Vancouver led the league in points at Christmas, Can they continue this run into the New Year?

Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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The problem is that Oilers fans never once discussed other stats, other factors and other intangibles in the Canucks game and have isolated PDO and Shooting percentage as the only important stat and factor to determining if a team is good or bad or if they will regress and come back down to earth. It's just ridiculous and makes any debate with them not worth it because they stubbornly refuse to acknowledge anything else outside PDO and shooting percentage.


Yeah they are definitely comparable to those 80s Oilers team. Why not??
Why not?

Well, one of those teams has Gretzky Coffey and about 5 other hall of famers.

The other is Vancouver, its highly unlikely they are comparable to that team.

What other stats factors and intangibles would you like to discuss?

Certainly not their scoring chances for or against, or the expected goals

You also call out the Oilers for barely beating a team they should easily beat today, meanwhile, your canucks beat a team they should easily beat, by 1 goal also.

Weird.
 

jackjohnson

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Feb 9, 2021
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Why not?

Well, one of those teams has Gretzky Coffey and about 5 other hall of famers.

The other is Vancouver, its highly unlikely they are comparable to that team.

What other stats factors and intangibles would you like to discuss?

Certainly not their scoring chances for or against, or the expected goals

You also call out the Oilers for barely beating a team they should easily beat today, meanwhile, your canucks beat a team they should easily beat, by 1 goal also.

Weird.
The Canucks have scored 5 to 6 goals for 4 games straight against all 3 new York teams and surging pens on a road trip that had them on a back to back and 3 games in 4 night while the 5th game being an early 4pm est start time. While the Oilers played trash teams like Anaheim, Chicago, senators, Detroit, Montreal, sharks etc. In their 10 game win streak. So Oilers schedule was way too easy yet they barely beat Chicago, Detroit, Montreal and Ottawa.
 

jackjohnson

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What do you call barely beating the Sabres who are one of the worst teams in the league? Can you be a bigger hypocrite?
Barely beating Sabres at the tail end of a road trip that had us playing 3 games inn4 nights is impressive. Especially when we had to beat NYI which the Oilers lost to, NYR, NJD, Pittsburgh etc. And the start time for the Sabres game was stupid and early which Canucks don't usually wake up for. The rested Oilers faced three trash teams consecutively with rests in between and also a big break between the Sens and Chicago game. But go on, tell me how it's the same 🙄
 

Saltcreek

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Nov 23, 2016
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Barely beating Sabres at the tail end of a road trip that had us playing 3 games inn4 nights is impressive. Especially when we had to beat NYI which the Oilers lost to, NYR, NJD, Pittsburgh etc. And the start time for the Sabres game was stupid and early which Canucks don't usually wake up for. The rested Oilers faced three trash teams consecutively with rests in between and also a big break between the Sens and Chicago game. But go on, tell me how it's the same 🙄
Blah blah blah. Excuses and hypocrisy. When Vancouver struggled with a bad team it isn’t their fault but when another team does they suck.

Pathetic.

PS the 3 games the Oilers lost prior to the win streak are irrelevant unless you are arguing they should win 13 in a row or simply not lose another game all season…
 

jackjohnson

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Blah blah blah. Excuses and hypocrisy. When Vancouver struggled with a bad team it isn’t their fault but when another team does they suck.

Pathetic.

PS the 3 games the Oilers lost prior to the win streak are irrelevant unless you are arguing they should win 13 in a row or simply not lose another game all season…
Their 10 game streak is fradulent, it was mostly trash teams plus struggling kings that are on an 8 game losing streak. You guys beat the Sens, Sharks, Habs, hawks, Ducks, wings, struggling kings. Those are 7 easy wins. Only decent teams you beat were NJD, NYR and PHI. The rest was a cake walk
 

Saltcreek

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Their 10 game streak is fradulent, it was mostly trash teams plus struggling kings that are on an 8 game losing streak. You guys beat the Sens, Sharks, Habs, hawks, Ducks, wings, struggling kings. Those are 7 easy wins. Only decent teams you beat were NJD, NYR and PHI. The rest was a cake walk
Please explain to me how the Oilers have committed fraud? I want to hear this, how have they cheated their win?

I want a game by game analysis on this one.
 

jackjohnson

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Feb 9, 2021
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Please explain to me how the Oilers have committed fraud? I want to hear this, how have they cheated their win?

I want a game by game analysis on this one.
They are not as good as their "10 game" win streak suggests. Give Canucks 20 of these easy games and they will have a 20 game win streak. Oilers were just lucky to have such a easy stretch along with lots of break in between the Sens and hawks right at middle of their win streak. Switch the Canucks schedule with Oilers and they would not have the 10 game win streak. Anyways everyone knows it's unsustainable play especially when facing weak teams. They will struggle when they face a playoff team that actually plays well.
 

