Value of: Value of Mittelstadt

[Dipsy Doodle]

He just turned 22 today. Comes back to a familiar theme with bad teams who end up putting players into the NHL early. 30 points in 34 games with U Minn. good numbers but not insane. Was he really ready to make the jump or was a sophomore year better for him?

with Stall on board and Cozens coming up they can afford to shift him to the wing. They still need a C who can be a checking and PK guy but can find that via free agency or something.

That’s probably where he is best suited. Some C prospects just end up on the wing in the pros. Just a better fit for them.

Even on wing, I'm not sure how valuable Mittelstadt would be to another team right now.

Who really needs a one-dimensional 25 point winger that they have to use a protected spot on? I don't know many teams that would. Those gotta be some sorry franchises.

That's not to say he doesn't have nice potential if everything breaks right for him, but when you're entering a year when an expansion team can pick over your roster, the equation changes. That's the x-factor.

 

[Djp]

I think odds of him top line centre on any team in the NHL are beyond low. In half of season in Rochester, he did not do much to indicate he's a first line player in AHL let along big leagues. Maybe he learns a two-way game or something but he's 22 and doesn't look like he can be any sort of star in the NHL

this is his 21 yr old season. He’d be 22 at the start of the season based on draft eligibility.

therehave bern countless players who didn’t dhowthrmsrlves fully until they were 23-24 yrs old.

 

[bashbros32]

Pretty bad deal for the sens

I especially like the part where he says "I think Mittlestadt is better suited for the wing" and then IMMEDIATELY proposes he become Ottawa's #1 C... like what.

 

[Kaibur]

Are the Sabres going into the season with Ullmark and Hutton as the tandem in goal? I would have thought an upgrade was coming, but we're only a few weeks from the supposed puck drop.

 

[bernmeister]

I know players have done that to carve out an NHL career but I just don't see that as CM path. He's not a high energy guy whose goal scoring didn't translate. He's a talented player who didn't show off his skill because of seemingly low energy, low effort. If he can get that effort and physicality up to NHL standards, he'll be a skill player. I don't think he needs to reinvent himself, he just needs to be more physically fit and involved to succeed. True boom or bust

Agree and I am not going to criticize his effort unless I see a reason to do so; unfortunately, he is already approaching creampuff territory.

 

[bernmeister]

There is a certain amount of logic to this, and it is not entirely wrong.
However, there is a dif.

Lias has a motor and nothing else, and it is unclear he can/will be able to skate at NHL level.

CM, his prob is he needs triple Wheaties, steaks, spinach IV, and whatever else will bulk him up. If he keeps up where he's going current direction, he'll be certified creampuff.
But unlike Lias, Casey already has talent. He just needs strength, IF IF IF IF he can put on enough muscle w/o losing critical degree of flexibility, he could still be a success.

Not a top 10 pick/elite success, but success.

...... because the ability to play in front of the net and score garbage goals is "nothing else".

Lias Andersson should not be confused with Tim Kerr.
Given your above statement, it appears apparently you are confused.

 

[Matt Ress]

Agree and I am not going to criticize his effort unless I see a reason to do so; unfortunately, he is already approaching creampuff territory.

It's been disappointing. With that, he took some nice strides in Rochester last year and from what I've heard, he has used this time off productively. We'll see

 

[Dr Quincy]

Lias Andersson should not be confused with Tim Kerr.
Given your above statement, it appears apparently you are confused.

Or maybe I've watched him play in the SHL and maybe you've stopped caring after he left your team.

That would explain your lack of knowledge of his game.

 

[bernmeister]

It's been disappointing. With that, he took some nice strides in Rochester last year and from what I've heard, he has used this time off productively. We'll see

unless there is reason to think a guy is a real SOB piece of turd, generically speaking, always hoping for players, like everyone else, to realize one's potential.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[bernmeister]

Or maybe I've watched him play in the SHL and maybe you've stopped caring after he left your team.

That would explain your lack of knowledge of his game.

Most of the Ranger base heard of his SHL resurrection and were nonetheless thrilled to see this ingrate gone.

That aside, as to his game and potential, and our knowledge thereof, I am quite confident Lias will not come close to Kerr territory.
Are you disputing that?
I dare you to disagree.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

He just turned 22 today. Comes back to a familiar theme with bad teams who end up putting players into the NHL early. 30 points in 34 games with U Minn. good numbers but not insane. Was he really ready to make the jump or was a sophomore year better for him?

with Stall on board and Cozens coming up they can afford to shift him to the wing. They still need a C who can be a checking and PK guy but can find that via free agency or something.

That’s probably where he is best suited. Some C prospects just end up on the wing in the pros. Just a better fit for them.

Yeah, it's all about the Sabres that he hasn't developed. It's not about him developing his skills, putting on body mass. Let's see him take the game seriously.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Totally agree. Casey needs to change how he contributes to his team’s winning. He’s not going to be an offensive player, but he could develop himself into a defensive minded guy, who has good skills. It’s whether or not he has the character to make such changes, and play a game that is hard to play against.

