Post-Game Talk: #VegasStronger - Golden Knights 3, Jets 2 (OT)

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Happy to get a point, not our best effort but we weren't horrible either. Call on their 2nd goal as horrendous.

Laine has regressed this season. He has become what other teams fans were calling him last year, a one dimensional power play specialist. I'm surprised to see how many people are defending him. He is terrible at getting pucks out of the end, has created very little of his own offense this year, is slow, and is still weak on the puck. Last year I defended him saying he was a good playmaker and made things happen on the ice, this year I've seen less and less of that. Luckily, what he is good at; scoring goals, is the most important part of hockey so he is still a very valuable player, but it has been a concerning season for him.

 

[howkie]

Just watched some part of the game, must say Copp-Armia-Connor sounds like an intressting line on papper, seems like they all 3 would bring something.

 

[grieves]

A teenager is leading this team in goals last 2 years.
3rd in points.

He even have more goals than matthew perrault 4 years here.

We got 3 out of 4 points against the 2 best team in the league.
Without our 1c and arguably 1D

All other teams will play wheelers line hard.
It will not happen with our 4th line.

The difference now before is
Our 4th line can actually score goals unlike gst etc.

I love my Armia, Tanev copp hendricks etc...

But other teams dont draw up their game plan to stop them.
Its up to them to score goals here and there.

There is a reason why wheeler laine and scheifele are your 3 best point producers. If you dont put team out when the games is on the line. Then something is wrong there.

Ofcourse they will not go there way all the time.
Otherwise Jets will never lose... lol

Come on
Crapping on Laine trying to nitpick his game, im worried about these people.
They will be doing this for a loooooongggggg time. He'll be a Jets for at least 8 more years...
So you are warn embrace his goal scoring prowess or get frustrated.


GO jEts go

It's pretty much comedy at this point . I don't mind a bit of levity.

Either you think Laine is playing the best hockey of his career right now or you don't. Bad games happen to 32 year old veterans too, Laine is not exempt.

 

[ulf]

• No Schiefele no Kulikov no Trouba.....no show Wheeler too slow Laine error prone PMo and still we get a point . What a team

 

[Board Bard]

That goal was all on Wheeler. He knows it, I know it, and I know that YOU know it.

I'd say that Wheeler pulled the trigger on that suicide but Laine handed him the gun.

 

[FinJetster]

Which one of Wheeler (1st) and Laine (4th) is he passing on the depth chart?

As for skillsets, Armia is in a really tough spot in Winnipeg. Neither Laine nor Ehlers play a game that is suited to a bottom six role in the slightest, which makes demoting either one practically impossible. As a winger, Wheeler is far superior to Armia (and every other winger, to be exact), hence why he won't be the one seeing his ice time cut in favour of 40. This means that Armia has little chance of climbing up the rankings without one of the aforementioned wingers going down with an injury.

I was just trying to answer two claims that were made on this topic: 1) Joel Armia is border-line 3rd liner 2) Armia probably would not make 50 points a season even with "better" linemates and added TOI.

But to comment your point (which wasn't actually an answer to mine, at all) I think Laine is actually probably going to play LW. But it also might be that Ehlers is gonna play RW, so your point stays. Only changing Laine with Ehlers. Anyways, my point is Joel is in my opinion at least knocking at top 6. Was it after Blake retires or someone gets an injury or starts to suck badly, but eventually.

 

[Maukkis]

Come on. Wheeler f***ed up on the 1-1 goal. However, he does not end up in that position, if Buff does not turn the puck over moments before at the Knights' blue line. But hey - maybe he would have managed to keep the puck, if any other Jet supported his attempt to carry the puck in. But yeah, probably Buff's fault. Or was it about Connor/Roslovic (one of them, can't remember which), who was unable to exit the Jets' zone under pressure? Then again, if Laine moved the puck or his feet before that, we would not talk about this situation at all.

The point is - how about we stop trying to single out Wheeler, when the entire f***ing unit made several mistakes on that play?

