Confirmed with Link: Veleno to CHI for Mrazek & Craig Smith

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Robbed? No. But it was still an asinine trade because Mrazek is awful and there was no need to spend assets for crap in return.

Deal Veleno, by all means. But if nothing else, deal him for a useful rental instead of handcuffing yourself to a lousy goaltender next year.

It was almost like Yzerman had seller's remorse from ditching Husso, so he rushed out and found the next worst option.

Yep. We didn’t get any better and instead of a forward that you can bury and play 8 minutes a night at mid 2s, you get a goalie who is going to play badly for 30 games, well for 5 at 4m

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

did Yzerman get robbed? It’s just a nothing trade, for either team quite frankly

That’s kinda where I’m at with it. People really thought the Wings were going to make some big splash at the deadline?

Generally you have to give up good players to get good players when you’re not a playoff threat. The Wings aren’t exactly neck deep in good players.

 

[izlez]

Yep. We didn’t get any better and instead of a forward that you can bury and play 8 minutes a night at mid 2s, you get a goalie who is going to play badly for 30 games, well for 5 at 4m

Have you seen Joe Veleno play hockey? Are you able to go look at his stats for the last 2 months while the rest of the team has turned the season around? You know he was just a healthy scratch AFTER unloading another 4th liner?

Not all 4th liners are equal. We absolutely upgraded.

 

[SirloinUB]

Yep. We didn’t get any better and instead of a forward that you can bury and play 8 minutes a night at mid 2s, you get a goalie who is going to play badly for 30 games, well for 5 at 4m

We didn’t pick up a vezina winner but Mrazek has played 33 games this year and put up a .909 (or better) save % 16 times this year.

Over the last 1.5 years half of his games have been “quality starts” while playing on a worse team than we have.

Even this year, half of his games have been quality starts (16 of 33) which is inline with Talbot who has had a solid year.

Suggesting Mrazek will give us 30 bad games isn’t grounded in reality unless you think he is going to start 65-70 games for this team

 

[jkutswings]

We didn’t pick up a vezina winner but Mrazek has played 33 games this year and put up a .909 (or better) save % 16 times this year.

Over the last 1.5 years half of his games have been “quality starts” while playing on a worse team than we have.

Even this year, half of his games have been quality starts (16 of 33) which is inline with Talbot who has had a solid year.

Suggesting Mrazek will give us 30 bad games isn’t grounded in reality unless you think he is going to start 65-70 games for this team

Except that the entire career of Mrazek has shown that the only thing he's consistent at is inconsistency. Whatever he did with Chicago will have no bearing on what he will do with Detroit - he is who he is: a guy who overcommits and relies too much on athleticism at the expense of positioning. So sometimes he will make a spectacular save, and sometimes he will look foolish.

I would be STUNNED if over the course of the entire 2025-26 season, he has even average NHL numbers. He's just not good.

 

[SirloinUB]

Except that the entire career of Mrazek has shown that the only thing he's consistent at is inconsistency. Whatever he did with Chicago will have no bearing on what he will do with Detroit - he is who he is: a guy who overcommits and relies too much on athleticism at the expense of positioning. So sometimes he will make a spectacular save, and sometimes he will look foolish.

I would be STUNNED if over the course of the entire 2025-26 season, he has even average NHL numbers. He's just not good.

Did I not point out his inconsistency (half his games being good, half being not good)?

Despite that inconsistency he is literally average this year and was above average last year.

You guys are living in a hyperbolic state right now making things out to be worse than they are.

 

[stillwater]

He is literally average this year and was above average last year.

You guys are living in a hyperbolic state right now making things out to be worse than they are.

If you were going to get to pick a goalie to play half the games for the Red Wings in 2025-26, how far down the list would Mrazek have been?

Right ... somewhere close to the bottom. And, you have to pay him 4.5M.

Hey, maybe he'll be great, but that would certainly be a surprise. But, this trade is not worth defending.

