Player Discussion Vincent Trocheck

[The S5]

You're posting on a message board that is based on opinion and essentially telling me that your speculation is more creditable then my speculation, except my concerns about these kinds of contracts aging poorly has literally years of history to support my stance.

Point taken, but what is the alternative? Field a team of entry level contracts? Every team has contracts that may not age well. That is the nature of the game.
Where I agree with you entirely is when a team gives a player a "thank you for your service contract". Yes, Hank got one of those.

 

[Levitate]

Point taken, but what is the alternative? Field a team of entry level contracts? Every team has contracts that may not age well. That is the nature of the game.
Where I agree with you entirely is when a team gives a player a "thank you for your service contract". Yes, Hank got one of those.

Hank at least "earned it" for awhile (if you think great goalies are worth paying for) but yeah the end was easy to see coming on that one.
Kreider is kind of a "thanks for your service" contract, in that I think a large reason they kept him was also because they feel his work ethic around the team is a big plus for the young players and kind of keeping the other players accountable for their professionalism as well. He's not captain but he's in some ways becoming kind of the media face for the team who will go out there and say what neeeds to be said after a game, etc

But anyways, right now I don't think the Rangers have any "bad bad" contracts and some of them might have been done differently if the pandemic was known to be throwing a wrench into things

 

[bleedblue94]

Point taken, but what is the alternative? Field a team of entry level contracts? Every team has contracts that may not age well. That is the nature of the game.
Where I agree with you entirely is when a team gives a player a "thank you for your service contract". Yes, Hank got one of those.

Again, I have no issue carrying 2-3 late 20 or early 30 vets on big deals, but having over 39% of your team cap tied up into 4 players that are either into or about to enter their 30s AND who all have significant term is not a good place to be.

The first of those four deals to expire will be panarin after FOUR MORE SEASONS. That is my concern. During that time you will need to sign players on the upswing that will be demanding significant pay bc they are young and good, while you will be carrying these four contracts. Everyone likes to target and shit all over trouba but he is the least of my concerns right now. If you want to lump trouba into this (I dont think he should be since his deal will expire when he is 31 and is perfect timing for a contract like his) you have over 40% of the team cap tied up into 5 players.

Miller is going to be in line for a massive raise soon, laffy is going to need to get paid soon especially if he pops, and igor is three years away from a big raise. add that up and realize that you are locked in and will be paying assets to dump contracts (again) bc of the situation that has been constructed here unless panarin's contract magically disappears in a couple of years.

 

[bhamill]

Again, I have no issue carrying 2-3 late 20 or early 30 vets on big deals, but having over 39% of your team cap tied up into 4 players that are either into or about to enter their 30s AND who all have significant term is not a good place to be.

The first of those four deals to expire will be panarin after FOUR MORE SEASONS. That is my concern. During that time you will need to sign players on the upswing that will be demanding significant pay bc they are young and good, while you will be carrying these four contracts. Everyone likes to target and shit all over trouba but he is the least of my concerns right now. If you want to lump trouba into this (I dont think he should be since his deal will expire when he is 31 and is perfect timing for a contract like his) you have over 40% of the team cap tied up into 5 players.

Miller is going to be in line for a massive raise soon, laffy is going to need to get paid soon especially if he pops, and igor is three years away from a big raise. add that up and realize that you are locked in and will be paying assets to dump contracts (again) bc of the situation that has been constructed here unless panarin's contract magically disappears in a couple of years.

It really just depends on the players. Are they the sort to decline heavily? Kreider is a freak. I could see that guy scoring goals into his 40's if he wants to, he will be 35 starting his contract's last year. Is Mika going to fall off by 33? Doubtful. Trouba will be 31 to start his contract's last season in '25, still prime years for a DMan. Panarin will be 33 at the start of his last year... also '25. Goodrow will be 33, in '26. These arent your typical Vet reward/free agent/take you to 36 year old shadow of yourself contracts, and players are better conditioned and having longer careers than they used to have anyway. Plus aside from Panarin, there are reasonable outs on all of these contracts. So it's the players, the contracts, the coming cap peaks AND changing times that mitigate, for me, the kind of fears you have.
These are all key players. If you want to win, eventually you are going to have some very big veteran contracts. You aren't going to win with a roster of ELCs and RFA year contracts with just 2 or 3 key (big contract) vets sprinkled in.

