USHL teams to join OHL?

[Hinterland]

A month ago, Jeff Marek dropped these news.

Today we got a follow up from Elliotte Friedman:

OHL green lights aggressive expansion plan

After a recent vote allowing Canadian Hockey League players to join men’s Division I NCAA hockey starting next season, one of the CHL's leagues is now eyeing expansion.

www.sportsnet.ca

Would certainly be an interesting development.

Click to read more...

 

[jigglysquishy]

Both teams are close enough to other American OHL teams I could see it happening.

Erie has always been a bit lonesome and Youngstown could help double up road trips.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

That would be pretty cool.

 

[JiggsNY]

I do worry for the future of the USHL as a whole. the CHL/NCAA decision was bound to make some winners and some losers, and I worry if the OHL just picks off a few of the more attractive USHL teams, then the rest left behind will suffer.

USHL as a fourth branch of CHL would have been nice to see, but does not seem to be going that way.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don’t buy it.

OHL mouthpieces have been laundering these stories the last two months how they’re about to bulldoze down the USHL, and there’ve been some reports that are already being shot down for their inaccuracy.

They try to make it seem like they’re going to do to the USHL what they did to the junior A leagues. They haven’t taken one player of real note from the USHL.

Apparently the excuse is they claim USHL are holding players hostage, but that doesn’t pass muster because they aren’t holding the not as good players hostage who’ve left. Not like they’re begging to lose their third and fourth liners for no real compensation, but they’ve still let a few of them leave that wanted to.

Not to mention there would be huge logistical challenges and contractual and probably legal challenges with moving from one junior league to another.

I think OHL might try to expand, but I doubt it’s anything near the stories being laundered. I think they’re trying to unsettle USHL players to get them to jump ship.

 

[MeHateHe]

Not to mention there would be huge logistical challenges and contractual and probably legal challenges with moving from one junior league to another.

The Wenatchee Wild say hi

 

[BKarchitect]

The Wenatchee Wild say hi

To be fair, when they were in the BCHL, that league was part of Hockey Canada. So it seems to me like that was much more just promoting a team already under the umbrella.

Raiding the USHL is not the same.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

And the Wenatchee Wild just basically took the name and licensing. That’s clearly not the implication from this. The implication is transplanting a fully USHL team into the CHL.

 

[Kingpin794]

And the Wenatchee Wild just basically took the name and licensing. That’s clearly not the implication from this. The implication is transplanting a fully USHL team into the CHL.

there is no transplanting a USHL into the CHL. The teams would have to go through expansion drafts, priority selections, import drafts and so on. Non of the players would be coming with Muskegon or Youngstown unless they happened to be signed as FA's. The only thing that would come with them would likely be name and arenas.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

there is no transplanting a USHL into the CHL. The teams would have to go through expansion drafts, priority selections, import drafts and so on. Non of the players would be coming with Muskegon or Youngstown unless they happened to be signed as FA's. The only thing that would come with them would likely be name and arenas.

And why would these two franchises go through all of the logistical hurdles that would additionally add if they are just taking the name and licensing with them and basically have to completely start over with everything about them as an organization?

Makes more sense the other way.

 

[MeHateHe]

To be fair, when they were in the BCHL, that league was part of Hockey Canada. So it seems to me like that was much more just promoting a team already under the umbrella.

Raiding the USHL is not the same.

They moved from the NAHL to the BCHL first. Teams move leagues all the time. It isn’t a turnkey change, for sure, but the assertion was made that there are a bunch of logistical challenges that make such a change untenable or close to it. I’m saying that there’s always a way.

 

[Hinterland]

And why would these two franchises go through all of the logistical hurdles that would additionally add if they are just taking the name and licensing with them and basically have to completely start over with everything about them as an organization?

Makes more sense the other way.

Nobody said they're gonna do it. It's obviously far from a done deal and the conditions have yet to be negociated but the OHL is a very strong and attractive brand. It's a strong league...in terms of talent output probably currently the strongest of the CHL leagues. All of their franchises are in a very good place.

