Larry Brooks: Vitaly Kravtsov headed back to the KHL

[HatTrick Swayze]

Here’s my concern - NYR org seems to have either been really naive or way too hands off.

I mean this kid is a super high profile prospect. #1 on that TSN list. He’s having his tires pumped by everyone and everyone last year.

Then Kakko gets drafted and makes the team. He gets cut. Obviously rough for anyone but’s hes 19 y/o. And at the end of the day he’s gotta figure his way through it eventually and channel it back into himself. But really, on what planet is that a smart time for the AHL coach to go full hardass on him like he’s Herb Books?

I’m not commenting on VKs character (who on here can do that, really?) but how is the org not a little more aware of the situation? Like maybe lets know when to give a little more slack here? Like actually let your #2 prospect in this rebuild start with minutes and PP1 time? I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Be a little diplomatic FFS.

 

[LORDE]

Don't feed the troll AK.

Also, idk if it's been posted b/c i didn't want to read through 8+ pages of whining, but per Carp:

"The Rangers, per sources, feel Kravtsov has done everything that was asked of him – coming over in the summer for workouts, making a big effort to learn the language, etc. – and are comfortable with his decision to return home for this season. Thus the Rangers didn’t feel it was necessary to force the issue with Kravtsov.

The Rangers, if they had believed Kravtsov’s progress to be on the right trajectory, could have called him up to the NHL roster, but that wasn’t the case. More likely, Kravtsov would have been looking at a long stint in Hartford.

In fact, the club feels Kravtsov could benefit from another season in Russia’s KHL, which is a more competitive league than the AHL. It could actually speed his development."

Vitali Kravtsov exercises escape clause to return to...

But rink size tho bro!

 

[UnSandvich]

But rink size tho bro!

To be honest, i'm not a super huge fan of him going back. But if that's what he wants, and the Rangers are cool with that and everything he's done so far, who am I to complain?

At least he'll be getting appropriate TOI, he was one of Traktor's best players last season.

 

[LORDE]

You just reminded me that I have a Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter waiting for me.

Love that beer! Have u tried UBU ale from Lake Placid? Also a fav

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I've been waiting to comment on this all day since the story first broke:

It's not that big of a deal, the season is young, let him go back and play where he's comfortable. He may not be ready or mature enough to handle the situation now, he's 19. How many people at age 19 have a bad first year of college and have to transfer, party too hard, almost fail out? My second boss was a really smart IT dude and very cool as long as you did your work. He told me when he was 19 he dropped out of college due to partying and worked in a warehouse. That year made him reflect and assess where he was and what he was doing etc and he came back more mature to handle it the next year.

This whole 18-19 year old craze in the NHL due to the salary cap was supposed to be only for the 2012-13 shortened season but it's gotten progressively worse since then. I'm not saying no 18-19 year olds can handle the numbers of games, pace, physicality but those are prime development years. Most normal rookies aka non top picks or outliers didn't join an org until at least 2-3 years after draft. This was the case for decades.

So why are people freaking out over this yet Miller and Lundkvist who were drafted the same year, there was no thought of them EVER turning pro until next season at earliest. And Miller is much more physically developed than VK.

Chill.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Here’s my concern - NYR org seems to have either been really naive or way too hands off.

I mean this kid is a super high profile prospect. #1 on that TSN list. He’s having his tires pumped by everyone and everyone last year.

Then Kakko gets drafted and makes the team. He gets cut. Obviously rough for anyone but’s hes 19 y/o. And at the end of the day he’s gotta figure his way through it eventually and channel it back into himself. But really, on what planet is that a smart time for the AHL coach to go full hardass on him like he’s Herb Books?

I’m not commenting on VKs character (who on here can do that, really?) but how is the org not a little more aware of the situation? Like maybe lets know when to give a little more slack here? Like actually let your #2 prospect in this rebuild start with minutes and PP1 time? I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Be a little diplomatic FFS.

The entire sequence of events was just so bizarre. He has a great season in the KHL then is signed. He moved to the US over the summer and put in a lot of work training, learning the language and culture, getting adapted, etc. He has an alright camp which is to be expected for such a young kid that obviously needs seasoning and learning at the level but the coaching staff and organization showers him with nothing but praise. Then he gets cut and within a few days everything seemingly goes to shit. Benched, scratched, demoted, etc. I'm not going down the character road either but it just seemed incredibly odd to me that he seemed so engaged and ready to be here and the organization had nothing but great things to say and within a weekend he's basically ready to head back overseas. Did he taking getting demoted that hard? Was it somewhat agreed upon he wouldn't stay in Hartford long term? It just seems very weird to me.