 

[csk]

Come on. Wheeler ****ed up on the 1-1 goal. However, he does not end up in that position, if Buff does not turn the puck over moments before at the Knights' blue line. But hey - maybe he would have managed to keep the puck, if any other Jet supported his attempt to carry the puck in. But yeah, probably Buff's fault. Or was it about Connor/Roslovic (one of them, can't remember which), who was unable to exit the Jets' zone under pressure? Then again, if Laine moved the puck or his feet before that, we would not talk about this situation at all.

The point is - how about we stop trying to single out Wheeler, when the entire ****ing unit made several mistakes on that play?

That's usually how it happens. I've never understood the need to find someone to blame for each goal. It's a team sport

 

[TannedBum]

So, Mo's explanation for demoting Armia was "His first two shifts weren't so great".

Was there something wrong in his first shift ? No.

Yes, the second shift wasn't so great, but did something seriously bad happen during that shift ? No.

I guess that's all it takes for some players. The special treatment. And why it's impossible to reward these guys when they're doing great ?

 

[puck stoppa]

So, Mo's explanation for demoting Armia was "His first two shifts weren't so great".

Was there something wrong in his first shift ? No.

Yes, the second shift wasn't so great, but did something seriously bad happen during that shift ? No.

I guess that's all it takes for some players. The special treatment. And why it's impossible to reward these guys they're doing great ?

Too bad. I think he missed one assignment on a back check when a dman switched off I think and he's sent down.
As for game we were flat, but still found a way to get a point!

 

[Maukkis]

That's usually how it happens. I've never understood the need to find someone to blame for each goal. It's a team sport

I reckon it is about one breakdown masking several others. For the fans, it is easier to admit that one guy did it bad than to acknowledge multiple problems. Either that, or it's about bias.

 

[kanadalainen]

Carried the play, got some bad breaks, got a point. Hardly the Götterdämmerung it's being made out to be.

Agreed. After 8 hours of sleep, and a 200% reduction in systolic blood pressure. Good words, full props to you.



(Still pissed about the two hander by Neal on Helle).

 

[scelaton]

On general level I agree of this, though I think you overestimate the perceived gap between top and bottom six skill level. But yes, passing Laine and Wheeler is impossible for anyone on the team.
The "trouble" with Armia is that he's just too good at the bottom six role. You may lol at this but considering TOI and where he's played, Armia is one of our to scorers. There are now 257 players with more than 20 points and Armia is last on this list in TOI. That's cherry picking stats, but still..
It's not the question of whether he's top six material, cause I think he is, but in the bigger picture putting Armia (and let's not forget Copp) in top lines gives less gain in performance than e.g. Connor or Roslo, who just a few weeks ago didn't even make the team. So it's not always who's the best for the job, but what benefits the team most.
Well at least some of the talent is trickling down to bottom lines so he gets to work with those top liners anyhows.
I'm very happy with our roster even with Sceif and Lowry out.

Edit: That's TOI/GP, not total TOI

Armia's 5x5 game is much more complete than Laine's at this point and he would thrive as a top-6 RW. The problem is that Laine is not good enough defensively to play in his place on our third line the way it is currently constituted.
There is really no perfect place on our team for Laine to develop 5x5 without showing his immaturity (as a player), aside from the forth line.

OK, stand down, I am not suggesting that!

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Happy to get a point, not our best effort but we weren't horrible either. Call on their 2nd goal as horrendous.

Laine has regressed this season. He has become what other teams fans were calling him last year, a one dimensional power play specialist. I'm surprised to see how many people are defending him. He is terrible at getting pucks out of the end, has created very little of his own offense this year, is slow, and is still weak on the puck. Last year I defended him saying he was a good playmaker and made things happen on the ice, this year I've seen less and less of that. Luckily, what he is good at; scoring goals, is the most important part of hockey so he is still a very valuable player, but it has been a concerning season for him.

I agree with you.

