Proposal: Vancouver - Montreal

[Chose]

I understand MTL fans frame of reference on what competent defensive play looks like is a bit skewed since they have been the worst defensive team in hockey over the last 3 years.

/ mute dgibb10 #Troll

 

[Three On Zero]

I keep seeing this and thinking it’s something new, and every time I look it’s the same damn post

 

[Johnsie19]

And yet you want him. Funny how that works.

I absolutely do not want him haha. I'm here walking clueless people through the concept of value.

 

[Qwijibo]

I absolutely do not want him haha. I'm here walking clueless people through the concept of value.

Montreal is fine with keeping him. He's 23. Do you think he's a finished product? Lol If you want to talk about clueless. Maybe talk to the guy on your board who thinks hoglander will score 40 goals this year. Lol

 

[Johnsie19]

Montreal is fine with keeping him. He's 23. Do you think he's a finished product? Lol If you want to talk about clueless. Maybe talk to the guy on your board who thinks hoglander will score 40 goals this year. Lol

Hoglander isn't scoring 40. I do think he has all star upside in his career though. Unlikely to hit it because of his size but that is the level of skill he has.

I have like 9 people saying they wouldn't take basically two 1sts for Xekaj. It's clueless. It's fine that you might think he has some upside but sometimes you have to appreciate the value there.

Hoglander + 1st base for a trade is returning like a Rasmus Andersson, Necas, Murphy, Buchnevich before he signed. But ya 2nd percentile for WAR from Xekaj as a 23 yr old dman is not worth a ton on the trade market.

 

[Miller Time]

Literally explained why the Canucks didn't sign Lindholm because he was too expensive against the cap. You are bashing literally one of the best contract on our team and then saying I don't understand the cap. Sure thing pal.

Thanks for doubling down in proving my point

Hoglander + 1st base for a trade is returning like a Rasmus Andersson, Necas, Murphy, Buchnevich before he signed. But ya 2nd percentile for WAR from Xekaj as a 23 yr old dman is not worth a ton on the trade market.

And they say Habs fans are out to lunch

 

[Johnsie19]

Thanks for doubling down in proving my point

You just got bodied and this was the best you could come up with? I appreciate that you had no rebuttal and took the beating for the most part at least.

And they say Habs fans are out to lunch

You're right they do say that and we're all witnessing why

Fiala for 1st, prospect (faber who was a 2nd round pick)
Horvat for 1st, Raty (2nd rounder), cap dump
Hronek for 1st, 2nd
Reinhart for 1st, Devon Levi
Chychrun for 1st, 2 2nds
Mark Stone for Branstrom (1st), 2nd, Linberg (4th)
Ekholm retained for 1st, Shaefer (32nd pick), 4th, cap dump (Barrie)

So ya precedent on these types of trades is pretty well set. The ask is always 1st, young roster player and prospect.

In this case it would be for this:

bodied

 

[McJedi]

Hoglander is not what the Habs need, neither is a late 1st or mid/late round picks.

You think Harris and Evans are worth a 1st round pick and @ young, but small 20 G scorer? That’s very laughable.

Harris isn’t worth much of anything. Evans at 50% retained probably worth a late 2nd as a deadline rental.

 

[Sherwoo9]

His upside is indeed top4D.



Which we already have in our prospect pool. Only one Xhekaj D though.

There is actually 2

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

There is actually 2

Florian is a forward.

 

[Qwijibo]

Hoglander isn't scoring 40. I do think he has all star upside in his career though. Unlikely to hit it because of his size but that is the level of skill he has.

I have like 9 people saying they wouldn't take basically two 1sts for Xekaj. It's clueless. It's fine that you might think he has some upside but sometimes you have to appreciate the value there.

Hoglander + 1st base for a trade is returning like a Rasmus Andersson, Necas, Murphy, Buchnevich before he signed. But ya 2nd percentile for WAR from Xekaj as a 23 yr old dman is not worth a ton on the trade market.

Lol let me get this straight. Hoglander has all-star skill abd is basically the same as a 1st round pick in a trade but it's Montresl fans tgst are out to lunch? Hoglander just had an outlier season where he scored on over 20% of his shots. He's unlikely to ever repeat this past season. That's like calling Max Domi a 28 goal, 72 point guy because he had outlier season. Every fanbase is guilty of overvalueing thier players and you're certainly no difference if you think Hoglander is Allstar material and "basically a 1st" in a trade

 

[Sherwoo9]

Even if a 2017 civic has better value than a 2012 GMC sierra, sometimes you just prefer to keep the truck. Cause you always wanted a truck and you think it’s actually a good truck. Is that so hard to comprehend.

