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Larry Brooks: Vitaly Kravtsov headed back to the KHL

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nyr2k2 said:
How has Buchnevich been ruined?
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I don't get this either. He's doing more than fine for a third round pick. Just because some people hyped the crap out of him and he didn't meet that hype doesn't mean he was "ruined"

He's also been a slow starter... I expect to see better than what we have thus far (which hasn't even been that bad)
 
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ThirdEye said:
I don't get this either. He's doing more than fine for a third round pick. Just because some people hyped the crap out of him and he didn't meet that hype doesn't mean he was "ruined"

He's also been a slow starter... I expect to see better than what we have thus far (which hasn't even been that bad)
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Sometimes a player just is what he is and wasn't ruined by a coach or team.
 
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ThirdEye said:
I don't get this either. He's doing more than fine for a third round pick. Just because some people hyped the crap out of him and he didn't meet that hype doesn't mean he was "ruined"

He's also been a slow starter... I expect to see better than what we have thus far (which hasn't even been that bad)
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Yeah and much like DeAngelo, by the end of last season he seemed to be playing the best hockey of his career. The approach they took with Tony and Buch, I think, has been very effective.

I was psyched that Buch was going to be a stud, but that's probably not going to happen. Sometimes he just plays dumb. That's not because he was ruined, that's just who he is as a player.
 
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I can't think of anyone from the Torts-AV years that got "ruined." Buch, JT Miller, Skjei and guys like that are flawed NHL players, but to be better than them you have to be really f***ing good. Like I call Buch a "floater" too when I get mad at him but is there a much more effective NHL winger somewhere with a much lower skill level? McIlrath was a bad draft pick and he had a bad injury.

Bringing over Robin Kovacs early to ride the bus and play fourth line didn't work out, but then you could make the argument that they knew he was a bit of a wild horse and they wanted to give him a structured environment.
 
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Kovalev27 said:
If by consulted you mean on OCT 25th the first day he was eligible to exercise his clause his agent called and said he was leaving and they politely said ok because they had to then yeah guess they were consulted. They didn’t have a choice
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Clearly you failed to understand that whole thing. If the Rangers had recalled him, he couldn’t have gone back to the KHL.
 
It’s impossible to say who got “ruined” because the comparative case is a hypothetical that you can’t actually see. I.e. how the player would have developed if not on the NYR.

Here’s a question for the group - what player/prospect has become more skilled in the NYR system? Or exceeded expectations for offensive production? Whether it’s due to the raw materials (drafting) or how they were developed (coaching/org development plan) I can’t think of many examples off the top of my head. Dubinsky / Callahan come to mind. But I could be forgetting people.
 
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The problem I have is, and I hope someone made this clear to him early on, is that the Rangers are not going to change their position. Assuming the best case scenario that he goes back to the KHL and dominates the Rangers are never going to say to him - "Hey, Vitaliy, remember that Hartford place you really don't want to play for? Well come back now and we promise you'll never go back there again." He's never going to get that guarantee.

It's not like the Rangers tried to reinvent the wheel with him. He obviously isn't NHL ready, especially not for a top 9 role. So what were they supposed to do? All he has to do is look around at other players in the organization to understand what's happening. He's playing with another highly touted European prospect and first round draft pick in Filip Chytil who is going through the same exact process and doing it successfully. Is it possible nobody said to Kravtsov - "Hey, you see Chytil? He's going to be in the Show soon - do what he's doing and this will work out." He's playing with another highly touted countryman in Shesterkin who, despite possibly being the best goalie outside the NHL, has absolutely nothing guaranteed to him with Lundqvist and Georgiev ahead of him on the depth chart.

I just don't see what is going to change to alter the status quo. Is Kravtsov going to become amenable to possibly playing in the Always Hungry League after a year or two in the KHL? Anything can happen I guess and I hate to be all doom and gloom but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if he stays over there, has a great KHL career and a great life surrounded by family and friends.
 
I had the impression that Kravtsov was getting down on himself in Hartford and he wasn't playing well and players get depressed when they feel over their heads and it can come out looking like they're not trying. Too much too soon sometimes. Next year he should be better. He'll know the drill--he'll be a little stronger too.

This ain't necessarily the end of the world for him or for us.
 
