Raptors Discussion: v52 | Yep...

[DD03]

I'd love Thompson, but he's an RFA.. He'd be awesome because I find him to be a more athletic Amir, minus the shot (please don't shoot it Amir). But Thompson is a good athletic 4, although not so sure how he is at protecting the rim.

From what I took from the Masai presser, Raps are going to be looking to the ball to JV more next season and see where he goes from here. I expect to see a completely different team next year in terms of play style.

 

[Joey24]

I'd love Thompson, but he's an RFA.. He'd be awesome because I find him to be a more athletic Amir, minus the shot (please don't shoot it Amir). But Thompson is a good athletic 4, although not so sure how he is at protecting the rim.

From what I took from the Masai presser, Raps are going to be looking to the ball to JV more next season and see where he goes from here. I expect to see a completely different team next year in terms of play style.

It's all up to Casey tho not masi how the team is run on the court. Dc loves going small, he really only runs plays for his guards so it's gonna be interesting to ser if things change.

As for rim protection he's pretty good, not elite but blocks with authority that's for sure. He's a rebounding machine tho....

I think if they keep love (the cavs) toronto has a real good shot at swooping him up. The thing is toronto needs a guy like millsap more imo someone who stretches the floor is a good rebounder and just does everything well.

Harris at sf would also give the raps a huge boost does everything well and could slip out of Orlando and into the raptors laps.

Lou shouldn't be brought back imo. Sure he's got the six man award but he's so one dimensional and it's hard seeing him stall the offense when he tries to play hero ball.

I feel like there were some raptors who felt the same way about Lou.

Thompson or millsap, and Harris added to the starting core would be gold. Finding a scoring threat off the bench to replace Lou may be hard but not impossible need to find a backup big also.... gonna be a good but long summer. ...

 

[Radiohead]

So Chicago won 120-66 tonight...

 

[likeabosski]

Lou shouldn't be brought back imo. Sure he's got the six man award but he's so one dimensional and it's hard seeing him stall the offense when he tries to play hero ball.

I feel like there were some raptors who felt the same way about Lou.

Lou is a solid player. You can't criticize him that harshly over his performance in a 4 game sample size. He's suspect defensively and Toronto's defense is a lot worse than their offense. And he's probably going to ask for a big raise. With Lou's $5.4 million or whatever it is off the books, the Raptors could get a defensive upgrade and balance out the roster more.

 

[Shimso]

So Chicago won 120-66 tonight...

I don't remember a playoff game being that lopsided before.


Credit where credit is due, at least the Bucks won 2 games without HCA....

 

[KapG]

Lou is a solid player. You can't criticize him that harshly over his performance in a 4 game sample size. He's suspect defensively and Toronto's defense is a lot worse than their offense. And he's probably going to ask for a big raise. With Lou's $5.4 million or whatever it is off the books, the Raptors could get a defensive upgrade and balance out the roster more.

Lou is not a solid player. He's a good scorer who constantly slows down and stiffles the teams offense with his constant need to have the ball in ISO situations. I'll be very, very happy when he is gone. Guys a chucker who had free reign to chuck all year.

 

[likeabosski]

Lou is not a solid player. He's a good scorer who constantly slows down and stiffles the teams offense with his constant need to have the ball in ISO situations. I'll be very, very happy when he is gone. Guys a chucker who had free reign to chuck all year.

He's a chucker?
Lou Williams eFG% .486
DeMar DeRozan eFG% .426

If you want to factor in the ability to win free throws (DeMar's FTr - Free Throw Ratio. Which is a FTA to FGA ratio, is slightly better than Lou's) and make free throws (Lou is better)..

Lou Williams TS% .564
DeMar DeRozan TS% .510

I rest my case

People see what they want to see I guess. Let's totally forget that a 82 game season just happened and lets focus on a sample size of 4 games I guess. Don't let mathematical truths get in the way I guess.

Compared to other shooting guards in the NBA, Lou's eFG% is too low for my liking but Lou makes up for it by winning and making free throws. Among the top 30 shooting guards in MP in the NBA, Lou is ranked 22nd/30 in eFG% and DeMar 30th/30 (lol). Below Dion Waiters. "Rookie of the Year" Toronto Golden Boy Andrew Wiggins is 27th/30.

DeMar is ranked 4th/30 in FTr and Lou Williams 5th/30. And from the free throw line, Lou ranks 7th/30 and DeMar 12th/30. This ranks Lou at 9th/30 in TS% and DeMar 25th/30.

