Player Discussion Vincent Trocheck

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Canes fan coming in peace here... eventhough, goddamnit I hate your team (mostly because you've had elite talent will their way onto your team but whatever).

Wanted to check in and see our boy Vinnie Chase was fitting in and seeing his stat line and reading comments, it looks like he's doing well for you guys. I always liked Tro on the Canes and you all saw him up close before him joining the Rangers so you probably had a bit of an idea of what you were getting. But after seeing on the Canes for 2.5 years here's my take on what you can expect...

The Good
- 200 ft game
- Non-stop motor
- Good but not elite speed
- Deceptively good shot (can kind of score from anywhere)
- Goes to the dirty areas
- Plays physical
- Good faceoff guy
- Can play in all situations EV, PP, PK... maybe not the best in OT though
- One of the best agitators when he wants to be
- Can slot up and down the line up and generally can find chemistry with different types of players
- Pretty much a slam dunk for 50-55 pts but when he's at his peak he could hit 70-75 in the right situation

The Bad
- Injury concern... part of this is just the way he is, and part of it is the way he plays... which is too big and aggressive for his frame
- He can wear down as the season goes along... see above
- Will take dumb penalties... and often at bad times
- Can score an empty net goal but sometimes has questionable decision making in crunch time
- Tries to do too much... he has decent speed and hands but he will try to rush into the offensive zone all by himself and take on 2-4 players... he will pull of some cool moves but then ultimately flub it and fall down or something and then there's a breakout the other way... this is why I don't feel he's great in OT
- On the good I mentioned faceoffs and overall he has a great % but hot damn if in crunch time situations where YOU NEED A WIN for whatever reason it seems like he never gets it done... probably and almost certainly confirmation bias but something I noticed of him
- Can get emotional and that leads to the bad penalties or bad decision making... the emotion can be a good thing as well but you ride the highs and lows

Should also say he seemed to be very well liked in the locker room. Don't know if I would call him a leader exactly but I think he's a guy that helps team morale. I wouldn't maybe call him an elite 2C but definitely a very solid, above average one.

I was surprised you got him for so little AAV... like I was sure he was getting over 6 and maybe even close to 7... but as we saw this offseason the money just wasn't there for the non-elite players... look at Kadri. Sure the term is too long but that's always going to happen in UFA. The last few years likely won't look great but not horrible... my only concern would be injuries and his body breaking down. So much of what Tro brings is that fire and tenacity in that style of play. If he can't do that full tilt then I would wonder how effective he would be but those are bridges you cross down the road.

Anyway, that's my take. Hope you all lose every game. I hate that we didn't get to see a Slavin - Fox pairing in Carolina.
Your summary lines up very well to what we have seen from him so far this season, thankfully there hasn't been any bad penalties so far that I can remember. His motor and willingness to attack is a welcome sight on a team that does like to pull up, skate around guys or settle for a pass across the ice.
 
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Your boy panny is ruining him like everyone else he plays with 😝
He played well with kreid vesey
I do however find it interesting that he was suppose to be a defensive upgrade from strome yet he doesnt even kill penalties and GG just called him and pan out for their 5v5 defensive play
He's better at FOs and he shoots a lot more but his IQ is lower and he may be the worst passer on the team
As we both knew from when he signed, he belongs on a third line, north south, speed line that can grind
 
Like others have said, Kreider-Trochek-Vesey 3rd line would be so good, too bad our coach has the imagination and creativity of a slug and thinks "ooga booga 16 must go with 10 mhmmmm *drool* *fart*"
 
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Can we talk about Trocheck versus other options for a second line center during the offseason? It seems that virtually everyone here agreed that we needed to solve the issue of a second line center, or at least if you thought Chytil could fill the role, we needed a third line center.

