Vezina Trophy Shares 1982-2020

[TheDevilMadeMe]

NHL.com agrees with canon.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8447687&view=notes

As does TSN.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=126&hubname=nhl-red_wings

It would be interesting to see the original source.

Based on what TheoKritos posted, it appears to be from Tip Magazine... Whatever that is. I would love to see their "best goaltender" awards for every year

 

[reckoning]

I decided to add the all-star results from 68-69 to 80-81 to see what it would look like. The voting in those years was the same 5-3-1 format, the only difference was that those years the voters were writers instead of GMs.

player|times|share
Martin Brodeur|15|5.4072
Ken Dryden|7|4.7817
Dominik Hasek|11|4.7591
Patrick Roy|17|4.6216
Tony Esposito|12|4.1564
Ed Belfour|11|2.5044
Bernie Parent|9|2.2239
Tom Barrasso|7|1.9833
Mike Liut|7|1.8349
Ed Giacomin|5|1.8291
Glenn Resch|7|1.6855
Grant Fuhr|8|1.5901
Rogie Vachon|6|1.5778
Roberto Luongo|7|1.5600
Tim Thomas|3|1.5533
John Vanbiesbrouck|9|1.5329
Henrik Lundqvist|7|1.4933
Miikka Kiprusoff|7|1.4333

Dryden's score is just ridiculous for a career as brief as his. Esposito's longevity of consistent high-level play was extraordinary. I'm actually surprised Parent didn't finish higher. It's unfortunate that Glenn Resch hit his peak before the Isles Cup dynasty, as it's caused some to overlook how good he was in the 70s.

 

[seventieslord]

Esposito has always been in the very upper crust of elite regular season goalies; it's just not something you see people acknowledge all that often. Too many people want to think that the real Esposito is the one from the 99 playoff games, half of which were played against a team top-3 in the league offensively.

I am pretty sure GVT still has him 2nd all-time, which is pretty impressive.

The Parent/Esposito thing is really interesting, because I think three things are clear:

- Esposito was always better than Parent, from 1969-1980.
- Except for 1974 and 1975, when Parent was better.
- And not only was Parent better those two years, he was spectacularly better.

Does that make Parent the better all-time goalie?

These are two guys I've owned in the ATD and made passionate cases for. Esposito being the more recent one, maybe I am biased towards him.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Thanks for doing that, Reckoning. Do you have a full list or just the guys at the top?

 

[Theokritos]

What is "Tip" magazine?

I don't really know. Obviously a sports magazine, either covering different sports or only hockey.

And do you know if their "best goaltender" selection was based only off the current season or was it overall? Because Sindel beat out Hasek in Golden Stick voting in 1988, indicating he had a better season, but Hasek was the easy pick for best overall based on past performance. Or did Tip just have a different opinion on the season from Golden Stick voting?

Probably the latter. Kenny Jönsson was named the "Best Defender" in the 2006 Olympics, but Nicklas Lidström made the All-Star team instead of him. Different voters, different opinions. Another curious year is 1984. Jaromír Šindel (6th, 370 points) is clearly ahead of a 19 year old Dominik Hašek (9th, 221 points) in Zlatá hokejka voting, but in the Izvestia Golden Stick voting Hašek is the third best player in Europe just behind Fetisov and Tretiak. Now that's something I'd love to hear an explanation for!

 

[seventieslord]

Probably the latter. Kenny Jönsson was named the "Best Defender" in the 2006 Olympics, but Nicklas Lidström made the All-Star team instead of him. Different voters, different opinions.

There were actually a lot of times this happened, weren't there?

 

[BM67]

Tipsport is the biggest sport betting agency in the Czech Republic, and they sponsor the Extraliga, as well as running a couple of arenas. I assume they are connected to the magazine, but don't know for sure.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Updated post 2. 2012-13 runner up Henrik Lundqvist is now #6 in Vezina shares, and one more significant finish away from passing Tom Barrasso for #5.

Vezina winner Sergei Bobrovski had never received a single vote before. 3rd-6th place (Niemi, Anderson, Rask, Howard) all received a single vote or two on a single occasion before this season.