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Absolut said:
Given that is is a trend with the organization, you should be much more concerned about how the Rangers handle their young players (including Kakko, by the way). Kravtsov is a nice player, but whether he makes it or not is not the biggest issue here. Something got royally screwed up, because the kid did everything that was asked of him and ended up in a strange situation. He ain't the first and he won't be the last. Our young assets need to be put in a position to succeed. Buchnevich to me is a shining example of ruining a player. Accountability is great. Effort is great. But taking a factory approach to young players no longer works. And that applies to all prospects, regardless of where they are from. Things have changed, but the Rangers approach to kids hasn't.
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I was watching some TSN or Sportsnet coverage the other day and they were praising Montreal for the job they did on sheltering their Finnish prospect K'Nemi Sp ??? last season . Immediately I thought about our kids like Chytil/Buch/Lias . Not much sheltering went on there . I still recall the night Big Buff made Buch a part of the Garden boards....figured he was dead...
 
leetch99 said:
I was watching some TSN or Sportsnet coverage the other day and they were praising Montreal for the job they did on sheltering their Finnish prospect K'Nemi Sp ??? last season . Immediately I thought about our kids like Chytil/Buch/Lias . Not much sheltering went on there . I still recall the night Big Buff made Buch a part of the Garden boards....figured he was dead...
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The Canes are doing a fantastic job with their young players. Didn't stop Aho from signing an offer sheet, but it's just a pleasure watching their kids develop.
 
That's what happens when you draft American for 2 decades and then start to draft Europeans left and right and neglect the clear cultural difference. A lot of meaningless words from both coaching staffs and management. If you choose to not manage your prospects with a bit of yield and carrot and insist on regimental sticks, then you're going to lose a few along the way. Better get back to drafting Americans.
 
The Crypto Guy said:
Dude will be traded before he plays a game in the NHL. **** the HFD coaching staff.
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Yeah screw them. Vitaly did nothing wrong.

Can we get a grip here?

I’m sure NY/HFD isn’t completely blameless, but he ran at the first sign of adversity. The coaching staff can’t be that bad, Chytil and Igor seem to be doing just fine.
 
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Absolut said:
Is this what you expected him to be?
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Yeah once he came over and I saw what we had, I thought he was like a 50-point guy. Which is what I think he'll be pretty soon.

What did you expect him to be, and why? It's easy to get caught up in the hype. But as others have said, sometimes guys are what they are. I don't know what any team could have done for Buchnevich to make him more than what he is. He's not an elite-level player based on his skills. He is what he is.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
Yeah once he came over and I saw what we had, I thought he was like a 50-point guy. Which is what I think he'll be pretty soon.

What did you expect him to be, and why? It's easy to get caught up in the hype. But as others have said, sometimes guys are what they are. I don't know what any team could have done for Buchnevich to make him more than what he is. He's not an elite-level player based on his skills. He is what he is.
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Meh I thought he'd be better than a 40 point guy. Not a star player, but maybe someone who could put up 60 points. I saw a lot of creativity initially. That was knocked out of him pretty fast. I also plenty of weaknesses, which never improved. He's just a borderline NHL'er (regardless of the numbers he'll put up playing with Z & Panarin). With better development he'd be a better player.
 
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Lias Andersson said:
The problem I have is, and I hope someone made this clear to him early on, is that the Rangers are not going to change their position. Assuming the best case scenario that he goes back to the KHL and dominates the Rangers are never going to say to him - "Hey, Vitaliy, remember that Hartford place you really don't want to play for? Well come back now and we promise you'll never go back there again." He's never going to get that guarantee.

It's not like the Rangers tried to reinvent the wheel with him. He obviously isn't NHL ready, especially not for a top 9 role. So what were they supposed to do? All he has to do is look around at other players in the organization to understand what's happening. He's playing with another highly touted European prospect and first round draft pick in Filip Chytil who is going through the same exact process and doing it successfully. Is it possible nobody said to Kravtsov - "Hey, you see Chytil? He's going to be in the Show soon - do what he's doing and this will work out." He's playing with another highly touted countryman in Shesterkin who, despite possibly being the best goalie outside the NHL, has absolutely nothing guaranteed to him with Lundqvist and Georgiev ahead of him on the depth chart.

I just don't see what is going to change to alter the status quo. Is Kravtsov going to become amenable to possibly playing in the Always Hungry League after a year or two in the KHL? Anything can happen I guess and I hate to be all doom and gloom but I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if he stays over there, has a great KHL career and a great life surrounded by family and friends.
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I see it as a "Hey you prob wont be ready so we'll give you this clause and a tryout but NEXT year you have to be all in here no matter what." Which makes perfect sense.

I HOPE that the AHL stuff was just a measure to keep him healthy so he could get his KHL contract settled

I'm also not sure why he'd go an purposely delete all NYR pics like that. Pretty reasonable to think that's bs on his part but whatever. We'll see how he does next season
 
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