 

[Zarao71]

Next year is gonna be tight cap wise. Miller, Laff, Chytil, Kravstov, Jones and Blais all up for new contracts.
Miller is due for a big pay raise. 5x4years easy. Laff is going nowhere. We don't have anyone in the pipe to replace Chytil. At minimum 1 of Kappo, Blais, Kravstov are gone next year.

 

[bleedblue94]

It really just depends on the players. Are they the sort to decline heavily? Kreider is a freak. I could see that guy scoring goals into his 40's if he wants to, he will be 35 starting his contract's last year. Is Mika going to fall off by 33? Doubtful. Trouba will be 31 to start his contract's last season in '25, still prime years for a DMan. Panarin will be 33 at the start of his last year... also '25. Goodrow will be 33, in '26. These arent your typical Vet reward/free agent/take you to 36 year old shadow of yourself contracts, and players are better conditioned and having longer careers than they used to have anyway. Plus aside from Panarin, there are reasonable outs on all of these contracts. So it's the players, the contracts, the coming cap peaks AND changing times that mitigate, for me, the kind of fears you have.
These are all key players. If you want to win, eventually you are going to have some very big veteran contracts. You aren't going to win with a roster of ELCs and RFA year contracts with just 2 or 3 key (big contract) vets sprinkled in.

Every part of the post is rosey glasses. History has taught us it doesn't play out that way. Goodrow's 3.6 isn't fixing the issues that are looming. Ltir is going to become the new safe word on this board within the next 3 years.

 

[Off Sides]

Every part of the post is rosey glasses. History has taught us it doesn't play out that way. Goodrow's 3.6 isn't fixing the issues that are looming. Ltir is going to become the new safe word on this board within the next 3 years.

If they buyout Goodrow next off-season, they get his cap space and a small cap credit for two years. It may not solve everything, (and cause issues in the next couple years after) yet it does give them some relief. Kreider, Trouba clauses turn in 24, Trochecks in 25. Lindgren extended or traded, the cap may go up in those years.

They at least have some options. While I share your concerns about the long term older guys and their very plausible decline, they might be able to figure it out.

 

[duhmetreE]

Every part of the post is rosey glasses. History has taught us it doesn't play out that way. Goodrow's 3.6 isn't fixing the issues that are looming. Ltir is going to become the new safe word on this board within the next 3 years.

better than buyout

We have to scrape by next offseason. Do that and everything else will fall into place

 

[bleedblue94]

If they buyout Goodrow next off-season, they get his cap space and a small cap credit for two years. It may not solve everything, (and cause issues in the next couple years after) yet it does give them some relief. Kreider, Trouba clauses turn in 24, Trochecks in 25. Lindgren extended or traded, the cap may go up in those years.

They at least have some options. While I share your concerns about the long term older guys and their very plausible decline, they might be able to figure it out.

They aren't buying goodrow out, stop

 

[Off Sides]

They aren't buying goodrow out, stop

Well, if I were to advise them, that is what I'd recommend.

Edit: that is if they do not trade him, even if they took less cap hit back, or retained, that too may be an option.

 

[bleedblue94]

Well, if I were to advise them, that is what I'd recommend.

Edit: that is if they do not trade him, even if they took less cap hit back, or retained, that too may be an option.

I think people will forget how important goodrow is to this team in the playoffs until we get back to playoff hockey again. He's an easy guy to marginalize during the regular season but invaluable during the playoffs.

 

[Off Sides]

I think people will forget how important goodrow is to this team in the playoffs until we get back to playoff hockey again. He's an easy guy to marginalize during the regular season but invaluable during the playoffs.

For last year, I agree for the most part.

By the end of this year I think it will be seen a little differently.

Two years of the cap relief, helps towards signing all the RFAs. I think it will come down to, if the forward RFAs do well they will pick them, if not then maybe some of them get moved instead. Yet Lindgren also plays a part here, yet I don't think they'll have a good replacement for his role by the end of the year. I think Miller will be awesome, yet 2nd or even 3rd pair LD, Lindgren will still be seen as a player for that.

 

[NYR2007]

He did not impress me tonight at all. He did win a decent amount of face offs tho

Seemed to force passes when the play wasn’t there. I really hope this isn’t a sign of things to come , that’s the last thing the rangers need

 

[bleedblue94]

For last year, I agree for the most part.

By the end of this year I think it will be seen a little differently.