Ray Emery's single first place vote (technically finishing 7th) ties him with Manny Legace.

 

[seventieslord]

Ray Emery's single first place vote (technically finishing 7th) ties him with Manny Legace.

Sounds about right.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

better late than never: Updated through 2014

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Updated through 2015. Carey Price is the big riser with a dominant 0.96 share for the season. Pekke Rinne's solid runner up finish (0.40 share) saw him rise quite a bit, as well.

 

[Doctor No]

Price's 96% share is the biggest since Hasek in 1997-98 (97%). Only others in the ballpark are Peeters (100%) and Belfour (96%).

My list is updated here:
http://www.hockeygoalies.org/awards/vezinavoting.html

Although I hate single numbers as a value measurement, I like the relatively-nice correlation between 2014-15 Vezina votes and 2014-15 goals above replacement.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Updated through 2017.

Notable risers:

Due to unusually high consensus among the GMs who vote for the Vezina over the past few seasons, the past 2 years have seen the Vezina winners rocket up the chart (like Price did after 2015).

2016 Vezina winner Braden Holtby received a share of .9333 for his 2016 win and a strong .5800 share for his runner up finish in 2017 (which is comparable to the shares Hasek and Brodeur received for their 2001 and 2004 wins). 2017 Vezina winner Sergei Bobrovski received a .9200 for his 2017 win. As a result, these two rocketed up the chart, and now sit ahead of the likes of Fuhr, Luongo, Thomas, and Vanbiesbrouck by this metric.

Luongo himself snuck past Fuhr on the basis of his share for a 4th place finish in 2016.

Carey Price's .1267 share in 2017 was well below Bobrovsky and Holtby, but still good enough for 3rd place, and enough for him to jump two spots (above Nabokov and Rinne).

 

[frisco]

One guy that sort of stands out near the top is Barrasso (5th at 7/1.9833). The guys above him and around him are or will be crystal clear HOFers but he's not in yet (?). Can't really see what he's missing from his c.v.

My Best-Carey

 

[Doctor No]

Carey - great to have you on HFBoards (presuming that you're the same poster from the Strat-o-Matic forum)!

Regarding Barrasso, I don't think the flaws are in his CV (and I would have him inducted if I were able to do so).

 

[frisco]

Carey - great to have you on HFBoards (presuming that you're the same poster from the Strat-o-Matic forum)!

Regarding Barrasso, I don't think the flaws are in his CV (and I would have him inducted if I were able to do so).

Thanks! It's me the same guy. Love to see Barrasso go in. He came off overtly as a jerk but you'd think the voters would be mature enough not to hold that against him.

My Best-Carey

 

[Sadekuuro]

Love to see Barrasso go in. He came off overtly as a jerk but you'd think the voters would be mature enough not to hold that against him.

While Barrasso was reportedly a jerk to everyone, one suspects it was his disdain for the media in particular that keeps him out.

 

[blood gin]

While Barrasso was reportedly a jerk to everyone, one suspects it was his disdain for the media in particular that keeps him out.

Barrasso was a jerk of legendary proportions. Just not a good person. I think he's actually changed a lot since then. He currently works as a goalie coach and I've heard he's very positive and a good teacher. I wonder if he had some sort of personality disorder they they ended up treating.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I like this idea, so I decided to apply it to the Norris trophy. I used a 0.5% vote share as the cut-off (which is a very low barrier, but it's intended to exclude a player getting one or two throwaway votes).

Twenty-two years
Ray Bourque (1980-2001)

Sixteen years
Nicklas Lidstrom (1996-2012)

Twelve years
Pierre Pilote (1957-1968)

Eleven years
Chris Chelios (1998-2008)

Ten years
Doug Harvey (1954-1963)
Marcel Pronovost (1957-1966)
Tim Horton (1960-1969)
Paul Coffey (1982-1991)

Nine years
Bobby Orr (1967-1975)
Borje Salming (1974-1982)
Denis Potvin (1974-1982)
Shea Weber (2009-2017) (current)

Eight years
Rod Langway (1980-1987)
Scott Stevens (1996-2003)

Seven years
Bill Gadsby (1954-1960)
Brad Park (1970-1976)
Guy Lapointe (1973-1979)
Jacques Laperriere (1964-1970)
Rob Blake (1998-2004)
Tom Johnson (1954-1960)
Zdeno Chara (2008-2014)

There weren't too many surprises on the list, but Marcel Pronovost fared better than I thought.

