Player Discussion Vitali Kravtsov - Signed 2-Year Deal with Traktor Chelyabinsk

[biturbo19]

I'd offer him a contract at minimum sort of buriable dollars. Let him fight it out at camp to find a roster spot.


But i don't really expect that Kravtsov is at all interested in running that back again. He's failed at it basically every other time he's tried.

He's just a player who completely lacks the intensity and grit to be successful in the sort of role his tools are tailored to.


No harm no foul as a basically nothing gamble to try out. But if the will isn't there, it's not there. Nothing you can do about that.

 

[mossey3535]

Yeah I mean, Joshua has a fraction of this guy's skill and he isn't a real bruiser but at least I see him _trying_. He was a good gamble for basically nothing so if we can keep gambling for nothing I'm ok with it but he definitely has to play in the AHL.

 

[EdJovanovski]

This was never about what he’d do down the stretch in the handful of games at the end of the season, this is a 9th overall pick with elite puck skills who is underdeveloped/weak and overwhelmed by the physicality of the NHL game. Need to see what he looks like after an offseason/training camp with this new team. He wasn’t going to build up strength all of a sudden by being traded. He's a player with a clearly specified weakness that primarily is worked on in the offseason.

 

[arttk]

He’s our honorary AGM’s client so he will most likely be qualified and given a chance at training camp. Not having high hopes but we’ll see if he earns a spot. You really hope he takes the summer seriously and work out like his career depends on it.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

This was never about what he’d do down the stretch in the handful of games at the end of the season, this is a 9th overall pick with elite puck skills who is underdeveloped/weak and overwhelmed by the physicality of the NHL game. Need to see what he looks like after an offseason/training camp with this new team. He wasn’t going to build up strength all of a sudden by being traded. He's a player with a clearly specified weakness that primarily is worked on in the offseason.

You got him coming to camp jacked doncha?

 

[strattonius]

This was never about what he’d do down the stretch in the handful of games at the end of the season, this is a 9th overall pick with elite puck skills who is underdeveloped/weak and overwhelmed by the physicality of the NHL game. Need to see what he looks like after an offseason/training camp with this new team. He wasn’t going to build up strength all of a sudden by being traded. He's a player with a clearly specified weakness that primarily is worked on in the offseason.

If you're 24 and still haven't figured out a correct strength and conditioning routine in the off season the problem is accountability, maturation and/or poor self reflection. It just feels like Kravtsov's problems are bigger than a new team and good off-season.

You can see the skill, although I would say it's probably over-rated at the NHL level. Kravtsov skates hard and loses gas 15 seconds in to his shift. He's left reaching for pucks and stops trying to anticipate the play - he just follows it hopelessly. He's probably been told he lacks conditioning since he was 19 but hasnt corrected - I don't believe the Sedins will magically break through to Kravtsov. He doesn't have the 'it' drive that separates a lot of these players. There's a large list of talented hockey players that could have made the NHL if their head was geared to making a bigger commitment and Kravtsov will add himself to the list. Would love to be wrong, but won't be.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Curious to see what happens this off-season. Kravstov seems like a guy who would really benefit from playing with Abbotsford and Jeremy Colliton. But would he consent to a development plan that included the AHL, or will he just bolt back to the KHL?

 

[arttk]

You got him coming to camp jacked doncha?

He’s gonna be cut right away if he doesn’t lol

 

[EdJovanovski]

If you're 24 and still haven't figured out a correct strength and conditioning routine in the off season the problem is accountability, maturation and/or poor self reflection. It just feels like Kravtsov's problems are bigger than a new team and good off-season.

You can see the skill, although I would say it's probably over-rated at the NHL level. Kravtsov skates hard and loses gas 15 seconds in to his shift. He's left reaching for pucks and stops trying to anticipate the play - he just follows it hopelessly. He's probably been told he lacks conditioning since he was 19 but hasnt corrected - I don't believe the Sedins will magically break through to Kravtsov. He doesn't have the 'it' drive that separates a lot of these players. There's a large list of talented hockey players that could have made the NHL if their head was geared to making a bigger commitment and Kravtsov will add himself to the list. Would love to be wrong, but won't be.