Florian is a forward.

Duh, thanks for the insight but it was just a joke. Did you edit the original post? Could have sweared the original phrase was “Only one Xhekaj tho”. Must have read too fast.

 

[Treb]

You think Harris and Evans are worth a 1st round pick and @ young, but small 20 G scorer? That’s very laughable.

Harris isn’t worth much of anything. Evans at 50% retained probably worth a late 2nd as a deadline rental.

Irrelevant. We do not want to trade for Hoglander.

 

[Treb]

There is actually 2

I said D, Florian is a forward.

 

[Sherwoo9]

I said D, Florian is a forward.

Yeah I read too fast and didn’t see letter D. Was just a joke

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

When is a rebuild over? Is it:

When the new core is assembled? (Montreal is here)

When the new core makes the playoffs?

When the new core arrive at maturity?

When the new core starts contending?

My post on page two I think was a bit combative, regarding my view on your rebuild.

I think the ideal rebuild, well the penultimate of it is when you've essentially drafted the bulk of the core. After that you add as best as you can any missing pieces to core and the supporting cast in as quick of a time as possible. At that point adding more prospects on top of a core drafted 3-5 years ago keeps you in a perpetual rebuild like the Sabres and soon to be wings picks and prospects are just as valuable as currency.

Just my opinion but with different draft picks the habs could be close but I don't see a 1c 1d or 1g.
Maybe the recent goalie drafted gets there but he's 4-5 years away.
Hutson will never be a 1D, there's no way he's gonna be able to match up against teams best players. The rest of the D don't have #1 upside, some solid players for sure. Suzuki is a solid #2 but definitely not a #1.

Maybe things workout but I'm adamant you need to draft a 1c and 1d for a successful rebuild, they are just to hard to get any other way.
Not a fan of Dach or Newhook and love Demidov but not a fan of Hughes other top picks too many wingers and #4-#5 dmen, the easiest pieces to aquire

To me the rebuild is over when you start climbing back up which I believe is what they're doing.

Other people think the rebuild is over only when you start to contend.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Yeah I read too fast and didn’t see letter D. Was just a joke

It wasn't my post. Don't know if it was edited.

 

[Treb]

My post on page two I think was a bit combative, regarding my view on your rebuild.

I think the ideal rebuild, well the penultimate of it is when you've essentially drafted the bulk of the core. After that you add as best as you can any missing pieces to core and the supporting cast in as quick of a time as possible. At that point adding more prospects on top of a core drafted 3-5 years ago keeps you in a perpetual rebuild like the Sabres and soon to be wings picks and prospects are just as valuable as currency.

Just my opinion but with different draft picks the habs could be close but I don't see a 1c 1d or 1g.
Maybe the recent goalie drafted gets there but he's 4-5 years away.
Hutson will never be a 1D, there's no way he's gonna be able to match up against teams best players. The rest of the D don't have #1 upside, some solid players for sure. Suzuki is a solid #2 but definitely not a #1.

Maybe things workout but I'm adamant you need to draft a 1c and 1d for a successful rebuild, they are just to hard to get any other way.
Not a fan of Dach or Newhook and love Demidov but not a fan of Hughes other top picks too many wingers and #4-#5 dmen, the easiest pieces to aquire

Suzuki just had a 33 goals 77 points season at 24 years old. He's definitely a #1C.

We may not have a Hedman type #1 D, but I think you are incorrect in your assessment of our pool. We should have a high quality balanced top4 if things go decent enough.

Montembeault isn't worse than some of the Cup winners of the cap era and I am very confident one of Dobes, Volokhin or Fowler will eventually replace him.

 

[Johnsie19]

Lol let me get this straight. Hoglander has all-star skill abd is basically the same as a 1st round pick in a trade but it's Montresl fans tgst are out to lunch? Hoglander just had an outlier season where he scored on over 20% of his shots. He's unlikely to ever repeat this past season. That's like calling Max Domi a 28 goal, 72 point guy because he had outlier season. Every fanbase is guilty of overvalueing thier players and you're certainly no difference if you think Hoglander is Allstar material and "basically a 1st" in a trade

When you have a supposed outlier season, in your first season back up in the NHL at 23 that is a good sign for the trend of a player. He made the team at 19 and played decently well which is impressive enough. The team was disfunctional and when they finally settle things down they gave let him play as "the guy" in the AHL and he impressed. So then he works his way back to the NHL, scores 24 goals from the 4th line. Ends the yr playing with Petey to try and spark Petey.