 

[jkutswings]

Despite that inconsistency he is literally average this year and was above average last year.

You guys are living in a hyperbolic state right now making things out to be worse than they are.

That is objectively not true.

I just pulled the stats. For the 69 goaltenders that have played at least 10 games this season:

Save Percentage
League Average: 0.899
Lyon ranks 34/69 with 0.900
Talbot ranks 36/69 with 0.899
Mrazek ranks 54/69 with 0.890

GAA
League Average: 2.80
Lyon ranks 30/69 with 2.77
Talbot ranks 49/69 with 2.99
Mrazek ranks 63/69 with 3.46

One could argue that Detroit has had average goaltending this year. But Mrazek has been significantly below average.

 

[SirloinUB]

That is objectively not true.

I just pulled the stats. For the 69 goaltenders that have played at least 10 games this season:

Save Percentage
League Average: 0.899
Lyon ranks 34/69 with 0.900
Talbot ranks 36/69 with 0.899
Mrazek ranks 54/69 with 0.890

GAA
League Average: 2.80
Lyon ranks 30/69 with 2.77
Talbot ranks 49/69 with 2.99
Mrazek ranks 63/69 with 3.46

One could argue that Detroit has had average goaltending this year. But Mrazek has been significantly below average.

Mrazek is .009 below league average. That’s statistically insignificant variance from league average. What’s the standard deviation on that? .05?

He’s had 33 starts 16 of them have been good to great with a .909 sv%.


Also, you’re ignoring last season where he was as far above average as you’re trying to hold against him for being below this year.

Thats 2 season worth of data that puts him at league average. Obviously he’s not a star but again, you’re making it out to be worse than it is

I also believe the organization is reasonable in betting that getting that result in the UFA would cost more, especially on term. Conservative? Sure, but not unreasonable. This ensures we can avoid a long term log jam in the crease with Cossa and Augustine on the way.

And to be clear, I’m not arguing this is something brilliant.

It’s a fine, low risk option in line with the organization’s philosophy to draft and develop while giving the bottom 6 a slight bump.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Mrazek is .009 below league average. That’s statistically insignificant variance from league average. What’s the standard deviation on that? .05?

He’s had 33 starts 16 of them have been good to great with a .909 sv%.


Also, you’re ignoring last season where he was as far above average as you’re trying to hold against him for being below this year.

Thats 2 season worth of data that puts him at league average. Obviously he’s not a star but again, you’re making it out to be worse than it is

And he's on the second worst team in the NHL i think that affects his GAA.

 

[Holden Caufield]

You can throw all the nitpicking about Mrazek stats out the window as far as I’m concerned. I don’t need to see them.

Anybody who watches Mrazek can see he is a lousy goalie and always has been.

He is positionally unsound, overcommits all the time and does not control his angles. Yes he is a great athlete with top end reflexes that can sometimes make up for his complete lack of structure. But overall a goalie with no structure will never be consistent in this league.

Also last I checked athleticism and reflexes decline with age…

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Did I not point out his inconsistency (half his games being good, half being not good)?

Despite that inconsistency he is literally average this year and was above average last year.

You guys are living in a hyperbolic state right now making things out to be worse than they are.

Yeah. An inconsistent goalie is a worthless goalie. Because goalies themselves have some variability in their game. When you’re signing on for a guy who is noted for it… I worry

Mrazek is .009 below league average. That’s statistically insignificant variance from league average. What’s the standard deviation on that? .05?

He’s had 33 starts 16 of them have been good to great with a .909 sv%.


Also, you’re ignoring last season where he was as far above average as you’re trying to hold against him for being below this year.

Thats 2 season worth of data that puts him at league average. Obviously he’s not a star but again, you’re making it out to be worse than it is

I also believe the organization is reasonable in betting that getting that result in the UFA would cost more, especially on term. Conservative? Sure, but not unreasonable. This ensures we can avoid a long term log jam in the crease with Cossa and Augustine on the way.

