Seravalli: Vegas looking to terminate Lehner deal after he failed to report for physical

[Kalopsia]

I addressed it in an earlier post. The NHL and Vegas aren't trying to pick a fight with a guy who's gunna cry mental health the first chance he gets


See above

The thing is that by allowing a contact termination where the player still gets paid they're opening a huge new can of worms. Saying it's OK in this case because the player has a way to strong-arm the team into an outcome that the team itself wants... Do you see how that's an issue? Just keep terminating players' contracts while they have a possible grievance.

Let's say a team's got a player who'd otherwise spend the rest of his career on LTIR. Assuming the theater is even necessary, what's to stop a player who's too injured to play from saying they're too injured to report for their physical? The team of course terminates his contract for said breach, he says he'll raise a stink if if he's terminated due to a work-related injury, the team says oh no, I guess we've got no choice but to settle and pay your salary after terminating your contract and whaddya know, now we can bank cap space for the trade deadline!

How about a player who's really under-performing his contract. The team tells him partway through the season that they might have to consider buying him out this offseason if he doesn't improve, which is gonna mean he loses a chunk of the remaining salary coming to him on his contract. They suggest he goes to see a sports psychologist and he gets diagnosed with anxiety, depression, what have you. His play doesn't improve, so they suggest he fails to show up for his physical, and the Lehner situation repeats and the team's manufactured a free buyout. Is the NHL gonna get involved in investigating which cases of mental illness are severe enough for the Lehner-termination and which aren't?

My point is, this loophole seems incredibly easy to abuse since both the player and the team have an incentive to do it. If they don't provide a very clear explanation of how the Lehner situation happened and why it had to be resolved in such a unique way that happens to benefit both parties.

To my mind, the easiest way to handle this would've been to say if a player has documented mental health issues and claims they prevent him from appearing for his physical, that qualifies him for LTIR. That would acknowledge that mental illness is a real illness rather than some weird other category that gets its own unique treatment.

 

[Lunatik]

I'd hardly call it a benefit when your $5m goalie goes off the deep end, becomes unplayable for 2 years, and then finally does something where he can be terminated. But by all means, whatever mental gymnastics you have to do to convince yourself it's rigged so you can sleep at night..

the tinfoil hat is messing with his 5G from teh vaccine

 

[Lunatik]

The thing is that by allowing a contact termination where the player still gets paid they're opening a huge new can of worms.

You keep regurgitating this but that is simply not true.

The NHLPA will file a grievance against any 1-sided termination attempt and in many cases they get some or all of the money. In this case because of how outspoken Lehner has been about his mental health, and how public his erratic behaviour has been, they likely were allowed to skip the grievance and gave him his money so they didn't have to deal with the bullshit.

If Kylington hadn't showed up for his physical, Colorado likely would have been given the same benefit.

 

[Curufinwe]

Marian Hossa suddenly has an equipment infection in Chicago

It wasn't sudden. He dealt with the disease for years. The "hard pills" were Cyclosporine.

Hossa details career-ending eczema: 'My body told me there was no other way'

Marian Hossa is opening up about the skin condition that forced him to retire last May.The former star forward recently went into detail about the physical challenges he endured in the final years of his career in an interview with The Athletic's Scott Powers in his native Slovakia."I wasn't...

www.thescore.com

"I wasn't really thinking about the end, it just (came) basically, the eczema kind of told me," Hossa told Powers. "My body told me there was no other way. That's when I had to start thinking, 'Well, it could be.' Because my skin (was) almost like breaking. (It was) leaking from the wounds. (I was) missing practices."


Hossa said he was diagnosed with eczema six years ago, triggered by the combination of his sweat and hockey equipment. It was initially manageable but intensified over time, as red blotches began forming on his body.

Eventually, his condition affected more than just hockey.

"That's the one thing, I was still in great shape, I felt good. But I came home, I was afraid to touch my kids because (my) skin was not in a good shape," Hossa explained. "I said 'I'm not supposed to be like this. I'm not supposed to eat pills to play hockey.' Those pills are not easy pills. Those are hard pills. Every second week I have to go to (the) hospital to check my blood. If those pills don't affect me, something else (does).