All day long. There are like 600-plus players in the world good enough for the NHL. It's freaking hard. Imagine trying to be elite within that small sample. To be a Jack Eichel requires so many things. They start as kids, every edge counts. Talent isn't enough anymore. Even if you have extreme talent, you don't last without work. (Hate to mention his name, but Ryan O'Reilly was a guy working all the time. Every minute. Every game.) By 24, the hockey world will start thinking of writing you off. Look at Reinhart's brother. A 4th overall. He's almost done. He's 26.

 

[VaporTrail]

I think good value would be another prospect who has yet to blossom and needs a change of scenery

All day long. There are like 600-plus players in the world good enough for the NHL. It's freaking hard. Imagine trying to be elite within that small sample. To be a Jack Eichel requires so many things. They start as kids, every edge counts. Talent isn't enough anymore. Even if you have extreme talent, you don't last without work. (Hate to mention his name, but Ryan O'Reilly was a guy working all the time. Every minute. Every game.) By 24, the hockey world will start thinking of writing you off. Look at Reinhart's brother. A 4th overall. He's almost done. He's 26.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Most of the Ranger base heard of his SHL resurrection and were nonetheless thrilled to see this ingrate gone.

That aside, as to his game and potential, and our knowledge thereof, I am quite confident Lias will not come close to Kerr territory.
Are you disputing that?
I dare you to disagree.

1) "Ingrate" lol
2) Nice strawman argument. I never mentioned Tim Kerr, you did so I don't need to dispute an argument I never made
3) I get it. Your feelings are hurt. I hope you'll be ok.

 

[bernmeister]

1) "Ingrate" lol
2) Nice strawman argument. I never mentioned Tim Kerr, you did so I don't need to dispute an argument I never made
3) I get it. Your feelings are hurt. I hope you'll be ok.

By all means, dig yourself deeper in respect hole; you can't possibly win here.

1. No LOL on "ingrate", that's what he was if not still is. Who TF did he think he was, having gotten mins he did not deserve with some of our best Fs during training camp and then when he could not win the job on merit, was unwilling to go to the A, eventually bolting NYR?
As I said then and repeat now, if anyone knows him, tell him for me, that I said, don't let the door hit your sorry ass on the way out.

2. No Strawman. Your attempt to misdirect is continued epic fail.
YOU brought up his value in context of this said by YOU:
the ability to play in front of the net and score garbage goals is "nothing else".

YOU now own that phrase. Your inference connotes a perception this guy is so good at that aspect of his game, it justifies any other shortcomings.
Nope.
You may choose to address it or not, but Kerr is on standard of excellence in that area; Lias is not now and I daresay will never be.

3) "I get it. Your feelings are hurt. I hope you'll be ok."
No hard feelings.
You are one of a handful of posters who would disagree with me if I said water was wet.

Hey.
Karma
deal w/it.

 

[Fatass]

All day long. There are like 600-plus players in the world good enough for the NHL. It's freaking hard. Imagine trying to be elite within that small sample. To be a Jack Eichel requires so many things. They start as kids, every edge counts. Talent isn't enough anymore. Even if you have extreme talent, you don't last without work. (Hate to mention his name, but Ryan O'Reilly was a guy working all the time. Every minute. Every game.) By 24, the hockey world will start thinking of writing you off. Look at Reinhart's brother. A 4th overall. He's almost done. He's 26.

What I like about Casey is his combination of a fairly heavy frame (200 pounds) and excellent puck skills. He’s just not gifted enough to be only an offensive guy. He needs to be a 200 foot player. With his skills and size though, he could be a very good bottom six guy. Will he play a hard game though? If he will, then he could have a long career.

 

[Zach716]

What I like about Casey is his combination of a fairly heavy frame (200 pounds) and excellent puck skills. He’s just not gifted enough to be only an offensive guy. He needs to be a 200 foot player. With his skills and size though, he could be a very good bottom six guy. Will he play a hard game though? If he will, then he could have a long career.

Mitts will not be a bottom-6 player in this league. It's gotta be top 6 or bust.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

What I like about Casey is his combination of a fairly heavy frame (200 pounds) and excellent puck skills. He’s just not gifted enough to be only an offensive guy. He needs to be a 200 foot player. With his skills and size though, he could be a very good bottom six guy. Will he play a hard game though? If he will, then he could have a long career.

He sure doesn't play like a heavy player. His puck protection has always been average. Sometimes you get better at that sometimes you don't. The difference between the NHL and AHL is literally the time to execute. It disappears. Ability to hold or conversely steal is everything -- short of a golden shot which can gloss over lots.

 

[Fatass]

Mitts will not be a bottom-6 player in this league. It's gotta be top 6 or bust.

Why? Does he lack the character to make such a change? I could understand it being difficult if he was small, but he’s 200 plus.

 

[explore]

Why? Does he lack the character to make such a change? I could understand it being difficult if he was small, but he’s 200 plus.

