Raptors Discussion: v32 | The playoff push continues. Trade Deadline on Thursday, Feb 20

[trellaine201]

back to earth Raps, it was a nice run though. I guess we couldn't expect them to keep up that winning pace after the trade.

 

[Eyedea]

back to earth Raps, it was a nice run though. I guess we couldn't expect them to keep up that winning pace after the trade.

Well considering it was (at one point) like the best NBA record since the Rudy Gay trade, yeah I guess you can say they're coming back down to Earth. They're just having a rough go right now, and it's really odd looking at the disadvantage they've had as of late with regards to fouls. Charlotte had 23 more free throw attempts today, LA had 17 more attempts, Boston had 11 more attempts (though Raps were shooting a putrid 48% at the line that game), and against Miami they had 6 less attempts but Miami secured 11 more points at the line. Whether it's the lack of free throw attempts in some games or the amount of misses at the line, they always seem to have a problem in this aspect of the game when it comes to losses.

Just judging by the stats of today's game it looks like the Raps should have won it. There's no reason to lose a game when you get +15 offensive rebounds (+11 altogether) and attempt 30 more shots.

 

[Radiohead]

Brooklyn and Washington both win today as well. Washington are now tied with Toronto for 4th in the East. Brooklyn is slowly climbing and are 2.5 games back of Toronto. Even Charlotte moves to within 3.5 of us.

It would be funny if the Raps finish 9th this year.

 

[Radiohead]

Well considering it was (at one point) like the best NBA record since the Rudy Gay trade, yeah I guess you can say they're coming back down to Earth. They're just having a rough go right now, and it's really odd looking at the disadvantage they've had as of late with regards to fouls. Charlotte had 23 more free throw attempts today, LA had 17 more attempts, Boston had 11 more attempts (though Raps were shooting a putrid 48% at the line that game), and against Miami they had 6 less attempts but Miami secured 11 more points at the line. Whether it's the lack of free throw attempts in some games or the amount of misses at the line, they always seem to have a problem in this aspect of the game when it comes to losses.

Just judging by the stats of today's game it looks like the Raps should have won it. There's no reason to lose a game when you get +15 offensive rebounds (+11 altogether) and attempt 30 more shots.

They're not getting free throw attempts because they're chucking threes all the time.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

We show a ton of heart and we haven't been blown out. Calm down! I am still optimistic. They're on a mini losing streak but they're fighting. Still a ton of games left...

 

[Eyedea]

They're not getting free throw attempts because they're chucking threes all the time.

That didn't stop LA when they faced them

 

[Kb21]

this team needs to give val more touches. i don't want him to become another bogut, and bogut had an excellent post game until he destroyed one of his arms.

 

[Eytinge]

this team needs to give val more touches. i don't want him to become another bogut, and bogut had an excellent post game until he destroyed one of his arms.

I'd take a prime bogut outta JVal. He was maybe the 2nd best center in the NBA (was no doubt the second best defensive center) a few years with the Bucks. That elbow injury ruined his offensive game though.

Raps had a chance to really take advantage of a weak schedule with Bos/MIL/LA and the bobcats. Going 1-3 isn't good with Brooklyn looking good now and DWill coming back. If we are making the playoffs this year, we need the 3rd/4th/5th seed. Avoid Miami and Indiana at all costs.

 

[Longshot]

I see Vince Carter is in town tomorrow night.

Anybody have any feelings on the former Raptor?

I noticed in the media this week there seems to be a push to rehabilitate Carter's image with the fans. There are even suggestions he should be welcomed back into the organization for his retirement (like the Jays did with Roy Halladay) in order to set the eventual stage for the retirement of Carter's number, which I think is ridiculous. Carter was a very good player in Toronto, but he wasn't here long enough to warrant a his number being retired and the team won only one playoff series during his tenure.

My feelings about Carter long ago turned to complete indifference. To me, he was just another spoiled athlete that quit on a city/franchise when the going got tough. Such actions are pretty common in the world of professional sports.

Looking back on it, to me, it seems like his decision to bolt Toronto hurt him just as much as it hurt the Toronto franchise. In Toronto he was an icon, a franchise player with a following across an entire country. Once he left - he became just another guy. Teams he played on didn't really accomplish anything and he pretty much quickly faded from view as new stars took over the league.

In hindsight, I can't help but wonder what would have happened if Carter had of shown just a little bit of patience and foresight. He left right after the Raptors drafted Chris Bosh. Imagine if Carter had of stayed with the program and allowed Bosh to develop into the player he became. Could the course of the franchise have changed? Who knows, but it's fun to wonder.

 

[Radiohead]

Anybody have any feelings on the former Raptor?