And to be clear, I’m not arguing this is something brilliant.

It’s a fine, low risk option in line with the organization’s philosophy to draft and develop while giving the bottom 6 a slight bump.

Good to great. Eh? Good to great at .909

I seem to remember a goalie around these parts in the late 2010s who settled at around .909-.912 for his career after four great years to start it (with the still dynamite post Cup roster, to be fair)

Jimmy Howard Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Jimmy Howard. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Jimmy Howard was treated like a god damn cancer for daring to make 5.3M to play at a .910 level.

.909 is not a good sv% in the current era of hockey that you should be happy with. And that’s the upper end of what Mrazek is doing.

 

[lilidk]

Yzerman was like, let me do something and he did it. He just didn't like Veleno , just like Walman and get rid of him.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Mrazek is .009 below league average. That’s statistically insignificant variance from league average. What’s the standard deviation on that? .05?

He’s had 33 starts 16 of them have been good to great with a .909 sv%.


Also, you’re ignoring last season where he was as far above average as you’re trying to hold against him for being below this year.

Thats 2 season worth of data that puts him at league average. Obviously he’s not a star but again, you’re making it out to be worse than it is

I also believe the organization is reasonable in betting that getting that result in the UFA would cost more, especially on term. Conservative? Sure, but not unreasonable. This ensures we can avoid a long term log jam in the crease with Cossa and Augustine on the way.

And to be clear, I’m not arguing this is something brilliant.

It’s a fine, low risk option in line with the organization’s philosophy to draft and develop while giving the bottom 6 a slight bump.

Further…. They should have some sense of urgency to be good and make the playoffs. The reason I hate this move is that it 100% is a kick the can down the road so we aren’t hurt in a couple years when you really should be pulling out of the rebuild.

Like I always hate the putting of arbitrary timelines for winning a title as a pressure on a GM… but my god, they haven’t made the playoffs in a league where half the teams make the playoffs his whole time here.

I understood that in 19-20, 20-21, and even 21-22 when you had no choice but to ride out the awful deals to Nielsen, Abby and others… But that hasn’t been a concern in years. You cleaned up a salary cap mess but refuse to use the cap which is now an asset for you

 

[dalem177]

I like Veleno but I cannot argue that he's been a key piece the last couple of seasons.

I don't know "Jack about Poop" about Craig Smith.

Husso is simply not NHL caliber. Injuries alone tell me that. Plus the team never played well in front of him. That's a "him" problem, not a "them" problem.

Mrazek, at least, is an NHL caliber goalie.

That's all I know, except that y'all guys are HARD to have fun with this season. Brrrrrr!

 

[SirloinUB]

Further…. They should have some sense of urgency to be good and make the playoffs. The reason I hate this move is that it 100% is a kick the can down the road so we aren’t hurt in a couple years when you really should be pulling out of the rebuild.

Like I always hate the putting of arbitrary timelines for winning a title as a pressure on a GM… but my god, they haven’t made the playoffs in a league where half the teams make the playoffs his whole time here.

I understood that in 19-20, 20-21, and even 21-22 when you had no choice but to ride out the awful deals to Nielsen, Abby and others… But that hasn’t been a concern in years. You cleaned up a salary cap mess but refuse to use the cap which is now an asset for you

This is all fair. The organization is clearly committed to drafting and developing right now. You’re allowed to disagree with it.

I also appreciate that inconsistent goaltending is a problem but look at the UFA market, there isn’t really any better options, and if one is better, you’ll be giving up as much or more salary with term.

With two good goalie prospects on their way maintaining flexibility in the crease has value. You’re right, there is an element of kicking the can down the road. Between Cossa/Augustine they believe there is a meaningful long term solution within the organization.

Tbh, one of the more interesting elements of this is what it says about Lyon. For better or worse they seemingly are more interested in one year of mrazek than resigning Lyon.