"I said at what point should I be doing this to keep going? I have a life. I have a young family. I don't want to risk it with another year with the pills on me. So I just came to the thing where I had to make a big decision and I have to be like, 'Body says you have to stop.'"

 

[Kalopsia]

You keep regurgitating this but that is simply not true.

The NHLPA will file a grievance against any 1-sided termination attempt and in many cases they get some or all of the money. In this case because of how outspoken Lehner has been about his mental health, and how public his erratic behaviour has been, they likely were allowed to skip the grievance and gave him his money so they didn't have to deal with the bullshit.

If Kylington hadn't showed up for his physical, Colorado likely would have been given the same benefit.

In those cases the money paid to the player then counts against the salary cap. The Kings are still paying a "termination penalty" to Mike Richards until 2030. I've never heard of a team terminating a player's contract, paying all or a portion of it, and then not having a cap hit from it.

 

[VeteranPresence]

This is why we're talking to you like you're a brick wall. This isn't f***ing exclusive to Vegas... Philly is trying to terminate a contract now too under different circumstances... the Kings, Sharks, Lightning have all terminated contracts.

Contract terminations are not uncommon, no. What is uncommon (and unprecedented) is wiping the cap hit while still paying the player as if nothing happened.

Now please pull your head out of the dirt and stop believing in f***ing conspiracy theories... it is seriously the lowest form of "intelligence"

Fortunately I don't need to believe in conspiracies when Vegas' annual cap bullshittery is on full display for everyone to see...

 

[JKG33]

The thing is that by allowing a contact termination where the player still gets paid they're opening a huge new can of worms. Saying it's OK in this case because the player has a way to strong-arm the team into an outcome that the team itself wants... Do you see how that's an issue? Just keep terminating players' contracts while they have a possible grievance.

Let's say a team's got a player who'd otherwise spend the rest of his career on LTIR. Assuming the theater is even necessary, what's to stop a player who's too injured to play from saying they're too injured to report for their physical? The team of course terminates his contract for said breach, he says he'll raise a stink if if he's terminated due to a work-related injury, the team says oh no, I guess we've got no choice but to settle and pay your salary after terminating your contract and whaddya know, now we can bank cap space for the trade deadline!

How about a player who's really under-performing his contract. The team tells him partway through the season that they might have to consider buying him out this offseason if he doesn't improve, which is gonna mean he loses a chunk of the remaining salary coming to him on his contract. They suggest he goes to see a sports psychologist and he gets diagnosed with anxiety, depression, what have you. His play doesn't improve, so they suggest he fails to show up for his physical, and the Lehner situation repeats and the team's manufactured a free buyout. Is the NHL gonna get involved in investigating which cases of mental illness are severe enough for the Lehner-termination and which aren't?

My point is, this loophole seems incredibly easy to abuse since both the player and the team have an incentive to do it. If they don't provide a very clear explanation of how the Lehner situation happened and why it had to be resolved in such a unique way that happens to benefit both parties.

To my mind, the easiest way to handle this would've been to say if a player has documented mental health issues and claims they prevent him from appearing for his physical, that qualifies him for LTIR. That would acknowledge that mental illness is a real illness rather than some weird other category that gets its own unique treatment.

I do get what you're saying. And i do think in most cases the player and team would agree to use LTIR to save face.

But I can't stress enough what a unique situation this is. This isn't *just* a player refusing to report, (that's just what the team is trying to "get him" on), this is a player who got into arguments with the team over an injury, showed up overweight to camp multiple seasons, and then there's his whole snake obsession/farm/bankruptcy thing. A circus like this doesn't come around often, and requires an equally unique solution.

 

[Lunatik]

In those cases the money paid to the player then counts against the salary cap. The Kings are still paying a "termination penalty" to Mike Richards until 2030. I've never heard of a team terminating a player's contract, paying all or a portion of it, and then not having a cap hit from it.