Other options during the offseason that people wanted were:

Andrew Copp: 5 goals, 25 points so far through the first half on a team that is underperforming. Not that they were expected to be playoffs, but everybody thought they would contend at least.
Ryan Strome: 10 goals, 25 points, and minus a billion. On a team that had aspirations to take the next step and instead has taken a giant leap backwards.
J.T. Miller: 18 goals, 44 points, and minus a billion. Agreed to be a big step backward this year and a bad team. Plus he is $2.5M more a year.
Paul Stanstny: 5 goals, 19 points, but objectively maybe could've been even better for the Rangers and MUCH cheaper.
Nazem Kadri: 19 goals, 38 points, 2 million dollars more and does almost all of it on the PP.

Vinny has 14 goals and 34 points and was terribly snakebitten for much of the year, hitting every pipe in every arena. So did Drury do pretty great in his signing? Would you rather have one of the players above? Would you rather have traded one of the kids?
 
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Good comparo. Can you put Fil there too?

Trocheck is a good player. Okay, not great contract. AAV isn't bad but the back end of the deal will be very ugly. Wish we could've seen some creative sign-and-trade-with-retention type stuff for some combination of Miller, Strome, Copp. All guys who've done well (or well enough) here. But the NHL hasn't figured that stuff out yet.
 
AAV isn't bad but the back end of the deal will be very ugly.
After next year it drops to a NTC instead of a NMC. The contract is front loaded and has a 3 million dollar signing bonus every year. We will be able to move him if we want.
 
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NYR mgmt continues to screw the team by placing zero faith in the youth.

Chytil was there and ready to take over the 2nd center spot, would have had plenty of money to extend him, but Rongos can't help themselves.
 
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NYR mgmt continues to screw the team by placing zero faith in the youth.

Chytil was there and ready to take over the 2nd center spot, would have had plenty of money to extend him, but Rongos can't help themselves.
I don't think it was a wrong move. Trocheck should be worth his weight in gold come Playoffs.

You need a strong top9. The middle6 Centers are interchangeable.

It's the coaching staff using Trocheck instead of Chytil.
 
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I don't think it was a wrong move. Trocheck should be worth his weight in gold come Playoffs.

You need a strong top9. The middle6 Centers are interchangeable.

It's the coaching staff using Trocheck instead of Chytil.
Trochek hogging up that final PP1 spot is enough to make it a horrible move. Of course if we had a coach who wasn't a troglodyte it wouldn't matter, but sadly we do.
 
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Trocheck has put up more points against playoff level competition than everyone on the team other than Zibanejad and Fox (he’s tied with the latter.)

He’s been fine. Don’t fall for the jovo bait bc he needs to justify Panarin underperforming and Kravtsov sucking.
Not being a smart ass, but if you have the info on stats against playoff teams then can you post it and also share the 5v5 production vs the pp production against those teams? I'm curious. Thanks
 
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Not being a smart ass, but if you have the info on stats against playoff teams then can you post it and also share the 5v5 production vs the pp production against those teams? I'm curious. Thanks

Minnesota: 1-1-2 in 2 GP (both ES)
Dallas 2-2-4 in 2 GP (1 PP, 1 6 on 5, 2 ES)
Seattle 1-1-2 in 1 GP (both PP)
NJ 1-2-3 in 3 GP (2 PP, 1 ES)
Vegas 1-2-3 in 2 GP (1 PP, 2 ES)
Toronto 0-2-2 in 2 GP (both ES)
Pittsburgh 0-2-2 in 1 GP (both ES)
Los Angels 1-0-1 in 1 GP (ES)
Winnipeg 0-0-1 in 1 GP (ES)

I actually miscalculated initially, he's tied for the team lead with 20 against playoff competition and the break down is as such..

13 ES, 6 PP, 1 6v5 (Assist on the K'Andre buzzer beater vs Dallas.)
 
Minnesota: 1-1-2 in 2 GP (both ES)
Dallas 2-2-4 in 2 GP (1 PP, 1 6 on 5, 2 ES)
Seattle 1-1-2 in 1 GP (both PP)
NJ 1-2-3 in 3 GP (2 PP, 1 ES)
Vegas 1-2-3 in 2 GP (1 PP, 2 ES)
Toronto 0-2-2 in 2 GP (both ES)
Pittsburgh 0-2-2 in 1 GP (both ES)
Los Angels 1-0-1 in 1 GP (ES)
Winnipeg 0-0-1 in 1 GP (ES)

I actually miscalculated initially, he's tied for the team lead with 20 against playoff competition and the break down is as such..

