Post-Game Talk: Utterly Rittich-ulous Leafs Lose 6-3

[Gabriel426]

Yep spread it out and ride the hot hand. CBJ was not skilled enough to check a 3 line attack, virtually any team can check a one line attack. In some aspects its much easier to play today, less holding, less, interference, less rough stuff. Goalies look like a small house today, would be the biggest difference IMO

I agree with you and that’s what I have been suggesting since the playins. The 10million plus boys need to play on separate lines in order to elevate those 1mil players and spread the offence

 

[All Mod Cons]

Still chuckling at the thesis that at least we got an NHL body in Denis Malgin.

Jebus. And people try to convince others that Dubas has never been averse to physicality. In less than a calendar year, he onboarded Petan and Malgin. Would love to know how those ideas came about.

 

[Gabriel426]

passing up shots from the slot in order to shoot from low danger areas sounds like a great way to kill the offense even more

You do know I was being sarcastic, right

 

[showtime8]

I think the point is, is that BECAUSE Tavares et al are making 11 million, we end up with Simmonds, Thornton, Spezza, Engvall, Robertson on the roster.

There's very little money to pay anyone else. It also makes trading hard. You either have to unload an 11 mil player, or hope someone fancies your mid to late 30s role players. There aren't many players on our roster in that 'sweet zone' cap wise to make trades.

This then leads to draft picks and/or prospects being moved every deadline. It's a bit of a viscous circle.

Right now, the Leafs finally have guys that can put up points and are actually going into the prime of their careers and we get worried about not having enough to pay for another free agent 2 mill or more to a role player.

So if we had that money, who would you have paid that to this past off-season? Taylor Hall? Tyler Toffoli?

 

[bossram]

Generally speaking, though.

Florida is definitely a special case where you can save some coin on wingers by having them ride shotgun with Barkov and the end result won't be all that different.

It's not a special case though. Carolina is running someone known as "Steve Lorentz" on their 4th line. Jesper Fast is a very effective for only ~500k more than Simmonds. Paquette was basically free. Tampa found Patty Maroon for cheap. Tomas Nosek in Vegas is low-key very effective, and although he now has a new contract, Chandler Stephenson is a key player for them and was nearly free. Nic Roy is a castoff that Vegas put to use. Boston runs a low-budget 4th line and Nick Ritchie emerged as a good contributor for them. Washington is using other teams' castoffs like Dowd, Sprong, Sheary, Hathaway to decent effect in depth roles. Jason Spezza is obviously full value for league minimum.

You can find cheap depth players out there. You're not finding another Auston Matthews.

Virtually every contender cheaps out at the bottom of their lineup, because you need to pay your top-end talent. This is how it is in the new cap era.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Those statistics help describe the trends but I think we can debate the merits of “expected goals” forever - the hot goalie thesis is nice and all but when it happens every game there are probably some holes in the unified theory of everything.

Tying it back to the eye test, I would say a lot of their looks have been getting boxed out, inability to move to the puck quick enough to open shooting lanes, generally faced with a lot of collapsing bodies when they get those slot chances.

If there's any area the Leafs struggle to generate, it's clearly off the rush for me. Other than that, it's probably just a matter of the Leafs not having great finishing talent. I don't see the team having any trouble getting chances from dangerous scoring locations off the cycle, but they do struggle to make those chances count

 

[All Mod Cons]

Right now, the Leafs finally have guys that can put up points and are actually going into the prime of their careers and we get worried about not having enough to pay for another free agent 2 mill or more to a role player.

So if we had that money, who would you have paid that to this past off-season? Taylor Hall? Tyler Toffoli?

Why just this offseason? Tavares signed in 2018.

 

[bossram]

We have shit goaltending and most of our losses come in games where we outplay the opponent but just have shit goaltending. I'm most disappointed in Dubas for not addressing it this year, I feel like it's a wasted year for this core with these goalies. I hope campbell can go back to his old form, if not we're in deep shit. Just need average goaltending, not even asking for much lol. Be average and this team has a shot, .839SVP over 5 games isn't gonna cut it.

Well, in the past year he went and added Campbell, Dell, and Rittich in the hopes that one of them could just be average-ish. It didn't work out.

 

[showtime8]

Why just this offseason? Tavares signed in 2018.

