Seravalli: Vegas looking to terminate Lehner deal after he failed to report for physical

[Billy Kvcmu]

Is there any actual basis for this or do fans just want to feel like their team is a victim?

Not small market but
Vancouver and Florida got penalized for a very legal Luongo contract that was signed when there was no 35+ contract rule.

Meanwhile, Mike Richard just suddenly disappear from LA’s salary cap

Marian Hossa suddenly has an equipment infection in Chicago

 

[JKG33]

Aren't you the same guy who said that Askarov would stay in Nashville after Saros re-upped in the Saros extension thread? It would be nice to not get lectured by someone with that level of hockey knowledge to the entire site.

I said he had no justification to demand a trade when he hadn't earned shit, but sure fudge all the details you want.

He cried and got his way

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I said he had no justification to demand a trade when he hadn't earned shit, but sure fudge all the details you want.

He cried and got his way

Regardless, you were wrong in that instance. Don't point your finger at other people not knowing the sport because they're mad at an obvious issue of the league having favorites.

 

[JKG33]

Regardless, you were wrong in that instance. Don't point your finger at other people not knowing the sport because they're mad at an obvious issue of the league having favorites.

I'm right far more than I'm wrong. You can't find anyone on this forum with a perfect track record.

What a player wanting a trade has to do with Lehner being a fatass, getting a payout, and people yet again crying about Vegas have to do with each other I have no idea. But you do you

 

[VeteranPresence]

What a player wanting a trade has to do with Lehner being a fatass, getting a payout, and people yet again crying about Vegas have to do with each other I have no idea. But you do you

If you want to insist this isn't a material benefit to Vegas, why didn't they just keep the player on LTIR?

 

[Lunatik]

You know, sometimes I wonder if society is getting dumber, or is it just how I am perceiving them... then I read a thread like this and I am 100% that it's not just my perception.

 

[HBK27]

Any contract deemed to me trying to circumvent the cap can be deemed illegal. They were penalized for the first contract they tried to submit to the league which was 17 years/102m and was denied by the NHL... they then signed the 15 year/100m that the league approved.

In a legal sense though, NJ did nothing wrong. There was absolutely no wording in the CBA that prevented teams from at deal of that length or a player up to a certain age.

Yes, they were trying to circumvent the cap to a degree (though the overall cap hit still would've eventually hit the books), but there was no actual rule they were breaking besides a vague "spirit of the CBA" catch-all that the league added to give them ambiguous discretion on issues such as this that they didn't foresee.

My overall argument though was that the punishment was never necessary as they simply rejected the first deal. No harm, no foul. All that deal did was point out a loophole that the NHL missed. Adding on an excessive penalty for submitting a rejected contract never made any sense.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

No Devils fan is arguing that contract was legal, we know the Devils cheated the contract not once but twice. The argument is that a team like Chicago signed Marian Hossa to an equally stupid contract and so did Vancouver with Luongo and neither team got docked of anything of any significance like NJ did. If you punish the Devils then punish those teams as well, punishing just the Devils in that scenario is nonsensical bullshit and it doesn't help when a Devils fan sees this shit happening with Lehner with a team that's gotten every break in the book to field a competitive team in its short history

That’s not true
Vancouver had cap penalty because Luongo retired before the contract ended. It was a the 35+ contract rule that was NOT a thing when the contract was signed

 

[HBK27]

I addressed it in an earlier post. The NHL and Vegas aren't trying to pick a fight with a guy who's gunna cry mental health the first chance he gets


See above

So...what's preventing another player down the line of (accurately or not) claiming mental health issues?

Not exactly that rare nowadays...

Quite a few players wind up on LTIR each year. Mental health issues are already a common issue in society. Doesn't seem like all that unique of a situation here that can't possibly happen again down the line.

 

[JKG33]

If you want to insist this isn't a material benefit to Vegas, why didn't they just keep the player on LTIR?

It's not a mutual benefit when the obvious answer is a contract termination

So...what's preventing another player down the line of (accurately or not) claiming mental health issues?

Not exactly that rare nowadays...

Quite a few players wind up on LTIR each year. Mental health issues are already a common issue in society. Doesn't seem like all that unique of a situation here that can't possibly happen again down the line.

The circus that's been Lehner's time in Vegas is certainly a unique situation

 

[Lunatik]

If you want to insist this isn't a material benefit to Vegas, why didn't they just keep the player on LTIR?

Jesus Christ....

It's a f***ing contract termination because he didn't report for his physical.

Knowing the NHLPA would file a grievance using his mental health as the justification for him missing his physical, they agreed to pay him out so they didn't have to deal with all the bullshit of the bad PR and this dragging on into the season.

It's that f***ing simple.
If you don't grasp that, you are intentionally being obtuse.

 

[HBK27]

Everyone else shows up, shows they can’t play and leaves. It’s documented they can’t play year in and year out. If they want to get paid, they show up.

That's because up until now, that was the only way to keep getting your money.

I'm sure there have been European or Russian players that weren't exactly thrilled with having to travel across the globe to show up and fail a physical.

If you can work out a deal with the team to not show up and still get paid - why not? In many cases, seems like a win-win for both the team and player.

 

[Lunatik]

In a legal sense though, NJ did nothing wrong. There was absolutely no wording in the CBA that prevented teams from at deal of that length or a player up to a certain age.

Yes, they were trying to circumvent the cap to a degree (though the overall cap hit still would've eventually hit the books), but there was no actual rule they were breaking besides a vague "spirit of the CBA" catch-all that the league added to give them ambiguous discretion on issues such as this that they didn't foresee.

