Confirmed with Link: Veleno signs

[heyfolks]

When was this so called hot streak?

Hot, for a bottom line center, is relative. 41.6% of seasonal goal production was in October.

Joe Veleno 2023-24 Stats per Game - NHL - ESPN

The 2023-24 NHL season stats per game for Joe Veleno of the Detroit Red Wings on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.

www.espn.com

I know it's late July, but I don't see the reason to debate JV. I do not hate the guy, I just think $2.2M is too high a price tag for what he brings to the team (I posted the center pay in the League, but that does not appear to be your focus). The Wings are betting on the development line for him. I do not see it, but I am no Kris Draper. Could be he develops into that hard to play against bottom line center and sticks around for a 15 year career as a stalwart shut down guy.

 

[lilidk]

2.2 is too high compared to Fischer and Motte and low compared to Copp . They all bottom 6

 

[Henkka]

2.2 is too high compared to Fischer and Motte and low compared to Copp . They all bottom 6

Yeah, but you don't compare RFA-deals to UFA-deals.

Veleno just got too much versus RFA age-comparables.

I hope he could develop some special skills. Go towards a PK guy, if the skill isn't enough to have an offensive role.

55% at faceoffs and effective 1st PK specialist would be great.

But currently he is just meh at everything.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Does anyone else think Veleno got signed for that specific price so Steve could open that buyout window for either Holl, Husso, or Copp?

 

[lilidk]

Does anyone else think Veleno got signed for that specific price so Steve could open that buyout window for either Holl, Husso, or Copp?

I hope no buyout. Next summer Yzerman needs to look at them and think twice before he overpay bottom line player

 

[Henkka]

Does anyone else think Veleno got signed for that specific price so Steve could open that buyout window for either Holl, Husso, or Copp?

That doesn't really affect on the buyout possibility, which price Veleno was signed.

It was just him filing to arbitration, which will make new buyout window possible for a 4M+ contract (Holl is not an option).

 

[PelagicJoe]

That doesn't really affect on the buyout possibility, which price Veleno was signed.

It was just him filing to arbitration, which will make new buyout window possible for a 4M+ contract (Holl is not an option).

Thank you. I'm not that well versed in how some of the cap stuff works.

 

[rwings01]

I live in Montreal and watched JV quite a bit in the Q. He’s not that good and is way overpaid for what he brings. He has very low hockey IQ and doesn’t have the tools or talent to be more that what he is now. I would have rather we give the extra 2M to MO & RAZOR. Valeno is a big baby and whines when things don’t go his way. He should be traded or shouldn’t have been qualified IMHO.

Should never have gotten exemption status either in Junior. He’s a dirty POS when he’s not scoring, he was that way in minor hockey and in the Q. Horrible draft by Holland in the first round to boot.

 

[lilidk]

I live in Montreal and watched JV quite a bit in the Q. He’s not that good and is way overpaid for what he brings. He has very low hockey IQ and doesn’t have the tools or talent to be more that what he is now. I would have rather we give the extra 2M to MO & RAZOR. Valeno is a big baby and whines when things don’t go his way. He should be traded or shouldn’t have been qualified IMHO.

Should never have gotten exemption status either in Junior. He’s a dirty POS when he’s not scoring, he was that way in minor hockey and in the Q. Horrible draft by Holland in the first round to boot.

It's not horrible, he is still NHL player, was talking in the end of very weak first round

 

[heyfolks]

2.2 is too high compared to Fischer and Motte and low compared to Copp . They all bottom 6

I like what you did there.

 

[pz29]

I don´t quite understand the attention this slight (in my opinion) overpayment to Veleno has drawn. Really, would saving 400-500 K allow the club to do something dramatic, sign a superstar, for example? Likely not. In the end, I think Veleno is not all that useless, as some here portray him, and with the right kind of assignment can contribute.

 

[Henkka]

I don´t quite understand the attention this slight (in my opinion) overpayment to Veleno has drawn. Really, would saving 400-500 K allow the club to do something dramatic, sign a superstar, for example? Likely not. In the end, I think Veleno is not all that useless, as some here portray him, and with the right kind of assignment can contribute.

That's an extra 500k which will could affect on next season's cap, after Seider/Raymond/Berggren are signed. AND, Especially if Yzerman trades for a Top4 defenceman, the majority of Kane bonuses will slide there.

And when it was 500k more, also that 2nd year is 500k too much at next season cap. So 500k too much for 2 years, becomes a 1M for next season cap after the slide. All these will cumulate.

What I really hope, could be Veleno becoming a trade bait on that defenceman trade, so we don't have to worry about this later.

If that Trouba-case will happen later on, maybe NYR could be interested re-uniting Veleno and Lafreniere. The best hockey I've ever seen from Veleno, was when they played together for Canada at U20 WJC.

 

[pz29]

That's an extra 500k which will could affect on next season's cap, after Seider/Raymond/Berggren are signed. AND, Especially if Yzerman trades for a Top4 defenceman, the majority of Kane bonuses will slide there.

And when it was 500k more, also that 2nd year is 500k too much at next season cap. So 500k too much for 2 years, becomes a 1M for next season cap after the slide. All these will cumulate.