He’s not 24 lol, he turned 23, 4 months ago. But look at the track record that the Rangers have with other forward prospects: Lafreniere, Kakko, Andersson. They all actually have similar issues with conditioning and being gassed at ends of shifts. Especially when he’s going weeks on end without playing a game it’s tough to stay in game shape. From what I see of the Canucks practices/training and how young guys develop there, I have more faith in them getting Kravs conditioning on point than the Rangers. Russia is also notorious for poor conditioning, a lot of players come from there with poor conditioning and really weak strength. Buchnevich for example kept re-injuring his back his rookie season due to lack of core strength and AV said it looked like he’d never stepped foot in a gym in his life.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Curious to see what happens this off-season. Kravstov seems like a guy who would really benefit from playing with Abbotsford and Jeremy Colliton. But would he consent to a development plan that included the AHL, or will he just bolt back to the KHL?

His issue was with Hartford not with the AHL as a whole, so I think he would be willing. He’s said before he would be. Several players had issues with Hartford, another player (Reaunianen) exercised his European out clause before Krav did the same season, Krav actually reported to Hartford and played there for a while first. Lundkvist refused to report to training camp altogether. Sean Day requested a trade when he was in Hartford, so did Ryan Gropp. Hartford is rotten to the core

 

[credulous]

kravtsov will have to clear waivers to go to abby. doubt he gets claimed given his play but it is worth considering

 

[VanJack]

Kravstov would be well advised to hit the gym this summer and move heaven and earth to continue playing professional hockey in N.A.

A few seasons back, chucking the NHL for the KHL was a real option, and often players actually did better financially with a tax-free salary. But that was 'then', and this is 'now'. The war in Ukraine has changed everything in the KHL.

Young Russian males, whether they're hockey players or not, all of sudden have 'mandatory conscription' to think about. And the KHL has been weakened considerably with the flight of foreign players.

On balance, it just can't be very appealing for Russian players to go back home and play in the KHL.

 

[MarkMM]

If you're 24 and still haven't figured out a correct strength and conditioning routine in the off season the problem is accountability, maturation and/or poor self reflection. It just feels like Kravtsov's problems are bigger than a new team and good off-season.

You can see the skill, although I would say it's probably over-rated at the NHL level. Kravtsov skates hard and loses gas 15 seconds in to his shift. He's left reaching for pucks and stops trying to anticipate the play - he just follows it hopelessly. He's probably been told he lacks conditioning since he was 19 but hasnt corrected - I don't believe the Sedins will magically break through to Kravtsov. He doesn't have the 'it' drive that separates a lot of these players. There's a large list of talented hockey players that could have made the NHL if their head was geared to making a bigger commitment and Kravtsov will add himself to the list. Would love to be wrong, but won't be.

This is why I took issue with Allvin's comment that everyone has work ethic, it's the skill that you should look for. Don't get me wrong, I like going for the high upside, but I also think you can't take for granted the importance of sheer will. Alexandre Burrows vs Fedor Federov is something in our own history to think about.

He’s not 24 lol, he turned 23, 4 months ago. But look at the track record that the Rangers have with other forward prospects: Lafreniere, Kakko, Andersson. They all actually have similar issues with conditioning and being gassed at ends of shifts. Especially when he’s going weeks on end without playing a game it’s tough to stay in game shape. From what I see of the Canucks practices/training and how young guys develop there, I have more faith in them getting Kravs conditioning on point than the Rangers. Russia is also notorious for poor conditioning, a lot of players come from there with poor conditioning and really weak strength. Buchnevich for example kept re-injuring his back his rookie season due to lack of core strength and AV said it looked like he’d never stepped foot in a gym in his life.

His issue was with Hartford not with the AHL as a whole, so I think he would be willing. He’s said before he would be. Several players had issues with Hartford, another player (Reaunianen) exercised his European out clause before Krav did the same season, Krav actually reported to Hartford and played there for a while first. Lundkvist refused to report to training camp altogether. Sean Day requested a trade when he was in Hartford, so did Ryan Gropp. Hartford is rotten to the core

The only viable path out of this mess short of a full rebuild (which seems off the table for now) is giong to mean our development system is going to have to demonstrate the ability to recover value in unexpected places. Kravtsov is a perfect example of what we'll need to be able to reclaim if we're going to successfully "retool on the fly".

Kravstov would be well advised to hit the gym this summer and move heaven and earth to continue playing professional hockey in N.A.