My overall argument though was that the punishment was never necessary as they simply rejected the first deal. No harm, no foul. All that deal did was point out a loophole that the NHL missed. Adding on an excessive penalty for submitting a rejected contract never made any sense.

those loopholes are exactly why there is that catchall. It was obvious to anyone with a working brain they were trying to circumvent the cap and it was so bad even the NHL caught it.

 

[HBK27]

It's not a mutual benefit when the obvious answer is a contract termination


The circus that's been Lehner's time in Vegas is certainly a unique situation

I'm not 100% confident that contract termination would've gone so smoothly. NHLPA would've certainly fought it. There was a risk to Vegas here, thus why they agreed to this deal and to pay out Lehner.

Yeah, the Lehner saga in Vegas is unique but we're talking relevant parts of this deal and how teams/players could do something similar in the future. And in that sense we're strictly speaking about an LTIR player not showing up for his annual physical. That's it. Not sure why any of the other noise matters.

 

[JKG33]

I'm not 100% confident that contract termination would've gone so smoothly. NHLPA would've certainly fought it. There was a risk to Vegas here, thus why they agreed to this deal and to pay out Lehner.

Yeah, the Lehner saga in Vegas is unique but we're talking relevant parts of this deal and how teams/players could do something similar in the future. And in that sense we're strictly speaking about an LTIR player not showing up for his annual physical. That's it. Not sure why any of the other noise matters.

The other noise matters because that's what makes this situation a one off. If Lehner's threat of crying mental health didn't have this much evidence and the issue is only being overweight and not showing up, it'd be an easy suspension/termination. Look at Jake Dotchin a few years ago

 

[VeteranPresence]

It's not a mutual benefit when the obvious answer is a contract termination

Jesus Christ....

It's a f***ing contract termination because he didn't report for his physical.

Neither answers my question- why didn't Vegas just let Lehner not report, leave it in the league's hands, and happily keep him on LTIR if it doesn't benefit them? Hint: it does.

 

[JKG33]

Neither answers my question- why didn't Vegas just let Lehner not report, leave it in the league's hands, and happily keep him on LTIR if it doesn't benefit them? Hint: it does.

The benefit would be in a termination, which they obviously would prefer but the league doesn't want the PR shitstorm. So they find a middle ground. The league avoids the PR hit. Vegas gets the benefits of termination. Lehner gets his money. The whiners were gunna whine regardless

 

[oilers4life5]

Cool so cap circumventing again? NHL offices are a joke.

 

[Hockeylife2018]

Out of curiosity, in cases where both sides know a player isn't going to play again

Do players like the carey prices and chris prongers (at the time) still report for a physical every year?

 

[Lunatik]

Neither answers my question- why didn't Vegas just let Lehner not report, leave it in the league's hands, and happily keep him on LTIR if it doesn't benefit them? Hint: it does.

What the f*** are you talking about?

The physical is a requirement of LTIR, the league will not and cannot approve it without a physical.

No physical = No LTIR

So Vegas had 3 options...

1. Do nothing and be over the cap (not really an option)
2. Suspend Lehner w/o pay
3. Terminate the Contract

And both options 2 and 3 lead to the NHLPA fighting it and trying to get him money, and making a public stance about him not reporting due to mental health concerns.

Does Vegas benefit? Sure, but they were going to win if the NHLPA filed a grievance so while they're benefiting, they're also paying 4.5m that they likely wouldn't have had to pay if they were willing to deal with the grievance and all the bullshit that comes with it.

 

[JKG33]

Out of curiosity, in cases where both sides know a player isn't going to play again

Do players like the carey prices and chris prongers (at the time) still report for a physical every year?

I think I remember one of those players coming on a podcast like Chicklets and saying they do fly in for a day or whatever. The league allegedly does check in on these

 

[Lunatik]

Out of curiosity, in cases where both sides know a player isn't going to play again

Do players like the carey prices and chris prongers (at the time) still report for a physical every year?

Yes. A physical is required every year to be placed on LTIR. No Physical = No LTIR. Then since it's also a contract requirement, no physical also means no contract. If Lehner hadn't been so outspoken about his mental health concerns, the NHL and the Golden Knights likely would have been willing to just outright terminate the contract and deal with the grievance that always comes with a 1-sided contract termination.

 

[VeteranPresence]

The benefit would be in a termination, which they obviously would prefer but the league doesn't want the PR shitstorm. So they find a middle ground. The league avoids the PR hit. Vegas gets the benefits of termination. Lehner gets his money. The whiners were gunna whine regardless

Right, so Vegas gets a benefit no other team ever has in this situation. At least you can admit it's a rigged system, unlike...

Does Vegas benefit? Sure

There you go, that's all you had to say. Now we can focus on why Vegas gets these breaks and Vegas alone, and all the sordid questions that raises...

 

[JKG33]

Right, so Vegas gets a benefit no other team ever has in this situation. At least you can admit it's a rigged system, unlike...

I'd hardly call it a benefit when your $5m goalie goes off the deep end, becomes unplayable for 2 years, and then finally does something where he can be terminated. But by all means, whatever mental gymnastics you have to do to convince yourself it's rigged so you can sleep at night..

 

[Lunatik]

There you go, that's all you had to say. Now we can focus on why Vegas gets these breaks and Vegas alone, and all the sordid questions that raises...

This is why we're talking to you like you're a brick wall. This isn't f***ing exclusive to Vegas... Philly is trying to terminate a contract now too under different circumstances... the Kings, Sharks, Lightning have all terminated contracts.

Now please pull your head out of the dirt and stop believing in f***ing conspiracy theories... it is seriously the lowest form of "intelligence"