Bottom-six players are gritty by definition, they're used on the penalty kill and to shut down opposing lines with strong defensive and often physical play. Casey Mittelstadt has never been that kind of player.

If Casey Mittelstadt evolves into that type of player, it would be a welcome addition, but that's just not his skillset.

The second best thing to ever happen to Mittelstadt (after getting to the NHL) is being sent down to Rochester and getting first-line ice time, powerplay and penalty kill time. He still hasn't shown he can dominate at the AHL level, and until he does, he should stay down there and continue to develop.

He may never live up to his talent, but he has a far better chance of that happening developing in the AHL where his mistakes can be tolerated, than in the NHL where wins and losses matter a great deal.

 

[BKarchitect]

There's a few ways to look at his case and the case of several other prominent players from that draft:

1) They actually are highly flawed players who are missing a critical component of play that would have blunted their NHL potential no matter what their path was. It happens.

2) They actually would have benefitted from additional time in college, juniors or the AHL. The rush to the NHL has stunted their development in a way that may never be recouped...or a change of scenery or additional time in the minors may still have a positive impact. No way to know for sure.

3) If they had still just been developing in the minors - they might still have perceived value regardless of whether it would have helped them ultimately. This is the ironic thing to me. Guys like Mitts, Nylander and Jost are widely seen as busts and yet from the same draft, there are a multitude of high picks who have yet to even become NHL players who are seen as valuable "prospects". They may or may not end up better but for one set of guys - "they are what they are" and yet for the other set it's "well, they are young and have all this promise". It's funny how we as fans treat the perception of prospects, potential and value.

 

[Dr Quincy]

By all means, dig yourself deeper in respect hole; you can't possibly win here.

1. No LOL on "ingrate", that's what he was if not still is. Who TF did he think he was, having gotten mins he did not deserve with some of our best Fs during training camp and then when he could not win the job on merit, was unwilling to go to the A, eventually bolting NYR?
As I said then and repeat now, if anyone knows him, tell him for me, that I said, don't let the door hit your sorry ass on the way out.

I'm sure he'll spend .0000000000000000001 second considering your opinion on his ass. He might find some of your trade ideas interesting though.

2. No Strawman. Your attempt to misdirect is continued epic fail.
YOU brought up his value in context of this said by YOU:
the ability to play in front of the net and score garbage goals is "nothing else".

YOU now own that phrase. Your inference connotes a perception this guy is so good at that aspect of his game, it justifies any other shortcomings.
Nope.
You may choose to address it or not, but Kerr is on standard of excellence in that area; Lias is not now and I daresay will never be.

A but it is a strawman. One can say that an athlete has major league level skill in one area and not be the standard of excellence in one area. Bernmeister is now saying that Nils Lundqvist has no skating skills because he isn't as good a skater as Scott Niedermeier. I mean..... that's the level of your ridiculous strawman argument.

3) "I get it. Your feelings are hurt. I hope you'll be ok."
No hard feelings.
You are one of a handful of posters who would disagree with me if I said water was wet.

Hey.
Karma
deal w/it.

It would definitely make me consult a molecular chemist just to be sure.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Bottom-six players are gritty by definition, they're used on the penalty kill and to shut down opposing lines with strong defensive and often physical play. Casey Mittelstadt has never been that kind of player.

In Sega NHL 94 sure. But no, they aren't "by definition" gritty or used on the PK or shutdown opposing lines. Some teams use 1st line players on the PK (see Boston). Alex Galchenyuk got 1:30 min a game on PITTs PP last year.

Some teams roll 3 scoring lines. Some teams don't. There's no reason why you can't have an offensive first kind of F on a 3rd line, just like some teams will put a more defensively inclined F on one of their top 2 lines.

 

[explore]

In Sega NHL 94 sure. But no, they aren't "by definition" gritty or used on the PK or shutdown opposing lines. Some teams use 1st line players on the PK (see Boston). Alex Galchenyuk got 1:30 min a game on PITTs PP last year.

Some teams roll 3 scoring lines. Some teams don't. There's no reason why you can't have an offensive first kind of F on a 3rd line, just like some teams will put a more defensively inclined F on one of their top 2 lines.

You missed the context of the poster I was replying to, he was asking if it was unrealistic for Mittelstadt to become the type of bottom-six player I was describing.

Yes teams put offensive forwards on the third line (more so than the fourth), and they also put defensive forwards on top-six lines, but by and large the third line has generally been referred to as the "checking line" for a reason.

 

[Dr Quincy]

You missed the context of the poster I was replying to, he was asking if it was unrealistic for Mittelstadt to become the type of bottom-six player I was describing.

Yes teams put offensive forwards on the third line (more so than the fourth), and they also put defensive forwards on top-six lines, but by and large the third line has generally been referred to as the "checking line" for a reason.

The phrase "middle 6" has come into style over the last 10-15 years because teams are thinking less of having 2 unskilled lines and instead, having 2 lines without elite talent but still some scoring ability.