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Proposal: Vancouver - Boston

scottawa

scottawa

Registered User
Apr 21, 2016
22
6
Vancouver:
C - Brandon Sutter $4.36 (retain $1.25)
LW - Tim Schaller $1.90
LD - Olli Juolevi $0.863

Boston:
LD - John Moore $2.75
LW - Danton Heinen $0.873
LD - Jakub Zboril $0.863
 
Huge no from the Bruins. Prospects are probably fairly equal value but the NHL players being given up are miles better from Boston.
 
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I don't really see a benefit here from Vancouver. Juolevi is one of our few prospects that has a chance to be a game changer and I don't see Zboril doing as well as Juolevi could (not will but could).

Moore and Heinen would be an upgrade on Schaller and Sutter but I don't think it's worth it.
 
Not sure I see any value for either team.

Olli Juolevi has more potential than Zboril, which of course makes him more valuable to Vancouver who can wait and gamble on the potential

Sutter's could fill Boston 3rd line center in the short term, but is signed long term and causes a big cap problem in years 2 and 3. Heinen is a better value despite having a rough year.

Tim Schaller is making 1.9 million, How on earth is that even possible? We had him the last 2 years, class kid, decent 4th line player. How on earth is he getting 1.9 million a year for 2 years?

Moore is solid, spending some time in the press box, but still has a lot of value in Boston, especially as we get to postseason. TB beat up on Boston's Gryz and Krug in postseason last year, and Moore was brought in to add size
 
scottawa said:
Vancouver:
C - Brandon Sutter $4.36 (retain $1.25)
LW - Tim Schaller $1.90
LD - Olli Juolevi $0.863

Boston:
LD - John Moore $2.75
LW - Danton Heinen $0.873
LD - Jakub Zboril $0.863
Click to expand...

Remove Schiller and include Virtanen and it's probably a deal.
Boston could use Virtanens toughness while you could use Heinens
scoring seeing now that one of your top 6 is basically done for the season with a concussion. I'd hate to give up Zboril too as some claim he has top 4 written all over him.
 
scottawa said:
Vancouver:
C - Brandon Sutter $4.36 (retain $1.25)
LW - Tim Schaller $1.90
LD - Olli Juolevi $0.863

Boston:
LD - John Moore $2.75
LW - Danton Heinen $0.873
LD - Jakub Zboril $0.863
Click to expand...
Boston's #1 need is secondary scoring. Your trade makes that worse.
 
bruins2011 said:
Remove Schiller and include Virtanen and it's probably a deal.
Boston could use Virtanens toughness while you could use Heinens
scoring seeing now that one of your top 6 is basically done for the season with a concussion. I'd hate to give up Zboril too as some claim he has top 4 written all over him.
Click to expand...


Sorry, did you say that VAN needs Heinen's scoring while giving up Virtanen in the process? Just making sure.


The don godfather said:
Virtanen for danton is a fair square deal.
Click to expand...


Hello again dg, as you know, the average VAN fan values Virtanen much higher than he would Heinen. That swap doesn't make sense.

The piece that should be going back for Heinen is Goldobin, IMO. A trade off of scoring and 2way play. However, now that Heinen has had a few good games, I don't expect Bs fans to find that deal palatable.
 
Ronning On Empty said:
The piece that should be going back for Heinen is Goldobin, IMO. A trade off of scoring and 2way play. However, now that Heinen has had a few good games, I don't expect Bs fans to find that deal palatable.
Click to expand...

It's not an awful substitution but Goldobin is another left shot winger, like Heinen. Bruins really could use a right shot RWer. Not sure it makes much sense for the Bruins to do a Goldobin/Heinen swap. You're getting better point production this year, but Goldobin has less goals than Heinen while getting almost 2 minutes more TOI. 5v5 production, Heinen has been better in terms of goals, and only has 2 less points. And Heinen has been the better overall producer, thus far, in their careers. With him being good defensively as well, I just don't see the point.
 
Vancouver retained on both loungo and del zotto don't think you can retain on more than 2 players?!
 
BruinsFanSince94 said:
It's not an awful substitution but Goldobin is another left shot winger, like Heinen. Bruins really could use a right shot RWer. Not sure it makes much sense for the Bruins to do a Goldobin/Heinen swap. You're getting better point production this year, but Goldobin has less goals than Heinen while getting almost 2 minutes more TOI. 5v5 production, Heinen has been better in terms of goals, and only has 2 less points. And Heinen has been the better overall producer, thus far, in their careers. With him being good defensively as well, I just don't see the point.
Click to expand...


All fair points.

Right now, it's looking like a comparison between a 40~ point player and a 26~ point player. The difference largely coming down to PPPs. The power play is often critical in buoying a player's counting stats, as I'm sure you know, and I would think that Goldobin's skill is more a fixture there than Heinen's skill, but perhaps I am wrong?

Normally, when trading off an offensive player for a 2way player, I would be looking at PK work for the 2way player, but Heinen doesn't seem to have a track record there...?

The closeness in EVP/GP is why I think this trade makes sense. If there were more of a drop off going from Goldobin to Heinen, I wouldn't trade Goldobin. 2way play is great, but there's a threshold in that trade off, IMO.

Heinen had a great year last year. This year, not so much. So it's about his projection moving forward. What do you see him becoming as he develops?
 
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Ronning On Empty said:
Right now, it's looking like a comparison between a 40~ point player and a 26~ point player. The difference largely coming down to PPPs. The power play is often critical in buoying a player's counting stats, as I'm sure you know, and I would think that Goldobin's skill is more a fixture there than Heinen's skill, but perhaps I am wrong?
Click to expand...