You can break down the counting stats all you want, and I agree the shooting % will come down but the role will likely expand too. With the opportunity he's been given he's done extremely well. And then he passes the eye test too as he is sublimely skilled, tenacious, quick, physical, doesn't shy away from corners.

The season after Domi scored 28 goals and 72 points there would have been good reason to believe he could do it again(barring extreme mitigating circumstances), he was like 23 and improving each yr.

Hoglander was a 2nd round pick, who is trendy up. His value is probably approaching a late first. Why not?

But again even if he was awful, and this was his one outlier season of production, you still wouldn't trade that along with a 1st for Xekaj. Xekaj being one of the worst stastical players in the entire league.

 

[Qwijibo]

When you have a supposed outlier season, in your first season back up in the NHL at 23 that is a good sign for the trend of a player. He made the team at 19 and played decently well which is impressive enough. The team was disfunctional and when they finally settle things down they gave let him play as "the guy" in the AHL and he impressed. So then he works his way back to the NHL, scores 24 goals from the 4th line. Ends the yr playing with Petey to try and spark Petey.

You can break down the counting stats all you want, and I agree the shooting % will come down but the role will likely expand too. With the opportunity he's been given he's done extremely well. And then he passes the eye test too as he is sublimely skilled, tenacious, quick, physical, doesn't shy away from corners.

The season after Domi scored 28 goals and 72 points there would have been good reason to believe he could do it again(barring extreme mitigating circumstances), he was like 23 and improving each yr.

Hoglander was a 2nd round pick, who is trendy up. His value is probably approaching a late first. Why not?

But again even if he was awful, and this was his one outlier season of production, you still wouldn't trade that along with a 1st for Xekaj. Xekaj being one of the worst stastical players in the entire league.

Context. Hoglander doesn't bring anything to Montreal they don't have. Your suggestion that he has all-star skill is laughable. Xhekaj is a unicorn in this league. Hughes has turned away countless gms who were inquiring about him.

 

[Johnsie19]

Context. Hoglander doesn't bring anything to Montreal they don't have. Your suggestion that he has all-star skill is laughable. Xhekaj is a unicorn in this league. Hughes has turned away countless gms who were inquiring about him.

I mean the guy is 5'9" and he scored 24 goals in 12 mins a game without pp and largely with inept linemates. Not sure what is laughable about saying he has all star level upside. Again not even expecting him to reach that, a lot of things would have to go right but he can fall well short of that and still be a really good player. You'd have to watch him nightly to get it though you can just rely on stats for that stuff. Even if the stats and underlying stats suggest good things. Which is something we can't say about Xekaj.

How is Xekaj a unicorn?

 

[Xirik]

I mean the guy is 5'9" and he scored 24 goals in 12 mins a game without pp and largely with inept linemates. Not sure what is laughable about saying he has all star level upside. Again not even expecting him to reach that, a lot of things would have to go right but he can fall well short of that and still be a really good player. You'd have to watch him nightly to get it though you can just rely on stats for that stuff. Even if the stats and underlying stats suggest good things. Which is something we can't say about Xekaj.

How is Xekaj a unicorn?

He big,
He hit.
He undrafted.
He defenseman.
He plays Defense?

 

[Qwijibo]

I mean the guy is 5'9" and he scored 24 goals in 12 mins a game without pp and largely with inept linemates. Not sure what is laughable about saying he has all star level upside. Again not even expecting him to reach that, a lot of things would have to go right but he can fall well short of that and still be a really good player. You'd have to watch him nightly to get it though you can just rely on stats for that stuff. Even if the stats and underlying stats suggest good things. Which is something we can't say about Xekaj.

How is Xekaj a unicorn?

Ignoring Hoglanders unsustainable shooting percentage again? He's a 15 goal guy who had an unrepeatable outlier season

 

[TBF1972]

Suzuki just had a 33 goals 77 points season at 24 years old. He's definitely a #1C.

We may not have a Hedman type #1 D, but I think you are incorrect in your assessment of our pool. We should have a high quality balanced top4 if things go decent enough.

Montembeault isn't worse than some of the Cup winners of the cap era and I am very confident one of Dobes, Volokhin or Fowler will eventually replace him.

hoglander had an outlier season because of his shooting percentage. what about suzuki's 17.8%?

 

[Mrb1p]

Value wise it's good but Hoglander is too small.