What I really hope, could be Veleno becoming a trade bait on that defenceman trade, so we don't have to worry about this later.

If that Trouba-case will happen later on, maybe NYR could be interested re-uniting Veleno and Lafreniere. The best hockey I've ever seen from Veleno, was when they played together for Canada at U20 WJC.

I guess, though it still seems to me that the 500K will not make it or break it. Could be wrong, though.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I don´t quite understand the attention this slight (in my opinion) overpayment to Veleno has drawn. Really, would saving 400-500 K allow the club to do something dramatic, sign a superstar, for example? Likely not. In the end, I think Veleno is not all that useless, as some here portray him, and with the right kind of assignment can contribute.

Overpaying by $500k on any given contract doesn't matter. The problem is that we seem to overpay everybody (besides scoring wingers) and thus each instance contributes to a larger issue. I'd have given Veleno 1.5 tops and if he didn't take it, we could go to arbitration. You want to establish a team culture of guys making less everywhere that you can.

 

[lilidk]

Overpaying by $500k on any given contract doesn't matter. The problem is that we seem to overpay everybody (besides scoring wingers) and thus each instance contributes to a larger issue. I'd have given Veleno 1.5 tops and if he didn't take it, we could go to arbitration. You want to establish a team culture of guys making less everywhere that you can.

Veleno was underpaid last season , also Fischer

 

[13to40]

That's an extra 500k which will could affect on next season's cap, after Seider/Raymond/Berggren are signed. AND, Especially if Yzerman trades for a Top4 defenceman, the majority of Kane bonuses will slide there.

And when it was 500k more, also that 2nd year is 500k too much at next season cap. So 500k too much for 2 years, becomes a 1M for next season cap after the slide. All these will cumulate.

What I really hope, could be Veleno becoming a trade bait on that defenceman trade, so we don't have to worry about this later.

If that Trouba-case will happen later on, maybe NYR could be interested re-uniting Veleno and Lafreniere. The best hockey I've ever seen from Veleno, was when they played together for Canada at U20 WJC.

Or maybe he scores 15-20G this year and it becomes an amazing signing.

He was on pace for it last season before he went on that slide where he disappeared. Which a large reason behind it was conflict that we will never hear about in the dressing room (according to Sprong which I’ll say now since he’s no longer part of the team).

Apparently even before Larkin went down with the injury the locker room became “an absolute shit show”.

None the less I don’t think an extra “500k” should be hindering this team financially. If 500k is making that big of a difference, then that means we have much worse contracts to be worrying about.

This is a typical (boring) mid summer debate since there is not much else to discuss. Otherwise I don’t think we would have 6 pages going back and forth on how some people think it’s a horrid contract vs an OK signing.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Number 5 overall pick in 2021 Kent Johnson signed for 3 years 1.8 mil aav.

 

[Bench]

All the debate over minor contracts is a significant element of why I miss pre-cap hockey.

 

[dalem177]

Apparently even before Larkin went down with the injury the locker room became “an absolute shit show”.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Overpay for such a mid player

 

[HisNoodliness]

All the debate over minor contracts is a significant element of why I miss pre-cap hockey.

Honestly, I miss rooting for the players to get a big deal. Who would I rather have some extra money next year, Veleno or Chris Illitch? Clearly, Veleno. Instead, I'm annoyed that he got just a bit too much in my opinion.

It's even more striking when thinking about the big names. I'd love for us to give Seider entirely too much money. "Hey kid, here's $100 mil to play here for 8 years, remember who made you a rich man when it comes time for your next contract." In a cap world, I'm hoping that we squeeze him as much as we can without offending him. I'm hoping to use his contract as an example to argue down the contracts of other high end players on the team- a tool in establishing the "team friendly contract" culture. It makes me question my loyalties/values.

 

[Henkka]

All the debate over minor contracts is a significant element of why I miss pre-cap hockey.

Dunno.

I remember there was some debate against Boyd Devereaux when he was overpaid.

Or Hasek and Cujo both getting 8M at same time.

 

[Bench]

Dunno.

I remember there was some debate against Boyd Devereaux when he was overpaid.

Or Hasek and Cujo both getting 8M at same time.

Oh no, the CEO bonus took a hit that year.

Now when a player is overpaid we resent that player and it changes how we view them. The cap era turns us against guys grinding the best they can like Abby and Copp so that the billionaires can be protected from themselves.

I get functionality how the cap helps smaller market teams and stabilize, but there's significant trade offs for that. Pros and cons.

The fact we're even remotely thinking about this Veleno deal is a con to me, as a fan of the sport.

 

[Henkka]

Still there was a team budget, and players did leave money on the table getting Brett Hull.

So what has changed?

Yzerman was the FIRST NHL example to leave money on the table.

And we got Hull and 2002 Stanley Cup.

 

[norrisnick]

Still there was a team budget, and players did leave money on the table getting Brett Hull.

So what has changed?

Yzerman was the FIRST NHL example to leave money on the table.

And we got Hull and 2002 Stanley Cup.

They didn't. Money was deferred. None was left on the table.