I would agree with you. Goldobin is a better piece on a PP than Heinen. Danton is a player that you would prefer on your second unit as a guy who can set up. He'd be good on the half wall.

Normally, when trading off an offensive player for a 2way player, I would be looking at PK work for the 2way player, but Heinen doesn't seem to have a track record there...?
Click to expand...

Heinen not being on the PK is bizarre to me, and I'm sure you could find other Bruins fans who would agree. He would be a good option to through out there. Bruins do have some good PKers already, but I think it'd be wise for them to start getting him more involved on the penalty kill.

Heinen had a great year last year. This year, not so much. So it's about his projection moving forward. What do you see him becoming as he develops?
Click to expand...

I think Heinen has potential to develop into a middle 6 winger who can give you around 20 goals, 50 points while providing sound defense if given the right minutes.
 
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BruinsFanSince94 said:
I would agree with you. Goldobin is a better piece on a PP than Heinen. Danton is a player that you would prefer on your second unit as a guy who can set up. He'd be good on the half wall.

Heinen not being on the PK is bizarre to me, and I'm sure you could find other Bruins fans who would agree. He would be a good option to through out there. Bruins do have some good PKers already, but I think it'd be wise for them to start getting him more involved on the penalty kill.

I think Heinen has potential to develop into a middle 6 winger who can give you around 20 goals, 50 points while providing sound defense if given the right minutes.
Click to expand...


Ok, that makes sense. If you project him as a 50 point, 2way winger then a 50 point 1way winger is unnecessary. However, if you project him as a 30 point, 2way winger that will struggle to be the 1st option on either special teams unit, then there is a clear trade off.

I have posted on Heinen before. I think he will be hard pressed to get 50 points a year moving forward because of his shooting skill/frequency. He will have to rely on his playmaking to do it. Is it good enough? Well, I'm positive Goldobin's playmaking is better and even he will be hard pressed to consistently hit 50 points based on his shot skill/frequency. His one key advantage is that will be used on the PP.

Here's my breakdown of Heinen's play from an earlier post:

He's a smart player. I think your read on him in terms of style is the same as mine. Good board play and he can keep up with better players. Where we differ is the read on his upside. To break down why, here are few points:

- Heinen has 58 shots in 35 games this year. An average of 1.66 shots per game. Last year, he had 135 shots in 77 games. An average of 1.75 shots per game. So I think it's reasonable to project him at about 1.7 shots per game, given a similar PP usage.

- Last year, he shot at 11.8%. You have said that you don't see him as a 6.9% shooter. These percentages are divergent enough that we can't make a safe guess on true talent. To me, he has a decent shot, but it is not a plus shot and he does not use it often enough. Generally, the 180th ranked forward (cut off for top6) shoots at about 11%. If we use that number, he's at 6 goals this year instead of 4 goals. If we use this again for 1.7 shots * 82 games it equals 15 goals. Does that drastically change the perception of him?

- Last year, he had 154 mins of PP time in 77 games. This year, he's at 56 mins of PP time in 35 games. And so, he seems to average about 1:40 mins to 2:00 mins of PP time over that span.

- He is not used on the PK, last season or this season. He finished 8th among forwards in SH TOI last season. This season, he's 13th.

- He's behind the 180th rank forward per Shot Attempts Rel % at 5v5.

Overall, this doesn't seem like a player that will shoot his way to becoming a top6er. He will have to rely on his assists. Maybe he's a good enough playmaker to do it, maybe. Far more likely he settles into the bottom6. Doubly so if he loses his PP time. At that point, things get tricky.
Click to expand...
 
JoeIsAStud said:
Not sure I see any value for either team.

Olli Juolevi has more potential than Zboril, which of course makes him more valuable to Vancouver who can wait and gamble on the potential

Sutter's could fill Boston 3rd line center in the short term, but is signed long term and causes a big cap problem in years 2 and 3. Heinen is a better value despite having a rough year.

Tim Schaller is making 1.9 million, How on earth is that even possible? We had him the last 2 years, class kid, decent 4th line player. How on earth is he getting 1.9 million a year for 2 years?

Moore is solid, spending some time in the press box, but still has a lot of value in Boston, especially as we get to postseason. TB beat up on Boston's Gryz and Krug in postseason last year, and Moore was brought in to add size
Click to expand...

Watching both closely I can tell you that this is no longer the case. The Canucks would be happy if Juolevi made the NHL as a 2nd pairing player. That's it. Zboril has more offensive upside and showed he could play well in the NHL.

If anything the trade should be around a hockey trade Heinen for Virtanen.
 
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Ronning On Empty said:
Ok, that makes sense. If you project him as a 50 point, 2way winger then a 50 point 1way winger is unnecessary. However, if you project him as a 30 point, 2way winger that will struggle to be the 1st option on either special teams unit, then there is a clear trade off.

I have posted on Heinen before. I think he will be hard pressed to get 50 points a year moving forward because of his shooting skill/frequency. He will have to rely on his playmaking to do it. Is it good enough? Well, I'm positive Goldobin's playmaking is better and even he will be hard pressed to consistently hit 50 points based on his shot skill/frequency. His one key advantage is that will be used on the PP.

Here's my breakdown of Heinen's play from an earlier post:
Click to expand...

I've been a big advocate for Heinen to Vancouver to play with Horvat. Such a great fit.
 
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