Okay, pick an off-season since 2018, where the Leafs missed out on a guy that you wish the Leafs had.

 

[bossram]

It would be nice if Dubas could find a Marchment.

I mentioned Marchment intentionally. A clear example that Dubas actually had the process right, but gave up too early.

And a clear that example that you can easily turn other teams' castoffs into useful depth.

 

[AvroArrow]

Well, in the past year he went and added Campbell, Dell, and Rittich in the hopes that one of them could just be average-ish. It didn't work out.

But they were all added to be depth/back ups, he hasn't made a move for a legitimate or elite starter. I like Campbell, I hope he can get back to his earlier self but the Goaltending has been killing us all year and for most of last year as well.

 

[Cobra777]

I love the hot takes, as if we got dominated and didn't stand a chance last night. Now our team is full of losers and no depth etc.. Our coach literately called out the reason why we lost tonight.

.839 save percentage in the past 6 games.. How do you expect to win any hockey games when you can't get a save.

Leafs have not looked sharp and the puck decisions, PP is abysmal, whiffing on pucks, horrible turn overs and defensive pinches, trouble getting out of our own end when under pressure, most of our D core just playing poorly other than Bogo who is now hurt and theDermott pair, passing plays for scoring opportunities are average at best and look off, too many cute plays and certain guys trying to stickhandle past 2 or three guys coughing up the puck , their whole game yes including goaltending is fractured and looks like a mess. This does not look like a contending team at all top to bottom. Sandin was the only bright light with how he played. Losing 2 games to a whole team that has not played in over a month and was sick is simply inexusable especially with all the high dollar guys we have.

 

[7even]

Jebus. And people try to convince others that Dubas has never been averse to physicality. In less than a calendar year, he onboarded Petan and Malgin. Would love to know how those ideas came about.

He acquired Muzzin and Clifford in the same window as Petan and Malgin.

 

[Zybalto]

On the season, opposing goalies have an 89.65 save% against the Leafs.

It's why when looking at the current 5 game stretch is obviously an outlier and every single team in hockey goes through it. We just have a shortsighted and rather masochistic media and fanbase who cant look at the big picture.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Okay, pick an off-season since 2018, where the Leafs missed out on a guy that you wish the Leafs had.

Anthony Duclair, maybe Lehrner/Talbot.

Would've made some trades as well. Grubauer, Montour (from Buffalo), possibly Neiderreiter. Kept Matt Martin.

Lots of possibilities would be available.

 

[Gallagbi]

I meant during our recent slump. Past 5 games opposing goalies have a near .940 save percentage while playing us. Goalies that average around .900 save percentages otherwise (Hellebuyck excepted). Yet these losses are being blamed on our goaltending. Not our lack of finish.

Because we're a top 5 offensive team on the season with below average goaltending. And the only reason we're "just" below average is because of backup and journeyman 3B have held it together.

When you step back and look at the team, the offense has done it's job minus the PP and that area takes a ton of heat. Overall were scoring about where you'd expect. Our team D has limited chances. Our goaltending has performed well below expectations.

Generally you fault the areas lacking the most

 

[Gallagbi]

Those statistics help describe the trends but I think we can debate the merits of “expected goals” forever - the hot goalie thesis is nice and all but when it happens every game there are probably some holes in the unified theory of everything.

Tying it back to the eye test, I would say a lot of their looks have been getting boxed out, inability to move to the puck quick enough to open shooting lanes, generally faced with a lot of collapsing bodies when they get those slot chances.

I don't think your eye test is valid. I think you're backing into the results you want to see to make your point when the evidence (and I'll say my eye test) disagree with your suggestions.

Even taking advanced stats out of it, we put 3 pucks in the back of the net last night. Do you remember 3 good scoring chances for Vancouver? I come up with the first and fourth goals - which was off a brutal penalty that should have never happened .

 

[hoglund]

I agree with you and that’s what I have been suggesting since the playins. The 10million plus boys need to play on separate lines in order to elevate those 1mil players and spread the offence

Babcock tried this already and everyone screamed to have Mathews and Marner on the same line.

 

[Gallagbi]

On the season, opposing goalies have an 89.65 save% against the Leafs.

It's why when looking at the current 5 game stretch is obviously an outlier and every single team in hockey goes through it. We just have a shortsighted and rather masochistic media and fanbase who cant look at the big picture.