I'm not a fancy stat guy but I'll bet that opposing coaches tell guys to dump it in towards the LHD knowing that he'll feed it up to Laine and there's a 50/50 chance for a turnover. He's hopeless trying to get it out of the zone.

The plus on Laine is that he's only 19, leads his team in goals again, and has all the time in the world to develop his overall game. All is not lost on him, that's for sure.

 

[grieves]

Come on. Wheeler ****ed up on the 1-1 goal. However, he does not end up in that position, if Buff does not turn the puck over moments before at the Knights' blue line. But hey - maybe he would have managed to keep the puck, if any other Jet supported his attempt to carry the puck in. But yeah, probably Buff's fault. Or was it about Connor/Roslovic (one of them, can't remember which), who was unable to exit the Jets' zone under pressure? Then again, if Laine moved the puck or his feet before that, we would not talk about this situation at all.

The point is - how about we stop trying to single out Wheeler, when the entire ****ing unit made several mistakes on that play?

I agree with this, the player giving the turnover has no control whether or not the opponent succeeds or not. That said, there are different times and places that can make a turnover worse or better.

You should include the poster you are replying to in your post btw, you are making it seem that singling out Wheeler is some kind of common occurrence. There is one player being singled out every game, but that player is not Wheeler.

 

[ps241]

So, Mo's explanation for demoting Armia was "His first two shifts weren't so great".

Was there something wrong in his first shift ? No.

Yes, the second shift wasn't so great, but did something seriously bad happen during that shift ? No.

I guess that's all it takes for some players. The special treatment. And why it's impossible to reward these guys they're doing great ?

The interesting part though is he still got lots of minutes and played really well with Connor and Henricks so I am not sure there is a huge difference between 3rd line and 4th line given our depth right now. I heard what PMo said that he wanted a bit more speed on the 3rd line for the defensive match up and I guess that is what it is Tanev has played pretty well on that unit too but what it did do was create a scoring bottom six line and a checking bottom six line last night. Its not entirely different that the Roslovic Connor situation and how well Kyle is managing that adversity. I thought Connor and Armia looked really good together.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Happy to get a point, not our best effort but we weren't horrible either. Call on their 2nd goal as horrendous.

Laine has regressed this season. He has become what other teams fans were calling him last year, a one dimensional power play specialist. I'm surprised to see how many people are defending him. He is terrible at getting pucks out of the end, has created very little of his own offense this year, is slow, and is still weak on the puck. Last year I defended him saying he was a good playmaker and made things happen on the ice, this year I've seen less and less of that. Luckily, what he is good at; scoring goals, is the most important part of hockey so he is still a very valuable player, but it has been a concerning season for him.

He's 19! There is almost nothing "concerning" about a 19 year old who is leading his NHL team in goals who sometimes has a few issues in his game. If he's still having similar issues in 2 or 3 years...maybe some real concern. For now, it's growing pains and he's well ahead of the curve as far as those go.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Remember when there was actually a “debate” about who was the better player - Laine or Austin Matthews?

Remember where there was a debate and angst over Scheifele and other people in his draft?

Give them both a couple of years to develop.

 

[DowntownBooster]

I'm a Buff fan but I do think they need to play him less in OT simply because it's a 3 on 3 and he just isn't fast enough in that situation. The Jets record in OT this season is very poor. If they had won even half of those OT games they would be in a much better position in the standings instead of being neck and neck with Nashville. I wish Maurice would come up with a plan that doesn't include so much ice time for Buff or even Wheeler in OT. Maybe try using more of the younger players as their legs wouldn't be as tired since they get less ice time during the game. Ehlers should always be a consideration for OT since he is not only fast but can carry the puck from one end to the other even when there are 5 players on the ice so 3 on 3 should be no problem for him.

 

[TannedBum]

However something that I've noticed is that Joel is like 95% of the time the first one who goes in for a change from his line. Not sure that why he does that but that definetly eats his ice time.