Never heard of a LTIR player not showing up for a physical before either.

Not everything is some f***ing conspiracy that going to ruin the game.

Contract terminations are not uncommon, no. What is uncommon (and unprecedented) is wiping the cap hit while still paying the player as if nothing happened.



Fortunately I don't need to believe in conspiracies when Vegas' annual cap bullshittery is on full display for everyone to see...

View attachment 912113

I'm done, clearly you are going to believe what you want to believe because it gives you something to bitch and whine about.

I don't even f***ing like Vegas but this shit is just f***ing stupid and anyone that seriously believes this shit isn't worth the time of day. I'll go argue with the genius that thinks Devin Cooley should start over Dustin Wolf... it'll be more productive

 

[Korpse]

Never heard of a LTIR player not showing up for a physical before either.

How frequently do you hear about a LTIR player showing up for a physical?

 

[Korpse]

The understanding that he wouldn't report means there was an understanding he wouldn't be put on LTIR.

Does it? So when the league were made aware that Lehner wouldn't be attending training camp for a physical, they decided then that he wasn't going to be put on LTIR?

 

[Lunatik]

How frequently do you hear about a LTIR player showing up for a physical?

Every LTIR claim ever has had a physical, it's literally a requirement.

Talking about guys who show up for it would be like the bank calling you about the coffee transaction you've made every weekday for the past 5 years just tell you its not a problem

Do you have to rehearse reponses this f***ing terrible? Being this obtuse can't be a god given talent

 

[Korpse]

Every LTIR claim ever has had a physical, it's literally a requirement.

Talking about guys who show up for it would be like the bank calling you about the coffee transaction you've made every weekday for the past 5 years just tell you its not a problem

Do you have to rehearse reponses this f***ing terrible? Being this obtuse can't be a god given talent

And that's my point you don't hear about it because it's nothing more than a formality. You wouldn't know if accommodations have been made in the past and a player didn't show up for day 1 of training camp. Vegas, the NHL and NHLPA knew Lehner would not be attending so how did it get to this point and why was it settled.

 

[Lunatik]

And that's my point you don't hear about it because it's nothing more than a formality. You wouldn't know if accommodations have been made in the past and a player didn't show up for day 1 of training camp. Vegas, the NHL and NHLPA knew Lehner would not be attending so how did it get to this point and why was it settled.

it's been discussed ad nauseum

it got to this point because No physical = no LTIR

No LTIR means Vegas has 3 options.

• Do nothing and be over the cap... not an option
• Suspend without pay
• Terminate contract

Both 2 & 3 have the same result, the NHLPA files a grievance and uses his mental health as a platform to get him his money... which is bad PR for the NHL and Vegas... so they agreed to pay him out to avoid the bullshit that would come with the grievance.

It's really really simple and makes sense if you take 5 seconds and think about it logically

 

[Kalopsia]

Never heard of a LTIR player not showing up for a physical before either.

Not everything is some f***ing conspiracy that going to ruin the game.

Settle down man, I never said it was a conspiracy. You've probably never heard of LTIR players skipping physicals because they assumed if they didn't their contract would be terminated and they'd lose all their future salary. Apparently that's not necessarily the case anymore, and I think teams would be justified in being angry that this new version of contract termination was just made up on the spot when they potentially could've used it if they knew it was a possibility. I'd be saying that no matter what team this happened with.

 

[Oddbob]

On the plus side, I missed my physical with the Red Wings, but they were cool about it, said don't worry about it. There was talk of a personal pan pizza from Little Caesar's, but that might be a no go now.

 

[Juicy Pop]

Can we do this for Ellis then?

 

[Peter Griffin]

I think it’s pretty clear to everyone that Lehner and Vegas had this scenario planned out for awhile. Who would be surprised if Lehner received 100% of his salary under this mutual contract termination?