As noted above, the player with the longest current streak is Shea Weber (currently at nine seasons). Ryan Suter's streak stands at six years; Drew Doughty and Duncan Keith are both at five.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Same thing, except this time it's a 5.0% threshold (which for many years I've used to designate a "significant" season).

Twenty-two years
Ray Bourque (1980-2001)

Sixteen years
Nicklas Lidstrom (1996-2012)

Ten years
Doug Harvey (1954-1963)
Pierre Pilote (1959-1968)

Nine years
Bobby Orr (1967-1975)

Seven years
Zdeno Chara (2008-2014)

Six years
Borje Salming (1975-1980)
Larry Robinson (1977-1982)
Rod Langway (1981-1986)

Five years
Bill Gadsby (1956-1960)
Brad Park (1970-1974)
Denis Potvin (1975-1979)
Fern Flaman (1955-1959)
Paul Coffey (1982-1986)
Rob Blake (2000-2004)
Sergei Gonchar (2000-2004)
Tim Horton (1961-1965)

Again the results aren't too surprising. I thought Coffey would have done a bit better, and I was surprised to see Flaman and Gonchar make the lists at all.

The longest current streak belongs to Erik Karlsson (four years). Nobody other active player has a streak of even two years.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Now the same thing for the Hart trophy, again with a 0.5% threshold:

Twenty years
Gordie Howe (1951-1970)

Twelve years
Wayne Gretzky (1980-1991)

Nine years
Bobby Orr (1967-1975)
Doug Harvey (1954-1962)

Eight years
Andy Bathgate (1956-1963)
Bobby Clarke (1971-1978)
Bobby Hull (1962-1969)

Seven years
Denis Potvin (1975-1981)
Glenn Hall (1958-1964)
Jaromir Jagr (1995-2001)
Phil Esposito (1968-1974)
Red Kelly (1950-1956)
Joe Thornton (2003-2010)

Six years
Guy Lafleur (1975-1980)
Milt Schmidt (1947-1952)
Stan Mikita (1963-1968)
Ted Kennedy (1950-1955)
Terry Sawchuk (1955-1960)

Five years
Bryan Trottier (1978-1982)
Darryl Sittler (1976-1980)
Larry Robinson (1977-1981)
Martin Brodeur (2003-2008)
Sidney Crosby (2013-2017) (current)
Tony Esposito (1970-1974)

Note that this list goes back to the 1946-47, which explains the absence of players like Maurice Richard, Howie Morenz, Eddie Shore, etc.

There are a few surprises here. Thornton and Sittler fared better than expected. Although I wouldn`t quite call them surprises, Harvey and Bathgate both look great according to this metric.

What more can be said about Gordie Howe? Everyone knows he was a top five scorer for twenty straight years, but how many know that he got at least a few (non-trivial) votes for the Hart for the same amount of time?

Crosby is the sole player with an active streak that qualifies for this list. Erik Karlsson has an active streak of three years, while Patrick Kane has two.

The biggest omission, obviously, is Mario Lemieux. Unfortunately, due to injuries, he never had a streak longer than four seasons.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Last post in this series. Here are the players with at least a 5.0% vote share for the Hart trophy:

Thirteen years
Gordie Howe (1957-1969)

Twelve years
Wayne Gretzky (1980-1991)

Nine years
Bobby Orr (1967-1975)

Six years
Bobby Clarke (1973-1978)
Bobby Hull (1964-1969)
Guy Lafleur (1975-1980)
Red Kelly (1951-1956)

Five years
Glenn Hall (1960-1964)
Gordie Howe (1951-1955)
Sidney Crosby (2013-2017) (current)