Most of Lou's shooting value comes from winning free-throws and making free-throws. I agree though that Lou should make more intelligent decisions with his shot selection. DeMar even more so. DeMar averages 17 FGA/36 min and Lou 16.6 FGA/36. That's 5th/30 and 6th/30 respectively. These guys need to chill. And pass the ball to the bigs once in awhile. Every Raptor who plays regular minutes with an above team average eFG% is either a power-forward or a center. That should tell you something. Raptors are too guard-centric.

Yeah I understand that shooting guards, small forwards and to a lesser extent point guards tend to take lower percentage shots. But the game is changing. Kyle Korver attempts only 8.9 FG/36 but his eFG% is .671. The modern shooting guard is moving towards a "3 and D" role. NBA teams are focusing more on analytics and looking more closely at things like eFG% and TS% in conjunction with FGA/36 and FTA/36 (having a high shooting % does you no good if you barely shoot) instead of just PPG. Shot volume matters too of course. You need to be able to strike a healthy balance between shot volume and shot quality.

 

[Swervin81]

Wow... just wow. Exposes Casey for the complete idiot he is.

 

[KapG]

He's a chucker?
Lou Williams eFG% .486
DeMar DeRozan eFG% .426

If you want to factor in the ability to win free throws (DeMar's FTr - Free Throw Ratio. Which is a FTA to FGA ratio, is slightly better than Lou's) and make free throws (Lou is better)..

Lou Williams TS% .564
DeMar DeRozan TS% .510

I rest my case

People see what they want to see I guess. Let's totally forget that a 82 game season just happened and lets focus on a sample size of 4 games I guess. Don't let mathematical truths get in the way I guess.

Compared to other shooting guards in the NBA, Lou's eFG% is too low for my liking but Lou makes up for it by winning and making free throws. Among the top 30 shooting guards in MP in the NBA, Lou is ranked 22nd/30 in eFG% and DeMar 30th/30 (lol). Below Dion Waiters. "Rookie of the Year" Toronto Golden Boy Andrew Wiggins is 27th/30.

DeMar is ranked 4th/30 in FTr and Lou Williams 5th/30. And from the free throw line, Lou ranks 7th/30 and DeMar 12th/30. This ranks Lou at 9th/30 in TS% and DeMar 25th/30.

Most of Lou's shooting value comes from winning free-throws and making free-throws. I agree though that Lou should make more intelligent decisions with his shot selection. DeMar even more so. DeMar averages 17 FGA/36 min and Lou 16.6 FGA/36. That's 5th/30 and 6th/30 respectively. These guys need to chill. And pass the ball to the bigs once in awhile. Every Raptor who plays regular minutes with an above team average eFG% is either a power-forward or a center. That should tell you something. Raptors are too guard-centric.

Yeah I understand that shooting guards, small forwards and to a lesser extent point guards tend to take lower percentage shots. But the game is changing. Kyle Korver attempts only 8.9 FG/36 but his eFG% is .671. The modern shooting guard is moving towards a "3 and D" role. NBA teams are focusing more on analytics and looking more closely at things like eFG% and TS% in conjunction with FGA/36 and FTA/36 (having a high shooting % does you no good if you barely shoot) instead of just PPG. Shot volume matters too of course. You need to be able to strike a healthy balance between shot volume and shot quality.

Hmmm, his fg% is higher than I thought it would be but that doesn't change my opinion of him as a player.

We will be a better overall team once we get rid of him I think.

 

[likeabosski]

Wow... just wow. Exposes Casey for the complete idiot he is.

That is the most rational, well-argued case I've ever seen for firing Casey.

You know what the deal is? NBA coaches often times have this erroneous perception that bench players are not as effective in the playoffs as they are in the grueling 82 game schedule of the regular season. This is why bench players often tend to sit more in favor of the established starters in the playoffs.

The exception though is with rookies. Often times a NBA coach will reduce a rookie's minutes in the playoffs as they feel an experienced hand off the bench would be more suited for playoff basketball.

Look at the MP stats from the regular season compared to the playoffs to see how underutilized Toronto's bench was.

James Johnson really got screwed. He went from clocking 34.5% of the minutes during the regular season to only 6.1% in the playoffs. Patrick Patterson (-0.5%) and Tyler Hansbrough (-2.3%) also saw their roles reduced.

The dip in minutes played for Patrick Patterson and Tyler Hansbrough may seem minor. But Keep in mind that the 4 Raptors who didn't even play in the playoffs (Chuck Hayes, Landry Fields, Bruno Caboclo and Lucas Nogueira) made up for 13% of the minutes in the regular season as well. With these 4 not playing, guys like Patrick Patterson, Tyler Hansbrough and especially James Johnson should be playing more.