Two years of the cap relief, helps towards signing all the RFAs. I think it will come down to, if the forward RFAs do well they will pick them, if not then maybe some of them get moved instead. Yet Lindgren also plays a part here, yet I don't think they'll have a good replacement for his role by the end of the year. I think Miller will be awesome, yet 2nd or even 3rd pair LD, Lindgren will still be seen as a player for that.

I don't want fox and Miller together, people clamor for it and it doesn't make sense. Have we have two #1 or potential #1 d men why play them together rather then have to on opposite each other so they each can control the game on their own shifts. I thought they did a great job with that last year and then putting them together when there were pushes to be made. Not a fan of putting them together all the time, Lindy has his spot here long term w fox at least until his contract expires.

 

[Off Sides]

I don't want fox and Miller together, people clamor for it and it doesn't make sense. Have we have two #1 or potential #1 d men why play them together rather then have to on opposite each other so they each can control the game on their own shifts. I thought they did a great job with that last year and then putting them together when there were pushes to be made. Not a fan of putting them together all the time, Lindy has his spot here long term w fox at least until his contract expires.

I agree, not saying they should be put together, More so they both have top pair ability which should make for 2 good pairs no matter what they do.

Yet that does not mean Lindgren and eventually Trouba are part of that. If I had a choice, I'd keep Lindgren for his cap hit now and future over Trouba, yet the Rangers are not going to see it that way.

 

[Kocur26]

Every part of the post is rosey glasses. History has taught us it doesn't play out that way. Goodrow's 3.6 isn't fixing the issues that are looming. Ltir is going to become the new safe word on this board within the next 3 years.

Long term IR for whom ?

They aren't buying goodrow out, stop

Why not ? Years end very good chance he’s gone .

 

[bleedblue94]

Long term IR for whom ?

Who knows, but the point is when this team is stuck w these contracts and completely squeezed panicking to sign laffy Miller and others long term these contracts aren't going to just vanish to make the space. It's not a good mix on the cap sheet, especially if any start slipping prematurely. Most other teams in our cap situation don't have multiple young tip talents closing in on their first real paydays the way we do.

Long term IR for whom ?


Why not ? Years end very good chance he’s gone .

Dream on, Drury brought him here to be a playoff impact player. He did his job perfectly and made a big difference. It's no mistake the team was different with him in the lineup during the playoffs. Easy guy to marginalize but he's a playoff guy that you want

 

[will1066]

Buyer's remorse? Maybe should have re-signed Strome?

 

[mas0764]

Why is it assumed that the so called aging core (Mika/Kreider/Trouba/Panarin) is going to fall off a cliff all of a sudden? 3 are coming off excellent/career years and Panarin was off but still produced at an elite level. It’s not like we haven’t seen important players around the league succeed into their mid to late 30s.

Because statistically speaking most players do not continue to play at the same high levels into their mid 30’s. To have all four of them do it would be quite the anomaly. I think one or two might, my money would have been on Panarin.

 

[mas0764]

Lafreniere and Kakko becoming what they're capable of becoming puts us over the top. Rangers won't win a Cup before then.

Agreed. You can add solid upgrades to weak spots all day long with guys like Trocheck - and to be fair, it is necessary to clear up weak spots to win too - but you also won’t win till you have the requisite star power and until we have a couple kids reach those heights, we lack it.

 

[mas0764]

The expectation was to make the playoffs and contend a bit. Let's be serious, if pitt has even NHL average goaltending we don't win that series. Getting to game 6 of the conference finals was a magical run that they had no business making, but it was invaluable to the youth of the team.

I did not criticize sign zib so I don't know why you're defending it like I did. Of course they had to sign zib, and his contract is fine.

I think you're missing my point. Im not advocating against signing anyone to a long term deal in their late 20s. I said repeatedly that I am fine with 2 or 3 of those kind of deals, but adding a 4th with what we have coming in the next couple of years I'm terms of contracts that will be due is handcuffing ourselves, and you're coming into this kind of late bc what I was arguing against was people either saying we can just dump Vinny's contract elsewhere in a couple years or buy him out (both bad things to count on), or saying that the cap rising will lessen the contract issues, but the cap is going to go up about 10m if it's one shot or two years of 5m each. Either way that really isn't a lot of money in the grand scheme of things when it starts to get distributed. Carrying Kreider, panarin, Vinny, and zib at over 39% of the team cap is dangerous given the term remaining and their age mixed with the money that the team needs to shake loose sooner rather than later. Everyone talks about laffy needing a contract but I don't think most people are processing what Miller is going to command if his offense even mildly develops. I've been saying for awhile he has hedman lite tools, and while he will never be hedman he very well may develop into a 40-50pt horse of a defenseman which is going to be VERY expensive.