 

[Mikos87]

To me this is an indictment on the development environment for the Rangers.

Hey- it's great that you've got all of these young assets. But let's look at it on the whole.

Over the last 2 years- what has the board been complaining about when it comes to the kids?

It's a matter of putting them in a position to succeed and maximizing their potential.

Is that happening?

• Lias- 7 minutes a night next to a career plug, and a guy who can't play defense anymore.
• Chytil- showed some flashes, but physically overwhelmed and struggling with his confidence.
• Howden- promising center looks like he would be lucky to be a career 4th liner.
• Skjei- Regressing steadily from his rookie season.
• Kakko- Already telling Finnish media how upset he is.
• Kravstov- Went back home the 1st chance he got.
• Buch- took a step, but is constantly benched.
• ADA- looking better but benched for 20+ games when he was a better option than the product on the ice.
• Fox- early but looks solid, but for 15 minutes a night.
• Hajek- early but looks solid after being an offensive black hole in HFD.

To me these are indications of a limited support infrastructure for developing talent. It's a combination of the kids not having insulation, and simply stupid managerial decisions.

This isn't going to happen by bringing in business consultants to help your organzation, the Knicks are worse.

You need experienced hockey guys, that can build a culture.

I like "what I'm hearing", but I do not like "what I'm seeing".

Balls in JD's court. I hope he brings in some of the staff he had in St. Louis and Columbus.

You wanna know why? Those organizations were able to develop players. I simply do not think that the Rangers support infrastructure, as currently constituted and can deliver on that.

 

[NYRFAN218]

As for the actual news, I have no real strong opinion on it one way or the other. I certainly don't think this is a good thing but it's also not a sky is falling and everything's ruined type thing. I would have ultimately preferred to see him play consistently on the smaller rink, become even more adapted to the culture here, get used to the North American game, etc. But the assignment clause was something he negotiated and it is his right. He's still extremely young and he'll get tons of minutes in the KHL. Considering when the KHL season ends. the fact that his contract burns a year off regardless of if he comes back or not. and that guys like Kreider and others up front may be dealt by the deadline, it wouldn't shock me to see him back with the big club by years end.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Wrong. The clause was reported when the contract was signed. Other players have had European assignment clauses and they decided to stick it out and make it work. Orlov could have gone back to the KHL instead of playing in the AHL. He stayed. Kravstov ran back to Russia after not giving the AHL any opportunity. The season is barely 3 weeks old and he is gone. It’s a long season. Maybe we could have been ready in December or January after playing 2-3 months in the AHL. The Rangers will back at square one with him next season. It’s a wasted season of development.

What part of my post was wrong?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I'm disappointed they tried to strong arm him in Hartford by benching him. It was probably a kick in the nads to get sent there to begin with and then to get benched by an Ahl team your 2nd game in, I'm not sure what they were thinking. Imo he was better served being in Hartford and Knobloch blew this one, all he had to do is put him and Chytil together and play the life out of them until they got comfortable.

 

[Edge]

Agreed. Personally, I don’t think it’s the best decision for him, but that’s easy for me to say whom grew up in this country. That’s a lot on this kid. I’m sure it’s a lot for Kakko, but he seems more ready for the challenge.

I am disappointed by the decision and frustrated by the situation. While I don’t think it’s a good thing, I also don’t think it’s a “huge” deal either.

What I have seen, one way or the other, is that Kravtsov has some cooking to do and is closer to the 2 or even 3 year trajectory I thought he was on when we drafted him.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Here’s my concern - NYR org seems to have either been really naive or way too hands off.

I mean this kid is a super high profile prospect. #1 on that TSN list. He’s having his tires pumped by everyone and everyone last year.

Then Kakko gets drafted and makes the team. He gets cut. Obviously rough for anyone but’s hes 19 y/o. And at the end of the day he’s gotta figure his way through it eventually and channel it back into himself. But really, on what planet is that a smart time for the AHL coach to go full hardass on him like he’s Herb Books?