I noticed in the media this week there seems to be a push to rehabilitate Carter's image with the fans. There are even suggestions he should be welcomed back into the organization for his retirement (like the Jays did with Roy Halladay) in order to set the eventual stage for the retirement of Carter's number, which I think is ridiculous. Carter was a very good player in Toronto, but he wasn't here long enough to warrant a his number being retired and the team won only one playoff series during his tenure.

He may not have been here very long, but his impact cannot be ignored.

My feelings about Carter long ago turned to complete indifference. To me, he was just another spoiled athlete that quit on a city/franchise when the going got tough. Such actions are pretty common in the world of professional sports.

I don't hate the guy, but he really set this franchise back with his antics.

Looking back on it, to me, it seems like his decision to bolt Toronto hurt him just as much as it hurt the Toronto franchise. In Toronto he was an icon, a franchise player with a following across an entire country. Once he left - he became just another guy. Teams he played on didn't really accomplish anything and he pretty much quickly faded from view as new stars took over the league.

He was still a threat during his tenure in Jersey. His career took a dip after being dealt to Orlando. But then again, he was 33 years old.

The Nets' teams he was on could have done a lot of damage if they had a better front court.

In hindsight, I can't help but wonder what would have happened if Carter had of shown just a little bit of patience and foresight. He left right after the Raptors drafted Chris Bosh. Imagine if Carter had of stayed with the program and allowed Bosh to develop into the player he became. Could the course of the franchise have changed? Who knows, but it's fun to wonder.

They could have been a great duo. But it could have been Carter's departure that led to Bosh's development as a star.

 

[Longshot]

He may not have been here very long, but his impact cannot be ignored.

My question is: what was his impact? There was a time - a very, very short time - where Carter was as big as it got not only in the NBA, but in all sports. He was on the verge of being the kind of guy that could be a big star across all the spectrums, but just as quickly - it was all gone.

There's no denying that. I lived it. I remember it. I remember the wave of excitement that swept the city when he announced he would sign a long-term contract. It was a pretty incredible moment. For months and months Raptors fans in Toronto had been conditioned to think: "Vince is leaving as soon as he gets the opportunity, just like McGrady did..." And, all of the sudden - he didn't.

The question I have is: how exactly does the Raptors franchise honour his contribution once his career is over? I don't think the team should ignore how he left (he basically quit on the franchise). I also don't think you can ignore that he wasn't here long enough to be a "retire his number" kind of player.

Carter was a very good player in Toronto for a short period of time and the franchise had a smidgen of success (one playoff series win) during his tenure. He later left under controversial circumstances after multiple injury plagued seasons. Is there really an obligation for the team to give its highest honour (retiring his number) to that player when he retires? Or should they have a nice "Vince Carter" night before a game?

 

[Byron Bitz]

He may not have been here very long, but his impact cannot be ignored.

This, I was a young boy during the vinsanity days and I vividly remember the city falling in love with him. His impact may be the reason we still have a team. When the NBA expanded into Canada everyone was wondering if Vancouver and Toronto could last. Vancouver had some bad luck with the draft lottery and was never able to find that superstar, they drafted steve "the franchise" francis 2nd overall who refused to play for them. We were lucky enough to snag Vince Carter who became one of the best and most exciting players in the league, filled the ACC with raptor fans and led us to a few playoffs and a series victory. Take away VC and we would of had a similar team to our brothers from the west who didn't make it.

 

[Porn*]

when Vince Carter was on the Raptors... healthy, young and interested, he was unstoppable... he was the face of the league both north and south. His actions and behaviors ruined his reputation in Toronto and somewhat around the league. His skills were never questioned, even after his knees started to give out from all of his off the wall dunking. As a Raptors fan, I hold no animosity towards his decisions as they were ultimately for what he thought was right for his career and life. He put Toronto on the map... and we're now seeing guys like T.Ross who state that they loved watching the Raptors because of he and T-Mac.

should his jersey be retired? not in my books but he does deserve some credit... i'd retire Stoudamire before Carter personally.

 

[DD03]

Can't blame VC for our GM being a complete moron.

 

[Eyedea]

should his jersey be retired? not in my books but he does deserve some credit... i'd retire Stoudamire before Carter personally.

Stoudamire? The best thing he did for this franchise was bring in Alvin Williams.

 

[The Nemesis]

He obviously had a huge impact on the fortunes of the Raptors and their profile. For the brief, shining period where he was legitimately able to make a case as the biggest draw in the NBA, the Raptors were an interesting, recognizable franchise in the US.

And I'll set aside the downturn and injuries and all that from afterwards because that's nothing to with his Raptors tenure.

For me, the thing that prevents me from warming back up to him is the way he left. I can forgive a guy for wanting out. I can forgive a guy for diminishing impact if it's because of injuries. But the completely dickish way he went about leaving, dogging it and "quitting" and the whole "I don't want to dunk anymore" BS and all of that really is one of those unforgivable sports sins. Obviously you can't always hold Roy Halladay's standard up against everyone else, but he really showed how one should handle a trade request and departure. Vince's petulant, whiny, self-interested sideshow was just about the worst way to deal with it.