Note: Some of Toronto's starters were injured during the regular season. This is why DeMar, who averages 72.3% of the minutes in the regular season games he plays in, drops all the way down to 52.9% of total regular season minutes for the Raptors. But still, the point stands that DeMar participated in only 52.9% of the regular season but in 80.6% of the playoffs. That's the most important thing to compare because we want to see where Toronto went wrong in the playoffs vs. the entirety of the regular season.

Playoffs Minutes Share

Minutes Share is Player MP/Team MP. I made up this statistic on the spot. I don't know if it's been used elsewhere.

Starters
1. SG DeMar DeRozan 80.6% (+27.7% over season)
2. PG Kyle Lowry 66.4% (+5.6%)
3. PF Amir Johnson 56.8% (+7%)
4. SF Terrence Ross 54.3% (+1.6%)
5. C Jonas Valanciunas 53.8% (+1%)

Bench
6. PF Patrick Patterson (co-sixth man) 53.8% (-0.5%)
7. SG Lou Williams (co-sixth man) 51.7% (+1%)
8. PG Greivis Vasquez 51.2% (+1.1%)
9. PF Tyler Hansbrough 24.3% (-2.3%)
10. PF James Johnson 6.1% (-28.4%)
11. C Greg Stiemsma 1.0% (-0.6%)

Regular Season Minutes Share

1. PG Kyle Lowry (starter) 60.8%
2. PF Patrick Patterson (co-sixth man) 54.3%
3. SG DeMar DeRozan (starter) 52.9%
4. C Jonas Valanciunas (starter) 52.8%
5. SF Terrence Ross (starter) 52.7%
6. SG Lou Williams (co-sixth man) 50.8%
7. PG Greivis Vasquez (injury fill-in) 50.1%
8. PF Amir Johnson (starter) 49.8%
9. PF James Johnson 34.5%
10. PF Tyler Hansbrough 26.6%
11. C Chuck Hayes 6.4%
12. SF Landry Fields 5.4%
13. C Greg Stiemsma 1.7%
14. SF Bruno Caboclo 0.6%
15. C Lucas Nogueira 0.6%

 

[Joey24]

Lou is a solid player. You can't criticize him that harshly over his performance in a 4 game sample size. He's suspect defensively and Toronto's defense is a lot worse than their offense. And he's probably going to ask for a big raise. With Lou's $5.4 million or whatever it is off the books, the Raptors could get a defensive upgrade and balance out the roster more.

Lol I am not basing anything off a 4game series. He's one of those players that gets his points but really does little else. He doesn't try at the defensive side of the floor and is a me first type player. He can score sure but does absolutely nothing else at a level his next contract will.

Having an inoffensive. Presence off the bench is great but if shut down offensively or off offensively he's kinda useless.

 

[Joey24]

Lol I am not basing anything off a 4game series. He's one of those players that gets his points but really does little else. He doesn't try at the defensive side of the floor and is a me first type player. He can score sure but does absolutely nothing else at a level his next contract will.

Having an inoffensive. Presence off the bench is great but if shut down offensively or off offensively he's kinda useless.

You bring up offensive stats looking. May be a better shooter then DD, but he defiantly doesn't bring the same impact to the team. That's kinda silly actually.

 

[Suntouchable13]

What's with all of the blowouts in elimination games? Brooklyn is getting destroyed. The Bucks got absolutely mauled by the Bulls. The Raptors got killed. What gives?

 

[McDeepika]

It's all up to Casey tho not masi how the team is run on the court. Dc loves going small, he really only runs plays for his guards so it's gonna be interesting to ser if things change.

As for rim protection he's pretty good, not elite but blocks with authority that's for sure. He's a rebounding machine tho....

I think if they keep love (the cavs) toronto has a real good shot at swooping him up. The thing is toronto needs a guy like millsap more imo someone who stretches the floor is a good rebounder and just does everything well.

Harris at sf would also give the raps a huge boost does everything well and could slip out of Orlando and into the raptors laps.

Lou shouldn't be brought back imo. Sure he's got the six man award but he's so one dimensional and it's hard seeing him stall the offense when he tries to play hero ball.

I feel like there were some raptors who felt the same way about Lou.

Thompson or millsap, and Harris added to the starting core would be gold. Finding a scoring threat off the bench to replace Lou may be hard but not impossible need to find a backup big also.... gonna be a good but long summer. ...

Harris and Millsap would be great. I like the way both play. How is Harris defensively?