A few seasons back, chucking the NHL for the KHL was a real option, and often players actually did better financially with a tax-free salary. But that was 'then', and this is 'now'. The war in Ukraine has changed everything in the KHL.

Young Russian males, whether they're hockey players or not, all of sudden have 'mandatory conscription' to think about. And the KHL has been weakened considerably with the flight of foreign players.

On balance, it just can't be very appealing for Russian players to go back home and play in the KHL.

This is very true and shouldn't be discounted. Even short of being conscripted, the uncertainty about being able to travel (I have a couple Russian employees and if they go back they're not sure they'll be able to travel, both because the Russians might not let them out and other countries might not let them in), and the quality of life given the sanctions are making certain products and services unavailable.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Kravstov would be well advised to hit the gym this summer and move heaven and earth to continue playing professional hockey in N.A.

A few seasons back, chucking the NHL for the KHL was a real option, and often players actually did better financially with a tax-free salary. But that was 'then', and this is 'now'. The war in Ukraine has changed everything in the KHL.

Young Russian males, whether they're hockey players or not, all of sudden have 'mandatory conscription' to think about. And the KHL has been weakened considerably with the flight of foreign players.

On balance, it just can't be very appealing for Russian players to go back home and play in the KHL.

This wouldn’t be of concern for Vitali, he wouldn’t be conscripted. He comes from a powerful family in Russia and his dad was a top ranking KGB agent. His dad is literally banned from the US because of who he is

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

If you actually watch him for a few years, you will realize he is a centre.

If you run a team and make him play wing, he will fail and then everyone will say it's Krav's fault but really it's because he does virtually none of things wingers are good at and most of the things that centres are good at.

So he will continue to fail because the Canucks are clueless at so many levels.

 

[strattonius]

This is why I took issue with Allvin's comment that everyone has work ethic, it's the skill that you should look for. Don't get me wrong, I like going for the high upside, but I also think you can't take for granted the importance of sheer will. Alexandre Burrows vs Fedor Federov is something in our own history to think about.

I think you've taken what he said out of context. I think he's referring to 17 yr olds about to be drafted. When we talk about Kravtsov we're looking at a player that should be hitting his prime at 23 - it's an entirely different context from the quote.

The quote also doesn't insinuate we are taking a pass on will & determination or whatever intangibles you can attach to a player's personality. The quote is saying that for players of draft age, you can't teach skill but you can teach work ethic - which I think is entirely true. This is why they are so heavily focused on creating a better culture in the organization.

 

[VanJack]

This wouldn’t be of concern for Vitali, he wouldn’t be conscripted. He comes from a powerful family in Russia and his dad was a top ranking KGB agent. His dad is literally banned from the US because of who he is

But based on news reports, being part of the so-called 'inner circle' in Russia is no guarantee of safety or security either.

Can't imagine that any professional hockey player from Russia, if given a choice,. wouldn't choose playing in N.A., even if means a trip to the AHL.

 

[Svencouver]

If you actually watch him for a few years, you will realize he is a centre.

If you run a team and make him play wing, he will fail and then everyone will say it's Krav's fault but really it's because he does virtually none of things wingers are good at and most of the things that centres are good at.

So he will continue to fail because the Canucks are clueless at so many levels.

Similar to EP in that regard. High skill, not amazing at board work, okay at puck battles. EP has improved quite a bit in those areas, though; but I do remember a time, as do we all, that it seemed like EP had just checked out entirely and there was no will or intensity there anymore. Krav controls his own destiny here, he has every opportunity to have the year of development away from NYR he's needed and plenty of chances to play in the lineup. There will be a lot of competition for those spots, so hopefully he understands what he has to do to fight for one.

 

[MarkMM]

I think you've taken what he said out of context. I think he's referring to 17 yr olds about to be drafted. When we talk about Kravtsov we're looking at a player that should be hitting his prime at 23 - it's an entirely different context from the quote.

The quote also doesn't insinuate we are taking a pass on will & determination or whatever intangibles you can attach to a player's personality. The quote is saying that for players of draft age, you can't teach skill but you can teach work ethic - which I think is entirely true. This is why they are so heavily focused on creating a better culture in the organization.