13 ES, 6 PP, 1 6v5 (Assist on the K'Andre buzzer beater vs Dallas.)
If he can maintain this into the spring and through the playoffs I will be THRILLED. I want this to work, I'm just skeptical. I think everything changes for me if panarin is somehow not here after this summer and we have flexibility and our roster is realigned. Thanks for this!
 
Trochek has had some really ugly moments this year but he's also been really unlucky. He's like at the bottom of the league in actual GF v.s. expected GF.

I think he's an asset to the team, just doesn't go well with Panarin.
 
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Trochek has had some really ugly moments this year but he's also been really unlucky. He's like at the bottom of the league in actual GF v.s. expected GF.

I think he's an asset to the team, just doesn't go well with Panarin.
He's kind of an asset we didn't need but it's because of this poverty ass league that we even have to worry about that. It's not Trocheck's fault.
 
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Can we talk about Trocheck versus other options for a second line center during the offseason? It seems that virtually everyone here agreed that we needed to solve the issue of a second line center, or at least if you thought Chytil could fill the role, we needed a third line center.

Other options during the offseason that people wanted were:

Andrew Copp: 5 goals, 25 points so far through the first half on a team that is underperforming. Not that they were expected to be playoffs, but everybody thought they would contend at least.
Ryan Strome: 10 goals, 25 points, and minus a billion. On a team that had aspirations to take the next step and instead has taken a giant leap backwards.
J.T. Miller: 18 goals, 44 points, and minus a billion. Agreed to be a big step backward this year and a bad team. Plus he is $2.5M more a year.
Paul Stanstny: 5 goals, 19 points, but objectively maybe could've been even better for the Rangers and MUCH cheaper.
Nazem Kadri: 19 goals, 38 points, 2 million dollars more and does almost all of it on the PP.

Vinny has 14 goals and 34 points and was terribly snakebitten for much of the year, hitting every pipe in every arena. So did Drury do pretty great in his signing? Would you rather have one of the players above? Would you rather have traded one of the kids?
I was advocating for Stastny in the summer. He actually has 16 points (not 19) in 50 games. He's on pace for about 26 points, which is perhaps a bit low for a good 3rd liner, but better than a 4th liner. I don't know who he is playing with in Carolina. Maybe he would have done better here.

In retrospect, even if we would have been a worse team for it (now), Stastny might have been the better option than Trocheck. Trocheck has been better, no doubt, but with Stastny, Chytil could have gotten a bigger role and we'd have significantly more cap space this summer. Maybe Timo Meier could have been more than a pipe dream.

Trocheck has 2 more years before the NMC changes to an NTC. I'm hoping we sign Chytil for 4+ years, then move Trocheck in 2 years and let Chytil take the 2C spot.
 
I was advocating for Stastny in the summer. He actually has 16 points (not 19) in 50 games. He's on pace for about 26 points, which is perhaps a bit low for a good 3rd liner, but better than a 4th liner. I don't know who he is playing with in Carolina. Maybe he would have done better here.

In retrospect, even if we would have been a worse team for it (now), Stastny might have been the better option than Trocheck. Trocheck has been better, no doubt, but with Stastny, Chytil could have gotten a bigger role and we'd have significantly more cap space this summer. Maybe Timo Meier could have been more than a pipe dream.

Trocheck has 2 more years before the NMC changes to an NTC. I'm hoping we sign Chytil for 4+ years, then move Trocheck in 2 years and let Chytil take the 2C spot.

Stastny would’ve been a solid option for us but he’s 38 and it’s short term. Locking in Trocheck who can be an effective (or tradeable) player into his 30s for us is valuable. Would it have been preferable to be signing a Larkin or Horvat this off-season for 8+? Idk, but the plan was always clearly to have 3 good centers
 

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