 

[likeabosski]

You bring up offensive stats looking. May be a better shooter then DD, but he defiantly doesn't bring the same impact to the team. That's kinda silly actually.

DeRozan has a larger role on the team. And a starter. Averaging 35 MPG vs. Lou's 25.2. But every time you shoot the ball, miss and the team doesn't get an offensive rebound, you just wasted possession. And DeMar has done that a lot with his poor efficiency. Clocking 35 MPG isn't a positive if you are squandering possession.

I'm not opposed to letting Lou go to balance out the roster. Too much offense. Not enough defense. If we can pick up a good 6th man 3 and D SG to replace Lou, that would be great. Can we get something like that for $5.4 mil realistically in free agency?

Toronto's big men are better at shooting. But Toronto's offense is so guard-centric. If you're going to have the guards run the show, they better be efficient. Else, they should pass the ball to the bigs more. And get a competent small forward. Terrence Ross probably doesn't have "it". He's had 3 pro seasons to hone his craft. When his entry level contract expires next year, we have to trade him. If we done trade him this summer or before the deadline next season.

 

[Joey24]

DeRozan has a larger role on the team. And a starter. Averaging 35 MPG vs. Lou's 25.2. But every time you shoot the ball, miss and the team doesn't get an offensive rebound, you just wasted possession. And DeMar has done that a lot with his poor efficiency. Clocking 35 MPG isn't a positive if you are squandering possession.

I'm not opposed to letting Lou go to balance out the roster. Too much offense. Not enough defense. If we can pick up a good 6th man 3 and D SG to replace Lou, that would be great. Can we get something like that for $5.4 mil realistically in free agency?

Toronto's big men are better at shooting. But Toronto's offense is so guard-centric. If you're going to have the guards run the show, they better be efficient. Else, they should pass the ball to the bigs more. And get a competent small forward. Terrence Ross probably doesn't have "it". He's had 3 pro seasons to hone his craft. When his entry level contract expires next year, we have to trade him. If we done trade him this summer or before the deadline next season.

No u cant get that for 5.4. But can u bring back williams at anything close to 5.4? That is my point you use the cap of the departing contracts to bring strenght to your starting rotation. Bringing in a legit sf and pf is what will make toeonto contenders. Not bringing back lou for double or more his current contract.

 

[Quares27]

Ya if Casey isn't gone nothing will change. There's no excuse for offense like that where the guards take turns chucking and everyone else stands around. Ujiri has to do the right thing and get rid of him.

So IIRC Fields is around 5m off the cap, Hayes is like 6m, Hansbrough is like 4m, Lou is like 5m and Amir is like 7m. So what players are out there that would help? this team definitely need a legit starting 4 and probably an upgrade on Ross as well which could drop Ross to the bench in place of Lou. I would keep Hansbrough if he's coming back for cheap

 

[likeabosski]

No u cant get that for 5.4. But can u bring back williams at anything close to 5.4? That is my point you use the cap of the departing contracts to bring strenght to your starting rotation. Bringing in a legit sf and pf is what will make toeonto contenders. Not bringing back lou for double or more his current contract.

The team's "balance" is very poor. The Raptors need to spread out their roster better.

This is the team's MP share by main position (ie. DeMar's "main" position is SG even though he can play as SG/SF. So I've put his minutes under SG)

PF: 33.1% (6563 mins, 4 players)
PG: 22.2% (4405 mins, 2 players)
SG: 20.7% (4116 mins, 2 players)
C: 12.3% (2440 mins, 4 players)
SF: 11.7% (2331 mins, 3 players)

I find it amusing how the Raptors have 4 centers (primary position) and they resort to using Power Forwards to backup JV. Unbelievable.

Also find it amusing how the Raptors have 3 small forwards (primary) and they have to rely on better players to play out of their preferred position (like DeMar or the more skilled PFs) because Landry Fields and Bruno Caboclo (prospect learning the ropes) barely played.

And this is their MPG share (I still think it's important to look at MP share too because injuries and DNPs are part of the game).

PF: 30.5% (86.9 MPG, 4 players)(-2.6% compared to MP Share)
SG: 21.1% (60.2 MPG, 2 players)(+0.4% compared to MP Share)
PG: 20.6% (58.7 MPG, 2 players)(-1.6% compared to MP Share)
C: 15.0% (42.7 MPG, 4 players)(+2.7% compared to MP Share)
SF: 12.9% (36.7 MPG, 3 players)(+1.1% compared to MP Share)

The MP vs MPG Share comparison illustrates how poor the depth at C, SF and to a lesser extent SG is. When DeMar goes down, Lou is the only primary SG left and Vasquez is a secondary SG. But also has PG duty as well. Terrence Ross can also play SG but SF depth is poor. The roster is prone to being stretched thin. There should be at least one dedicated player for each position on the bench. A guy who normally plays C, a guy who normally plays PF, a guy who normally plays PG, a guy who normally plays SG and a guy who normally plays SF (or second, reasonably tall SG who can play SF).