That's probably because he listens and does exactly as the coach wants. Short shifts and a lot of energy. Imagine if all the players would do that...

 

[Howard Chuck]

I was thinking exactly this. Helle is more concerned with playing goal than diving and embellishing, and this is what he gets from it.

Watch the replay and you can see his head snap back, but he stays right in the play. If he would have flopped over and writhed in pain like most goaltenders do these days, Neal would have gotten a penalty and we would have been winning the game.

 

[Jets 31]

I agree with this, the player giving the turnover has no control whether or not the opponent succeeds or not. That said, there are different times and places that can make a turnover worse or better.

You should include the poster you are replying to in your post btw, you are making it seem that singling out Wheeler is some kind of common occurrence. There is one player being singled out every game, but that player is not Wheeler.

That would be Buff , whether he deserves it or not . I thought Buff had a good game but that's just me . I will be critical of any Jet if they deserve it but it just seems no matter what Buff does it's not good enough .

 

[Howard Chuck]

If Laine doesn't play amateur hour on his flubbed breakout, the puck's not in a position for Wheeler to make his stupid gaffe. They're both to blame for that putrid series.

Laine, Buff and Wheeler all had some responsibility for that goal. The whole sequence was awful.

 

[grieves]

That would be Buff , whether he deserves it or not . I thought Buff had a good game but that's just me . I will be critical of any Jet if they deserve it but it just seems no matter what Buff does it's not good enough .

I though he had a good game too (apart from OT). I only mentioned the PP because I don't understand why they are not doing anything about that. Even Dellow agrees that we should not be shooting from up there, and it is doubly bad because the other option is a Laine one-timer. They are pretty tasty one-timers.

The Buff-Laine sandwich was pretty funny btw.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Good to come back to get a point last night. A shame that Mo keeps going back to the losing formula in 3v3.

Vegas is a smothering team defensively that takes advantage of your mistakes offensively. By the way, that's a good formula for success for the playoffs. Even while we were trying to open the game up to get the tying goal, they effectively closed the game down in the third with the one goal lead. What were the shots, like 5 a piece or something? A great snipe by KC to get us the point.

The reason that I am pissed about Buf on the 3v3, and the fact that PMo keeps using him is the following: He stays out too long. He makes selfish and irresponsible choices to stay out when he shouldn't. Even when there is a chance where a team leader / veteran player knows that he should change em up, he stays out. That is how you lose in 3v3. You get tired bodies out there while the other team gets fresh legs out there. How many times do we have to see it before the coach does what the coach is supposed to do and either get Buf to be responsible with his 3v3 ice time, or stop playing him there. Buf was so gassed on that game winning play he couldn't even move his stick out to tip/block the shot. He literally just stood there. He started to move his stick but it was like in slow motion. It was pathetic. And there were opportunities for Buf to change out and he just chose to stay on the ice. After the initial puck drop on the 3v3, he had been out for about a minute and there was a perfect chance for him to change as he was out of the play and the puck was up ice. He stayed on and ended up being out for an almost 2 minute shift to start the OT. Simple example of selfish, irresponsible decision that bites us over and over again in OT.

But when the player does it over and over and over and it keeps costing us points, AND, the coach keeps putting that player out in that same situation to let him fail again, then it's on the coach. That's where we are now - Buf's play 3v3 is on Maurice. Why? Because by now you know what you get, so you are choosing to get that as the coach when you put him out there in OT.

I am not even going to ask the question as to why the other two guys who were really bad last night (Wheels and Laine) were out there when we have so much other talent on that bench. Dude the guys struggled, give someone who is on fire the chance in OT. That's another topic for discussion.

Good game by two really good teams. Both team's apparent struggles to do simple things at times were really due to the other team's effectiveness at taking away time and space, using active sticks, covering their man, stifling defence, keeping things to the outside etc. to The missed slash was BS. The effort to tie the game was great. But let's be honest, you pretty much knew when you saw Buff on the ice to start OT that we were going to lose the extra point.