.guilty

 

[Racer88]

Well, in the past year he went and added Campbell, Dell, and Rittich in the hopes that one of them could just be average-ish. It didn't work out.

He chose poorly and not the Leafs are in big trouble for it

 

[Racer88]

On the season, opposing goalies have an 89.65 save% against the Leafs.

It's why when looking at the current 5 game stretch is obviously an outlier and every single team in hockey goes through it. We just have a shortsighted and rather masochistic media and fanbase who cant look at the big picture.

What exactly is the big picture?

 

[Cobra777]

The goaltending was brutal yes but for F sakes this high dollar team should have laid a lambasting on a team that has not played in over a month and was sick, these two games should never even been close, we should have dominated in speed and every other facet, but this team is off top to bottom and struggled to get the puck out of our own zone at times. We look off NOT like a well oiled playoff machine at all and that is on every player and coach. This was a freakin circus top to bottom no exeptions, we struggle to win against every team, Ottawa, Mtl, Canucks, Calgary, we roll over nobody convincingly other than that 3 game series against the oilers which had me in awe as every player fired on all cylinders rendering the Edmonton team looking novice. Most of the season even being in 1st were just eaking out wins against teams that we should steamroll if we are a serious contender like the pundits have predicted. I don't see that at all this is the same team that struggles against any team that cloggs the middle and plays extra physical with us, puts tenacious checking on the puck carrier which sends us in turnover land, poor decisions, and takes our speed and flow away and are caught standing still watching hoping for the goalie to bail us out with a one goal lead.

 

[Stephen]

I don't think your eye test is valid. I think you're backing into the results you want to see to make your point when the evidence (and I'll say my eye test) disagree with your suggestions.

Even taking advanced stats out of it, we put 3 pucks in the back of the net last night. Do you remember 3 good scoring chances for Vancouver? I come up with the first and fourth goals - which was off a brutal penalty that should have never happened .

Meh, I expect that going down the stretch we’ll see a lot of these trends continuing where Toronto will run into inexplicably hot goalies, struggle to generate on the special teams and get beat on goals with in the slot miscues topped off by a sprinkling of off the rush softies. I think we’ve seen these trends emerge at both ends of the ice and I think it’s the F and D group that is the common link.

It looks like it’s boiling down to inexplicably slow starts, playing down to the pacing of the competition, inability to generate offense by taking direct routes to the net and having defensive miscues that spring the opposition for quick counter attack and losing defensive positioning around the crease.

 

[hoglund]

The goaltending was brutal yes but for F sakes this high dollar team should have laid a lambasting on a team that has not played in over a month and was sick, these two games should never even been close, we should have dominated in speed and every other facet, but this team is off top to bottom and struggled to get the puck out of our own zone at times. We look off NOT like a well oiled playoff machine at all and that is on every player and coach. This was a freakin circus top to bottom no exeptions, we struggle to win against every team, Ottawa, Mtl, Canucks, Calgary, we roll over nobody convincingly other than that 3 game series against the oilers which had me in awe as every player fired on all cylinders rendering the Edmonton team looking novice. Most of the season even being in 1st were just eaking out wins against teams that we should steamroll if we are a serious contender like the pundits have predicted. I don't see that at all this is the same team that struggles against any team that cloggs the middle and plays extra physical with us, puts tenacious checking on the puck carrier which sends us in turnover land, poor decisions, and takes our speed and flow away and are caught standing still watching hoping for the goalie to bail us out with a one goal lead.

The Leafs did dominate the 1st game against Vancouver, the only reason that they won was Holtby stood on his head, I'm not sure what happened last night.

 

[bossram]

But they were all added to be depth/back ups, he hasn't made a move for a legitimate or elite starter. I like Campbell, I hope he can get back to his earlier self but the Goaltending has been killing us all year and for most of last year as well.

This is more a criticism of Dubas' roster construction philosophy vs. his actual goaltending acquisitions. There just wasn't the cap space/assets available to acquire a top-end goaltender. There was no way to add a Hellebuyck. Dubas went the only route he left himself with: Stockpile a bunch of goalies and just hope one pans out because goaltending is voodoo (I'd say Campbell was a moderate success).

That is probably the plan next year, as they'll look to add someone like Ullmark, Driedger, Bernier, or Reimer to platoon with Campbell and hope one of them is good.