no longer a blue chip prospect.. you're a pro
Whew. Good thing he's got until June then...
 
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YP44

Registered User
Jan 30, 2012
27,350
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Calgary, AB
No, because he's under contract and on loan to his KHL team. Waivers is only necessary for players who aren't already under contract or on the team's reserve list.

Normally he'd be able to return at any time, but the Rangers agreed to leave him in the KHL for the season as part of the loan agreement.
thank you
 

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