Four years
Doug Harvey (1955-1958)
Jaromir Jagr (1998-2001)
Mario Lemieux (1986-1989)
Phil Esposito (1971-1974)
Ted Kennedy (1950-1953)

Three years
Alexander Ovechkin (2008-2010)
Andy Bathgate (1957-1959)
Brett Hull (1990-1992)
Dominik Hasek (1997-1999)
Eric Lindros (1995-1997)
Jean Beliveau (1955-1957)
Joe Thornton (2006-2008)
Marcel Dionne (1979-1981)
Markus Naslund (2002-2004)
Milt Schmidt (1950-1952)
Rod Langway (1983-1985)
Ryan Getzlaf (2013-2015)
Stan Mikita (1963-1965)
Ted Lindsay (1948-1950)
Teemu Selanne (1997-1999)

Markus Naslund stands out on this list - but he really was an elite forward during his brief peak.

Most of these players had very high peaks, but it`s possible for a player to sneak in with a consistent, but relatively low, vote total. For example, Getzlaf finished 7th, 2nd, and 6th in consecutive years. It`s strange seeing him ranked alongside Lindros and Ovechkin.

Only Crosby has an active streak of three or more seasons. Patrick Kane's streak is currently at two.

Gordie Howe makes the list twice. He has five consecutive seasons on the list, gets injured, then rattles off thirteen more seasons.

A general note on these four posts - this was more of a manual process than I had hoped. If you see any errors/omissions, let me know.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I meant to post the above four posts in this thread - http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1506431. I'll see if I can move them.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Tables restored and updated through 2020.

Note that we are now seeing a trend of goalies amassing large Vezina shares in a limited number of seasons. It seems like GMs over the past decade have been significantly less split on who they vote for.

Previously, Tim Thomas's high share of 1.55 in 3 appearances was something of an outlier, but now we have Pekke Rinne (2.12 shares - 5th all time - in 5 appearances), Sergei Bobrovsky (1.72 shares in 5 appearances), Braden Holtby (1.68 shares in 3 appearances), Tuukka Rask (1.50 shares in 5 appearances), Connor Hellebucyk (1.35 shares in 2 appearances), and Andrei Vasilevski (1.29 shares in 3 appearances) join him near the top of the list.

Henrik Lundqvist (1.93 shares on 10 appearances and Carey Price (1.40 shares on 7 appearances) have more traditional splits.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Tables restored and updated through 2020.

Note that we are now seeing a trend of goalies amassing large Vezina shares in a limited number of seasons. It seems like GMs over the past decade have been significantly less split on who they vote for.

Previously, Tim Thomas's high share of 1.55 in 3 appearances was something of an outlier, but now we have Pekke Rinne (2.12 shares - 5th all time - in 5 appearances), Sergei Bobrovsky (1.72 shares in 5 appearances), Braden Holtby (1.68 shares in 3 appearances), Tuukka Rask (1.50 shares in 5 appearances), Connor Hellebucyk (1.35 shares in 2 appearances), and Andrei Vasilevski (1.29 shares in 3 appearances) join him near the top of the list.

Henrik Lundqvist (1.93 shares on 10 appearances and Carey Price (1.40 shares on 7 appearances) have more traditional splits.

We see the same trend with the Hart. Going back to WWII, six of the top ten winners with the largest shares are from the post-lockout period (McDavid 2021, McDavid 2023, Malkin 2012, Kucherov 2019, Ovechkin 2008, Crosby 2014). Proportionately, we only would have expected to see two or three.

In fact, eight of the top seasons (for largest share of the Hart vote, WWII-2023) have happened since 1992. And all of them have happened since 1980.

We can conclude that 1) there's less talent in the NHL today and therefore it's easier for a player to dominate the voting or 2) the voters rely more on stats and/or media narratives that emerge late in the season. The second reason is much more plausible. But it means that we probably shouldn't directly compare these results over time (unless someone wants to argue that Martin St. Louis > Howe/Hull/Beliveau because he won his Hart by a more decisive margin).