Oh I know he's referring to 17 year olds about to be drafted, and it's the idea that you can teach work ethic that I think shouldn't be accepted so easily. Maturity, work ethic and discipline are things that I would value highly in a player because they're often the best indicator of whether a player will grow into their potential, even if they on the surface might lack skill.

Kesler was supposedly an "elite third line centre" but worked on his shot to make himself a 40 goal-scorer, Horvat had questionable skating and worked on it to turn it into a strength, while if you look at players seen to be more skilled (like Jeff Tambellini which I preferred over Kesler because he was seen to have more upside) having skill without will doesn't get you far, and that's often the downfall of so many promising high potential draft picks.

I'm not in favour of drafting a high hustle character player with a projection of being a complementary depth player because #intangibles, but I also would lean towards passing on a player that may have very high skill but who have questions about their work ethic. "Everyone works hard at this level" is just so provably wrong and has bitten so many teams.

 

[NickyFotiu]

His issue was with Hartford not with the AHL as a whole, so I think he would be willing. He’s said before he would be. Several players had issues with Hartford, another player (Reaunianen) exercised his European out clause before Krav did the same season, Krav actually reported to Hartford and played there for a while first. Lundkvist refused to report to training camp altogether. Sean Day requested a trade when he was in Hartford, so did Ryan Gropp. Hartford is rotten to the core

It was never supposed to be how Krav played after the trade to the Canucks.
The Rangers can not develop young players.
Hartford is a bad place.
Russian players aren't trained properly.
Its Gallant.
Its Quinn.
Its Drury.
Looking forward to some new material next season

 

[EdJovanovski]

It was never supposed to be how Krav played after the trade to the Canucks.
The Rangers can not develop young players.
Hartford is a bad place.
Russian players aren't trained properly.
Its Gallant.
Its Quinn.
Its Drury.
Looking forward to some new material next season

You’ll never hear the end of it when he goes on to outscore both Laf & Kakko

 

[VanJack]

In a way it's too bad the Canucks couldn't have found a way to get Kravstov to Abbotsford after he was acquired. Then they could have given him an extended audition at center and he would have participated in intense AHL playoff games.

Instead, he ended up being healthy scratched on a lot of nights; and didn't get a ton of ice time even in the games he played in.

And of course as we all know, these games in NHL garbage time really provide no clue on how a player fits in, in the long term.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You’ll never hear the end of it when he goes on to outscore both Laf & Kakko

Most of HF has heard a ton already from you when he scores 8 points so I would imagine that would increase if he scored 40 points. I expected him to score at least 70 this season based on your posts.

 

[RobertKron]

In a way it's too bad the Canucks couldn't have found a way to get Kravstov to Abbotsford after he was acquired. Then they could have given him an extended audition at center and he would have participated in intense AHL playoff games.

Instead, he ended up being healthy scratched on a lot of nights; and didn't get a ton of ice time even in the games he played in.

And of course as we all know, these games in NHL garbage time really provide no clue on how a player fits in, in the long term.

Like a month ago you were talking about how the games that McWard, Hirose, and Mcdonough played had "exploded" the myths about them.

 

[F A N]

He’s not 24 lol, he turned 23, 4 months ago. But look at the track record that the Rangers have with other forward prospects: Lafreniere, Kakko, Andersson. They all actually have similar issues with conditioning and being gassed at ends of shifts. Especially when he’s going weeks on end without playing a game it’s tough to stay in game shape. From what I see of the Canucks practices/training and how young guys develop there, I have more faith in them getting Kravs conditioning on point than the Rangers. Russia is also notorious for poor conditioning, a lot of players come from there with poor conditioning and really weak strength. Buchnevich for example kept re-injuring his back his rookie season due to lack of core strength and AV said it looked like he’d never stepped foot in a gym in his life.

The Canucks do have a new coach and strength and conditioning staff so there's not a lot of history to go by. I'm not sure Tocchett is necessarily good with young players. I don't htink he ruined anyone but guys like Keller and Hayton came into their own after Tocchet left?

The Canucks have also targeted players under Benning/Brackett who have a high motor so the young players that have managed to look good conditioning wise are guys were going to look good conditioning wise regardless of who they play for. Then there are guys like Juolevi who have struggled with their conditioning.

I know you're a big fan of Kratsov. But regardless of the reasons you have to acknowledge that he's missed a ton of development time. He might have been better saying in the KHL instead of shuttling back and forth.