 

[gstommylee]

The thing is that by allowing a contact termination where the player still gets paid they're opening a huge new can of worms. Saying it's OK in this case because the player has a way to strong-arm the team into an outcome that the team itself wants... Do you see how that's an issue? Just keep terminating players' contracts while they have a possible grievance.

Let's say a team's got a player who'd otherwise spend the rest of his career on LTIR. Assuming the theater is even necessary, what's to stop a player who's too injured to play from saying they're too injured to report for their physical? The team of course terminates his contract for said breach, he says he'll raise a stink if if he's terminated due to a work-related injury, the team says oh no, I guess we've got no choice but to settle and pay your salary after terminating your contract and whaddya know, now we can bank cap space for the trade deadline!

How about a player who's really under-performing his contract. The team tells him partway through the season that they might have to consider buying him out this offseason if he doesn't improve, which is gonna mean he loses a chunk of the remaining salary coming to him on his contract. They suggest he goes to see a sports psychologist and he gets diagnosed with anxiety, depression, what have you. His play doesn't improve, so they suggest he fails to show up for his physical, and the Lehner situation repeats and the team's manufactured a free buyout. Is the NHL gonna get involved in investigating which cases of mental illness are severe enough for the Lehner-termination and which aren't?

My point is, this loophole seems incredibly easy to abuse since both the player and the team have an incentive to do it. If they don't provide a very clear explanation of how the Lehner situation happened and why it had to be resolved in such a unique way that happens to benefit both parties.

To my mind, the easiest way to handle this would've been to say if a player has documented mental health issues and claims they prevent him from appearing for his physical, that qualifies him for LTIR. That would acknowledge that mental illness is a real illness rather than some weird other category that gets its own unique treatment.

Or maybe this is an unique situation that warrants the solution that was done. NHLPA wasn't gonna let vegas terminate the contract just like that.

 

[gstommylee]

Settle down man, I never said it was a conspiracy. You've probably never heard of LTIR players skipping physicals because they assumed if they didn't their contract would be terminated and they'd lose all their future salary. Apparently that's not necessarily the case anymore, and I think teams would be justified in being angry that this new version of contract termination was just made up on the spot when they potentially could've used it if they knew it was a possibility. I'd be saying that no matter what team this happened with.

and this isn't going to happen with other teams... NHLPA and NHL settle things all the time.

Requiring a failed physical for LTIR exits for a darn reason so team can't abuse LTIR and just LTIR anyone just for the sake of it.

This settlement between the league union and vegas won't change a darn thing.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

The number of LTIR guys not showing up for their physicals is going to skyrocket.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Can Tucker Poolman retroactively skip his failed physical?

 

[gstommylee]

The number of LTIR guys not showing up for their physicals is going to skyrocket.

No it won't. Stop treating a unique situation as if its suddenly the norm...

 

[oobga]

The number of LTIR guys not showing up for their physicals is going to skyrocket.

Do they get nicely loaded up offshore bank accounts instead?

 

[SupremeTeam16]

My question is why would Vegas pay him the money?

Why are they afraid of a grievance from the PA on behalf of a player who will never play for them again? If they feel it’s a legitimate contract termination then they should be confident in an arbiter finding in their favour. Besides, what’s the worse that’s going to happen, it gets ruled against Vegas and they have to pay the money anyway? Whats the point of paying him before the process plays out unless you just want to give him the money.

 

[JKG33]

My question is why would Vegas pay him the money?

Why are they afraid of a grievance from the PA on behalf of a player who will never play for them again? If they feel it’s a legitimate contract termination then they should be confident in an arbiter finding in their favour. Besides, what’s the worse that’s going to happen, it gets ruled against Vegas and they have to pay the money anyway? Whats the point of paying him before the process plays out unless you just want to give him the money.

They (and more importantly, the NHL) are afraid of the inevitable shitstorm when the uniformed, click bait media pickup the story of a professional sports team terminating the contract of a poor innocent person struggling with mental health. Is it factual? No. But that doesn't matter in the low attention span TikTok world we're forced to live in