 

[RedRenegade]

Well said Nemesis (as always). I loved the all star, slam dunk champ VC and especially that he brought Toronto and the Raptors to new heights in his prime days here. But it was really sad the way he went out and how sour things got. It's hard to get over it, or even look past that stuff.

 

[Joey24]

He may not have been here very long, but his impact cannot be ignored.



I don't hate the guy, but he really set this franchise back with his antics.



He was still a threat during his tenure in Jersey. His career took a dip after being dealt to Orlando. But then again, he was 33 years old.

The Nets' teams he was on could have done a lot of damage if they had a better front court.


They could have been a great duo. But it could have been Carter's departure that led to Bosh's development as a star.

wasn't it Carter who said , there is no way Chris Bosh is going to be an impact player in this league?

 

[Radiohead]

wasn't it Carter who said , there is no way Chris Bosh is going to be an impact player in this league?

I'm not sure. I do remember him criticizing management for drafting Bosh, instead of trading the pick for proven talent.

 

[Radiohead]

Rudy Gay is playing out of his mind right now:

21 PPG, 52.5 FG%, 37.0 3P%, 85.3 FT%, 20.8 PER, 60.8 TS%, 55.8 eFG% in Sacramento.

Must be nice having a player like Cousins taking away all the defensive coverage.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Yeah, his shooting%s have jumped up by about 15% in Sac compared to when he was playing for Toronto. Ridiculous

And he's averaging 1 more assist per game.

 

[Miester]

I'm not sure. I do remember him criticizing management for drafting Bosh, instead of trading the pick for proven talent.

was it Bosh? i remember him criticizing picking Arujo (like everyone else lol) but not Bosh. I could be wrong though

Regardless, I'm over it, I was a long time ago. A 25 (26?) year old NBA star immaturely left a team. It was stupid, it sucked, but its not the first time it happened and it won't be the last. I'd like to think he's older now and knows he messed up. We've booed the guy for years, probably longer than we should have. Does today's generation of fans even know WHY they're booing him? lol. With all the bad, I can't look past the fact that if it wasn't for Vince, we'd be seeing Memphis Raptors games on TV each night. The guy put us on the map. Like Nemesis said, the Raptors were on TV in the states. the US fanbase knew who the Raptors were. When was the last time we got a nationally televised game? Last season against the Hawks because they needed a replacement game quickly for one that got cancelled? lol. Carter did way too much for basketball in Toronto and in Canada for me to continue holding a grudge. **** happened, he was young and dumb. I'm willing to move on. Hopefully eventually we can hang his jersey up there, it'd be nice to see.

 

[Radiohead]

was it Bosh? i remember him criticizing picking Arujo (like everyone else lol) but not Bosh. I could be wrong though

Regardless, I'm over it, I was a long time ago. A 25 (26?) year old NBA star immaturely left a team. It was stupid, it sucked, but its not the first time it happened and it won't be the last. I'd like to think he's older now and knows he messed up. We've booed the guy for years, probably longer than we should have. Does today's generation of fans even know WHY they're booing him? lol. With all the bad, I can't look past the fact that if it wasn't for Vince, we'd be seeing Memphis Raptors games on TV each night. The guy put us on the map. Like Nemesis said, the Raptors were on TV in the states. the US fanbase knew who the Raptors were. When was the last time we got a nationally televised game? Last season against the Hawks because they needed a replacement game quickly for one that got cancelled? lol. Carter did way too much for basketball in Toronto and in Canada for me to continue holding a grudge. **** happened, he was young and dumb. I'm willing to move on. Hopefully eventually we can hang his jersey up there, it'd be nice to see.

He was traded at 28 years old. He came into the league at 22.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

My take on Vince:

Fans are allowed to make their own mind up. If people want to stand and cheer for his contributions to the Raptors - and through them to Canadian basketball - that's perfectly fine. If others want to boo him for the way he left, that's fine too. I don't think either group is wrong. Vince did do a ton for the team, and though we didn't know it at the time for Canadian basketball as well. I don't think either narrative can be exuded, not can one excuse the other. Michael Grange has a piece after the game tonight on the situation and he's firmly of the view it's time to forgive and forget. I get that point of view but don't like the notion of the media, or anyone, telling fans how to react. For a city that sometimes gets criticized for the in-game experience of its sports teams, it seems odd to then take a shot at one of the organic and emotional reactions that has stood the test of time here.

 

[Miester]

He was traded at 28 years old. He came into the league at 22.

Fair enough, my mistake. Regardless, it's been almost ten years. I still think it's time to move on.