Dust

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Their 10 game streak is fradulent, it was mostly trash teams plus struggling kings that are on an 8 game losing streak. You guys beat the Sens, Sharks, Habs, hawks, Ducks, wings, struggling kings. Those are 7 easy wins. Only decent teams you beat were NJD, NYR and PHI. The rest was a cake walk

You really need to learn how to just enjoy Vancouver's great season and not worry about finding ways to discredit the rest of the teams. Life if short, enjoy it.
 

jackjohnson

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Feb 9, 2021
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You really need to learn how to just enjoy Vancouver's great season and not worry about finding ways to discredit the rest of the teams. Life if short, enjoy it.
Isn't it hypocritical that you say this while you and your peers do the same thing ??
 

Saltcreek

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Nov 23, 2016
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They are not as good as their "10 game" win streak suggests. Give Canucks 20 of these easy games and they will have a 20 game win streak. Oilers were just lucky to have such an easy stretch along with lots of break in between the Sens and hawks right at middle of their win streak. Switch the Canucks schedule with Oilers and they would not have the 10 game win streak. Anyways everyone knows it's unsustainable play especially when facing weak teams. They will struggle when they face a playoff team that actually plays well.
Vancouver will win 20 in a row when no other team has ever done it? Interesting.

Also, I was not aware that Edmonton has not played any playoff teams this season, I guess the Jets are not a playoff team?
 

Dust

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Isn't it hypocritical that you say this while you and your peers do the same thing ??

I'm not out here calling other teams frauds. I'm just enjoying the hockey. I think there's lots of good viewpoints in this thread, be open minded and don't get so defensive on them all. It is possible that people are right AND Vancouver is still a great team.
 

Saltcreek

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I'm not out here calling other teams frauds. I'm just enjoying the hockey. I think there's lots of good viewpoints in this thread, be open minded and don't get so defensive on them all. It is possible that people are right AND Vancouver is still a great team.

The bold is what a lot of people are missing. There is nothing wrong with saying that what Vancouver is currently doing is not sustainable because as history has shown us that is true however, that does not mean that Vancouver is a bad team.

It is much like Edmonton. They had a horrible start and then over corrected to where they are now. Everyone had them at the top of the division and not at the bottom of the league. No logical person would think how they started was their actual level of performance.
 
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Dust

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The bold is what a lot of people are missing. There is nothing wrong with saying that what Vancouver is currently doing is not sustainable because as history has shown us that is true however, that does not mean that Vancouver is a bad team.

It is much like Edmonton. They had a horrible start and then over corrected to where they are now. Everyone had them at the top of the division and not at the bottom of the league. No logical person would think how they started was their actual level of performance.

Yup. I'll eat my hat if Vancouver finishes the season with a shooting percentage over 13.5%. However, they are more than likely going to run away with the Pacific division regardless of that. Pretty much already stamped in a top 3 spot in the Pacific and a playoff birth. They are very good.
 

Saltcreek

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Yup. I'll eat my hat if Vancouver finishes the season with a shooting percentage over 13.5%. However, they are more than likely going to run away with the Pacific division regardless of that. Pretty much already stamped in a top 3 spot in the Pacific and a playoff birth. They are very good.
They could end over 13.5% however it will not carry over to the playoffs (where the rules of the game unfortunately change) and it will not happen next year.

Sometimes everything lines up and you just win. Look at the Bruins last year.
 

Fishy McScales

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Apr 22, 2006
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I would like to see an argument for the inverse: The Sharks have the lowest PDO in the league, at 96.9. It is also historically low and unprecedented. Does that make their roster of AHL scrubs unlucky?

Who wants to argue that this is unsustainable? That they will progress to the mean by the end of the year? That they'll play much better, maybe even .500+ hockey?
It is nowhere near as unprecedented as the Canucks' PDO in the other end.

Also, the season is only half-way done.
 

Bank Shot

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Jan 18, 2006
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People have mentioned that other teams with exceptionally high PDOs played similar styles, so I'm inclined to believe that ("all teams" playing similarly is not what I've observed, though-- many have much more of a "don't overthink it and get everything on net you can" mentality, and honestly that could be a better approach overall, despite a lower PDO).
Genrally teams with consistently high PDOs do it with goaltending and defence. Not shooting percentage. If you can find me a team that is consistently top five in 5v5 shooting % I'd also like to see it.

Teams do play a little differently, but the majority of the difference comes down to whether teams are good or bad. In the defensive end teams generally play man on man, zone, or box+1. There are a few types of forechecks and neutral zone systems, but many teams use a variety of these systems depending on the situation.