I’m not commenting on VKs character (who on here can do that, really?) but how is the org not a little more aware of the situation? Like maybe lets know when to give a little more slack here? Like actually let your #2 prospect in this rebuild start with minutes and PP1 time? I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Be a little diplomatic FFS.

A lot of people just operate under the assumption of “they’re the professionals, they know what they’re doing” and apply it to every situation.

When they make a good trade, it’s because we fleeced the other team. When we make a bad trade, the old “do you know they had a better offer?” card is thrown out. It’s whatever fits the above “they’re professionals” narrative. The only consistency is people falsely assuming the Rangers always have a situation under control.

I don’t really understand how someone can look at this particular situation and not think that even a sliver of the blame goes to the Rangers here.

VK looks bad here too, no doubt. But if I get promoted for a role I was unprepared for, my manager is going to look bad as well.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The biggest issue for me is now they’re on the clock with him. This year is going to burned away, because obviously he wasn’t ready

But I don’t know how the organization would have gotten around that.

Unless they decided to just have him stay in the KHL from the jump and never signed him. But again, I doubt that was going to happen, considering they were pushing for him to sign last year after he was drafted

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

The biggest issue for me is now they’re on the clock with him. This year is going to burned away, because obviously he wasn’t ready

But I don’t know how the organization would have gotten around that.

Unless they decided to just have him stay in the KHL from the jump and never signed him. But again, I doubt that was going to happen, considering they were pushing for him to sign last year after he was drafted

Yea, of all the critiques I don’t really get understand why they shouldn’t have signed him. It was smart to get him under contract, even if this year didn’t work out. Better than him negotiating another KHL deal for $$. And as others have mentioned he was the first of VK-Shesty-Rykov to sign which probably at least didn’t hurt.

 

[JT Kreider]

Funny how quickly these boards, all of them, change the status of prospects from blue chip to bust at a moment’s notice.

It would be a different story if our management group earned the benefit of the doubt. Instead they have a terrible track record when it comes to drafting and developing so posts like that are rightfully so to be expected

 

[Matz03]

The optics here don’t make this a good thing, I’m disappointed as well but thinking big picture he’s just 19. It’s just his second season after being drafted, he needs to develop still, grow physically, mature as a person and an athlete. He can do that back home come back next year for the summer again, train here with Prentiss, even go back again if he wants too and still isn’t ready. At least we have some control. He was absolutely not close to NHL ready and he at least has some idea where he needs to improve.

I have not liked what they’ve done with Howden, Chytil and Anderson, all players seem to have been rushed and all of them stumbled. Having VK go back is the patient approach, having Chytil in Hartford was the right decision too. They really need to be more patient with current and future talent.

 

[Matz03]

It would be a different story if our management group earned the benefit of the doubt. Instead they have a terrible track record when it comes to drafting and developing so posts like that are rightfully so to be expected

But they don’t have a terrible track record, rather more of an average track record and avg isn’t good enough for ny and the assets they had recently.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

But they don’t have a terrible track record, rather more of an average track record and avg isn’t good enough for ny and the assets they had recently.

I think average is maybe a bit generous. We’ve grabbed a couple of Jesper Fast type players in later rounds. But I’m having a tough time thinking of a single team in the league that has done a worse job of drafting and developing top talent. Maybe NJD ironically?

Staal is the best player this team has drafted in 15 years. Miller is the highest scoring player we’ve drafted over that time period.

 

[JT Kreider]

But they don’t have a terrible track record, rather more of an average track record and avg isn’t good enough for ny and the assets they had recently.

Nah, its terrible. For example they have nothing to for any of our 2nd round picks in 2010-2015. They used those picks to draft Thomas, Nieves, Halverson and Gropp.

Players we passed on with those picks: Klingberg, Gostisbehere, Gallagher, Murray, Parayko, Slavin, Anderson, Hellebuyck, Athanasiou, Point, Arvidsson.

If that's not a terrible track record then I dont know what is

 

[lakeshirts37]

Just another in a string of poor draft picks led by Gordie Clark. What else is new? He let the Islanders get Wahlstrom and Dobson who are both on the NHL team while he drafts a player who flees to the KHL at the first sign of adversity. This does not bode well for his future. You'd like to see him fight through struggles and get used to the game rather than just quit and go back to his comfort zone. We've seen this before from other European players too. Mikhail Grigorenko, Jesse Puljujarvi, and Nail Yakupov all went back to Europe after struggling out of the gate to the pro game in the NHL and haven't seen the NHL since. Val Nichushkin went there, came back, and hasn't scored a single goal in 62 games since then. Late firsts are when you gamble on these type of guys. With a top 10 pick you need to go with more of the sure thing as opposed to the player who has options outside of the NHL.