No one liked to hear it but some fan favorite is getting moved. Kreider, Trouba, who knows, maybe Panarin. It will be someone.

Again, I have no issue carrying 2-3 late 20 or early 30 vets on big deals, but having over 39% of your team cap tied up into 4 players that are either into or about to enter their 30s AND who all have significant term is not a good place to be.

The first of those four deals to expire will be panarin after FOUR MORE SEASONS. That is my concern. During that time you will need to sign players on the upswing that will be demanding significant pay bc they are young and good, while you will be carrying these four contracts. Everyone likes to target and shit all over trouba but he is the least of my concerns right now. If you want to lump trouba into this (I dont think he should be since his deal will expire when he is 31 and is perfect timing for a contract like his) you have over 40% of the team cap tied up into 5 players.

Miller is going to be in line for a massive raise soon, laffy is going to need to get paid soon especially if he pops, and igor is three years away from a big raise. add that up and realize that you are locked in and will be paying assets to dump contracts (again) bc of the situation that has been constructed here unless panarin's contract magically disappears in a couple of years.

Yeah I love it when you suggest that the team can’t afford to carry both Trouba and Kreider and the retort is that I must want to rebuild forever, as if the team isn’t carrying plenty of other veterans.

 

[Kocur26]

Who knows, but the point is when this team is stuck w these contracts and completely squeezed panicking to sign laffy Miller and others long term these contracts aren't going to just vanish to make the space. It's not a good mix on the cap sheet, especially if any start slipping prematurely. Most other teams in our cap situation don't have multiple young tip talents closing in on their first real paydays the way we do.


Dream on, Drury brought him here to be a playoff impact player. He did his job perfectly and made a big difference. It's no mistake the team was different with him in the lineup during the playoffs. Easy guy to marginalize but he's a playoff guy that you want

The Cap is going up … don’t worry about things that don’t exist ; yet.

Chris Kreider could wind up in LA on draft day .

 

[bleedblue94]

No one liked to hear it but some fan favorite is getting moved. Kreider, Trouba, who knows, maybe Panarin. It will be someone.

Panarin is the most obvious to move. Third highest cap hit in the league this year and plays a position that we have a lot of depth in, also about to turn 31, BUT he has the nmc so not likely at all.

Kreider is prob returning here, don't underestimate his bromance with the center the franchise just resigned.

Trouba was just named Captain and is signed long term. This org isn't going through Cally 2.0 trading their captain shortly after naming him after going years with no captain since the mac trade.

It's a mess brewing.

 

[mas0764]

Next year is gonna be tight cap wise. Miller, Laff, Chytil, Kravstov, Jones and Blais all up for new contracts.
Miller is due for a big pay raise. 5x4years easy. Laff is going nowhere. We don't have anyone in the pipe to replace Chytil. At minimum 1 of Kappo, Blais, Kravstov are gone next year.

Bye Blais.

But more likely a vet is gone. Trouba would have been the smartest move but at this point it’s way more likely to be Goodrow. Kreider a potential dark horse. He can return assets and we have young wingers to replace him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't want fox and Miller together, people clamor for it and it doesn't make sense. Have we have two #1 or potential #1 d men why play them together rather then have to on opposite each other so they each can control the game on their own shifts. I thought they did a great job with that last year and then putting them together when there were pushes to be made. Not a fan of putting them together all the time, Lindy has his spot here long term w fox at least until his contract expires.

There is a case to be made for Miller-Fox... Really more so because of Trouba...

Lindgren plays low event hockey, Trouba is like the very definition of a high event player (Everyone gets scoring chances.) Pairing the 2 of them may help bring some of the craziness down when Trouba is out there.

Meanwhile, Key's defensive metrics are pretty sparkling away from Trouba and he would easily tilt the ice the other way with Fox which is where you really want AF to play since its where he shines the most.

If Lindgren were better in transition, I would probably push for this to happen more. Assuming Jones makes the team we would have at the very least 3 capable puck movers on the defense with one being on each pair.

Let's be serious, if pitt has even NHL average goaltending we don't win that series.

That sounds like a Pittsburgh problem.

And before anyone says it Jarry isn't that guy either. Peep his numbers in the 2nd half before he got hurt, he was dreadful.