Again, if you can find teams that have consistently shot the lights out for a 3 year stretch, let me know.

Also shooting % generally stays consistent for players when they change teams, but team shooting % bounces around a lot. I guess this is due to talent level and shot selection choices for individual players.
I don't know if it will continue (the evidence seems to overwhelmingly point towards "no", but I'd like to know why). Style also isn't only dictated by how a coach historically does things, it's also driven by personnel, and the coach adapts to that. Most coaches don't have one set style, from what I've observed, and I've seen them completely 180 their approach during their tenure due to what they have to work with.
Almost all teams have more in common with systems play than they do differences. You don't see teams play a 1-4 shell all game, and you don't see teams doing a 4 man forecheck. I think the general ideas of what works the best in hockey are pretty well established, and if someone does start doing something different that works (like the drop pass entry on the PP) it is picked up and utilized almost immediately by other teams becase they are constantly analyzing video.

Just look at shots per game data. The Oilers are shooting the most in the NHL rn. They take 34 shots per game. The Ducks are 26th at 29. The difference between the no 1 team and the 26th team is only 5 shots per game. That's peanuts and mostly has to do with strength of roster. The difference between systems leads to a difference of about 2 shots per game or less for most teams. It is nearly nothing.
I have the same uncertainties about shot percentage, to be honest. Sure, history shows that shot percentage always regresses to the mean, but again, I'm curious why, and why a player couldn't in theory be so averse to shooting from everywhere that they end up with high shooting percentages (even if the worst-case result is that they never get many shots and end up poor players overall).

Here are the shooting percentage leaders since 1990 with over 500 games played.

Gary Roberts 1 with 18.7%
Alex Tanguay 2 with 18.6%
Draisaitl 3 with 18.1 %

Top six forwards generally fall between 10-16%.

I'm not uncertain that the shooting percentages for the Canucks players shooting the lights out will fall. I'm certain. The only question is when.

Your average 20 goal scorer only gets maybe 2-3 tap ins per year. Goals are hard to score in the NHL. If you had a theoretical player that was so averse to shooting that they had a 30% shooting percentage they would score like 4 goals per year and pass up many potential goals. That would be like employing a player that only turns left, or a player that only takes slapshots. Any player that doesn't have enough hockey sense to shoot the puck on quality chances just isn't going to be good enough to make the NHL.
 
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Sykur

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Apr 11, 2011
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It is nowhere near as unprecedented as the Canucks' PDO in the other end.

But in order for the Canucks to come down.... the San Jose Sharks must come up.

Do you honestly see that happening?

boardroom-canucks-pdo.jpg
 

HockeyWooot

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Jan 28, 2020
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Maybe folks should watch the Canucks first? The rate of blowing out teams probably will slow down, but they still a lot of the fundamentals of winning hockey.

They score first, a lot. They defend well with the lead particularly after 40.

They don't waste shots from the perimeter, they'll do the dirty work to get the puck to high danger areas. They are significantly better at winning 50/50 puck battles than under prior coaches. They have a lot of players throughout the lineup who shoot well.

On defense they keep teams to the outside, to take perimeter shots which Demko can take care of.
 

Fishy McScales

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Apr 22, 2006
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Maybe folks should watch the Canucks first? The rate of blowing out teams probably will slow down, but they still a lot of the fundamentals of winning hockey.

They score first, a lot. They defend well with the lead particularly after 40.

They don't waste shots from the perimeter, they'll do the dirty work to get the puck to high danger areas. They are significantly better at winning 50/50 puck battles than under prior coaches. They have a lot of players throughout the lineup who shoot well.

On defense they keep teams to the outside, to take perimeter shots which Demko can take care of.
Most opposing fans aren't saying the Canucks are playing poorly. They're not even watching the games as you say.

They're saying the Canucks have an unsustainable PDO. They have.

Like why even argue about it? The only reason this thread is going on 50 pages is because Canucks fans are trying to address a point that largely isn't being made.
 

TheOrangeDesk

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May 27, 2015
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Do you guys only know how to talk about stats and nothing else? Do you watch Canucks games? If not, then why keep regurgitating the same stupid stat everyday since the beginning of the season? No Canucks fan care about this PDO talk except for Oilers fans still trying to troll Canucks fans and the great season their team has. It comes off as petty. The fact that you guys keep saying it's unsustainable becomes pretty annoying especially when repeated every day 😒
There are lots of stats to show Canucks are mediocre, shots%, xgf%, hdcf%. But If you can't underarand a basic stat like pdo the rest are hopeless
 

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