Again, I’m not trying to celebrate this move. All I’m saying is I don’t think it’s as bad as it’s being made out to be. Especially within the context of this organization’s commitment to building via drafting and development.

 

[stillwater]

Yzerman was like, let me do something and he did it. He just didn't like Veleno , just like Walman and get rid of him.

I mean, that's a really bad comparison to each player's situation with the Red Wings. Like, it's not even close.

 

[odin1981]

Yzerman was like, let me do something and he did it. He just didn't like Veleno , just like Walman and get rid of him.

One year of a meh deal beats 2-3 years of a bad deal with a UFA.

 

[ricky0034]

what I find interesting about this trade is Mrazek is under contract for next year

considering Talbot is also it really raises the question of if this means the Wings still view Cossa as being multiple years away from the NHL

 

[JediOrderPizza]

what I find interesting about this trade is Mrazek is under contract for next year

considering Talbot is also it really raises the question of if this means the Wings still view Cossa as being multiple years away from the NHL

Insurance, he said it wouldn't stop Cossa if he had a strong finish, had a great camp and forced himself on the team. You can just bury someone like we did Husso or move them.

 

[redwingsfannn9191]

Insurance, he said it wouldn't stop Cossa if he had a strong finish, had a great camp and forced himself on the team. You can just bury someone like we did Husso or move them.

Cossa will 100% start in g.r I've heard that yzerman tale too many times to think otherwise

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Cossa will 100% start in g.r I've heard that yzerman tale too many times to think otherwise

Yes because this team is afraid to play rookies. Sure.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

That is objectively not true.

I just pulled the stats. For the 69 goaltenders that have played at least 10 games this season:

Save Percentage
League Average: 0.899
Lyon ranks 34/69 with 0.900
Talbot ranks 36/69 with 0.899
Mrazek ranks 54/69 with 0.890

GAA
League Average: 2.80
Lyon ranks 30/69 with 2.77
Talbot ranks 49/69 with 2.99
Mrazek ranks 63/69 with 3.46

One could argue that Detroit has had average goaltending this year. But Mrazek has been significantly below average.

I’m no Mrazek fan but the sample should be goalies who’ve started at least 20 games if not 30.

And the dude plays on a rebuilding/tanking team.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yeah. An inconsistent goalie is a worthless goalie. Because goalies themselves have some variability in their game. When you’re signing on for a guy who is noted for it… I worry


Good to great. Eh? Good to great at .909

I seem to remember a goalie around these parts in the late 2010s who settled at around .909-.912 for his career after four great years to start it (with the still dynamite post Cup roster, to be fair)

Jimmy Howard Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Jimmy Howard. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Jimmy Howard was treated like a god damn cancer for daring to make 5.3M to play at a .910 level.

.909 is not a good sv% in the current era of hockey that you should be happy with. And that’s the upper end of what Mrazek is doing.m

Aren’t save percentages down league wide compare to the Jimmy Howard era?

(Though I do think he gets too much grief because of how his career ended.)

 

[14ari13]

So, since Stevie knows more than we do, we can’t question or criticize his moves? Are we supposed to just nod our heads eagerly with every move or statement? Sounds like a fun board…

Tell me, how does trading a 25 year old center for a 35 year old 4th liner who will be a UFA and a 33 year old goalie who is one of the worst in the league and costs more next season than both our current goalies, build for the long term?

What did Yzerman do?
He traded a young center for an aging and useless center when we already have 2, namely Copp and Compher and he got an aging, expensive and bad goalie when we already have 2, though those 2 are cheap and have outperformed their contracts. In addition, Larkin is soon 30.
And he traded a 1st pair defenceman for nothing, or he actually paid to trade him, and now the sharks flipped him for 1st.
Yzerman also waived Fisher and the team that we are fighting for the playoff spot that just beat us twice in back to back games picked him up.

And to make it even worse, he places the team now in the worst possible position. We are not making playoffs and we are not picking top 5 or top 10.