I think this is a touch premature lol. Let’s see how he develops the kid is 19 years old. Also, let’s not forget about the financial implications here. I don’t blame him at all.

 

[Irishguy42]

Players we passed on with those picks: Klingberg, Gostisbehere, Gallagher, Murray, Parayko, Slavin, Anderson, Hellebuyck, Athanasiou, Point, Arvidsson.

If this is the kind of logic you're using to grade team drafting track records, then most teams have horrible drafting track records.

 

[I Eat Crow]

To me this is an indictment on the development environment for the Rangers.

Hey- it's great that you've got all of these young assets. But let's look at it on the whole.

Over the last 2 years- what has the board been complaining about when it comes to the kids?

It's a matter of putting them in a position to succeed and maximizing their potential.

Is that happening?

• Lias- 7 minutes a night next to a career plug, and a guy who can't play defense anymore.
• Chytil- showed some flashes, but physically overwhelmed and struggling with his confidence.
• Howden- promising center looks like he would be lucky to be a career 4th liner.
• Skjei- Regressing steadily from his rookie season.
• Kakko- Already telling Finnish media how upset he is.
• Kravstov- Went back home the 1st chance he got.
• Buch- took a step, but is constantly benched.
• ADA- looking better but benched for 20+ games when he was a better option than the product on the ice.
• Fox- early but looks solid, but for 15 minutes a night.
• Hajek- early but looks solid after being an offensive black hole in HFD.

To me these are indications of a limited support infrastructure for developing talent. It's a combination of the kids not having insulation, and simply stupid managerial decisions.

This isn't going to happen by bringing in business consultants to help your organzation, the Knicks are worse.

You need experienced hockey guys, that can build a culture.

I like "what I'm hearing", but I do not like "what I'm seeing".

Balls in JD's court. I hope he brings in some of the staff he had in St. Louis and Columbus.

You wanna know why? Those organizations were able to develop players. I simply do not think that the Rangers support infrastructure, as currently constituted and can deliver on that.

Nail on the head, as usual.

 

[NYRFAN218]

Yea, of all the critiques I don’t really get understand why they shouldn’t have signed him. It was smart to get him under contract, even if this year didn’t work out. Better than him negotiating another KHL deal for $$. And as others have mentioned he was the first of VK-Shesty-Rykov to sign which probably at least didn’t hurt.

Agreed. Sucks the year is burned but it gets tricky with Russian players in the KHL. Who's to say he doesn't turn around and sign a 2-3 year deal after last season over there? Then we have a big problem. He's signed here now so his future is here especially with the assignment clause apparently only being for this season.

 

[JT Kreider]

If this is the kind of logic you're using to grade team drafting track records, then most teams have horrible drafting track records.

It would be a different story if we at least had something to show for those picks. Like the Bruins passed on Barzal but they still have DeBrusk who is a gamer. Or if they made up for it by drafting elite talent like Pastrnak and McAvoy later in the 1st round.

These mistakes all add up and this is why our depth is shot and we have McKegg and Smith in the lineup and why the Bruins are, well, the Bruins.

BTW also took Tambellini over Guentzel, Pesce and Dunn.

Also, I included development in my post which was ignored, but that is just as important as the drafting itself.

Compare two players on the opposite end of the spectrum, Pastrnak and Puljujarvi. One of them got drafted into a great stable situation and was brought along nice and slow in a 4th line role by a Stanley Cup winning coach with a strong two way system, and once he mastered that he was put on a line with a 1st ballot HOF franchise center and a 100 point puck hound of a winger and well no shit he is going to be a succesful player in this league for years to come.

Puljujarvi got the exact opposite treatment, thrown into the fire in a toxic environment. He never stood a chance.

But I'd like to think with their situations reversed, Puljujarvi would be among the leaders in scoring and Pastrnak would have floundered in Edmonton before wasting out of the NHL.

 

[klingsor]

Personally, I don't give a damn about the optics in this case.

Just hope he returns next season (or maybe even this season) better prepared to use his talent.