So yeah it's definitely important for the team to get a SG too with Lou gone. In addition to a SF and C. And a starting PF to replace Amir.

 

[Swervin81]

So Woj was on TSN 1050 today and said that Casey will likely be back as head coach.

 

[Joey24]

The team's "balance" is very poor. The Raptors need to spread out their roster better.

This is the team's MP share by main position (ie. DeMar's "main" position is SG even though he can play as SG/SF. So I've put his minutes under SG)

PF: 33.1% (6563 mins, 4 players)
PG: 22.2% (4405 mins, 2 players)
SG: 20.7% (4116 mins, 2 players)
C: 12.3% (2440 mins, 4 players)
SF: 11.7% (2331 mins, 3 players)

I find it amusing how the Raptors have 4 centers (primary position) and they resort to using Power Forwards to backup JV. Unbelievable.

Also find it amusing how the Raptors have 3 small forwards (primary) and they have to rely on better players to play out of their preferred position (like DeMar or the more skilled PFs) because Landry Fields and Bruno Caboclo (prospect learning the ropes) barely played.

And this is their MPG share (I still think it's important to look at MP share too because injuries and DNPs are part of the game).

PF: 30.5% (86.9 MPG, 4 players)(-2.6% compared to MP Share)
SG: 21.1% (60.2 MPG, 2 players)(+0.4% compared to MP Share)
PG: 20.6% (58.7 MPG, 2 players)(-1.6% compared to MP Share)
C: 15.0% (42.7 MPG, 4 players)(+2.7% compared to MP Share)
SF: 12.9% (36.7 MPG, 3 players)(+1.1% compared to MP Share)

The MP vs MPG Share comparison illustrates how poor the depth at C, SF and to a lesser extent SG is. When DeMar goes down, Lou is the only primary SG left and Vasquez is a secondary SG. But also has PG duty as well. Terrence Ross can also play SG but SF depth is poor. The roster is prone to being stretched thin. There should be at least one dedicated player for each position on the bench. A guy who normally plays C, a guy who normally plays PF, a guy who normally plays PG, a guy who normally plays SG and a guy who normally plays SF (or second, reasonably tall SG who can play SF).

So yeah it's definitely important for the team to get a SG too with Lou gone. In addition to a SF and C. And a starting PF to replace Amir.

Well i tend to agree with what u say. Bringing in legit players like a milsap and harris for example gives toronto the balance in scoring they would need when demar or kyle are not on the floor or perhaps hurt.

Having two solid scoring guards and a do everything well sf to go along with two solid bigs gives toronto so many options to score.

Its not like your whole starting group comes off at once so you should always have 2 to 3 options on the floor.

And like many said bringing in a legit center to back up jv is a must.
I personally would love to see every expiring toronto contract walk or let go.

Casey has to learn to run plays for his bigs, atm jv. When the guards are being shut doen dc has to reconise he has other options.

The roster should hopefully look like.

C: jv - free agent or trade.
Pf: millsap - patterson
Sf: harris - johnson
Sg: demar - ross or traded player
Pg: kl - gv or traded player.

I would lean for trading ross if the right offer was on the table. Same for gv, hes too streaky bad defense but great team guy so keep or trade doesnt matter.

Casey should be replaced tho, and it doesnt look like he will. Makes me frustrated considering the mistakes. The mismanagement and use of his players etc. Sure they set a record for wins, but two seasons in a row he couldnt coach them past the first round. And that has to lay firmly on the coach.

 

[tokyoite]

Scott Brooks available
Masai please consider.

 

[Swervin81]

Scott Brooks available
Masai please consider.

Brooks is terrible.

 

[KapG]

Wow...Casey is a terrible coach and we are likely going to keep him?

Being a Toronto sports fan is just dreadful!!!!!

Hopefully woj is wrong....

 

[William Hylander]

A good Chant of fire Casey will fix that. That's why Burke fired Wilson, I think if that Chant had not happened he would have been coaching is for the season.

Seriously just Chant fire Casey during the games.

 

[The Nemesis]

Scott Brooks available
Masai please consider.

Scott Brooks is an awful coach.