 

[Blue and Green]

There are specified Canadian and American territories for the three CHL leagues. Some of those USHL players wouldn't even be eligible to play in the OHL because they are from locations that belong to WHL or QMJHL.

Expansion rules are the business of the OHL. It hasn't added any teams since 1998 so we don't really know what they might or might not do in order to accommodate potential new franchises.

 

[Hinterland]

There are specified Canadian and American territories for the three CHL leagues. Some of those USHL players wouldn't even be eligible to play in the OHL because they are from locations that belong to WHL or QMJHL.

Expansion rules are the business of the OHL. It hasn't added any teams since 1998 so we don't really know what they might or might not do in order to accommodate potential new franchises.

David Branch has done a fantastic job. He built what the OHL is today but I don't think the timing of expansion being on the table is a coincidence. New commissioner Bryan Crawford, good or bad, is much younger and and will approach things differently. Expansion was always gonna be on his agenda and he's gonna push it aggressively. Is it gonna work out? We'll see.

 

[Kingpin794]

Copy and pasting from the OHL threads

If the USA hockey was smart, they'd do something like this:

Dissolve the USHL and NAHL. Take the teams from both leagues and realign them into 3 leagues. One on the east coast, one in the north/plains, one in the south/west. Truly create a junior hockey system for most of the Americans that either can't make CHL clubs or don't want to go to the CHL, which is the vast majority of them. Actually try to develop talent on the whole instead of just having one league be a feeder for another.

 

[Corso]

Copy and pasting from the OHL threads

If the USA hockey was smart, they'd do something like this:

Dissolve the USHL and NAHL. Take the teams from both leagues and realign them into 3 leagues. One on the east coast, one in the north/plains, one in the south/west. Truly create a junior hockey system for most of the Americans that either can't make CHL clubs or don't want to go to the CHL, which is the vast majority of them. Actually try to develop talent on the whole instead of just having one league be a feeder for another.

Do you assume that the USHL will cease to function as a "tier 1" entity? If the USHL is eventually dismembered by the OHL/WHL then yes, your idea would make sense.

I can see Muskegon and Youngstown joining the O (though I really do wonder about their financial viability in the O, especially Youngstown), I can't see the rest of the U joining the CHL due to geographical limitations.

If I were the USHL, I would be making a full court press on getting USA Hockey on board to petition the NHL for some type of greater sponsorship agreements and then expand into Minnesota, Ohio, N.Y and Pennsylvania in order to head off OHL/WHL expansion.

Problem with my wishful thinking, however, is that at the moment both USA Hockey and the USHL leadership are paralyzed by this latest NCAA development and really do not have a clear plan on how to address it. Meanwhile, CHL leadership is laser focused on making sure they land on top.

 

[Kingpin794]

Do you assume that the USHL will cease to function as a "tier 1" entity? If the USHL is eventually dismembered by the OHL/WHL then yes, your idea would make sense.

I can see Muskegon and Youngstown joining the O (though I really do wonder about their financial viability in the O, especially Youngstown), I can't see the rest of the U joining the CHL due to geographical limitations.

If I were the USHL, I would be making a full court press on getting USA Hockey on board to petition the NHL for some type of greater sponsorship agreements and then expand into Minnesota, Ohio, N.Y and Pennsylvania in order to head off OHL/WHL expansion.

Problem with my wishful thinking, however, is that at the moment both USA Hockey and the USHL leadership are paralyzed by this latest NCAA development and really do not have a clear plan on how to address it. Meanwhile, CHL leadership is laser focused on making sure they land on top.

To be clear, my proposal is not what I think what WILL happen. What I think WILL happen is that the USHL will just absorb some NAHL teams to make up for the teams they lose and keep on trucking for the foreseeable future.

I just thought my hypothetical would be beneficial to them in the longer run. It would be 3 tier 1 leagues under USA Hockey. Basically their version of what Canada has.

 

[Boonk]

Youngstown and Muskegon make sense, the rest its hard to imagine jumping ship. Chicago has a way too small capacity facility rn and is far too midwest to join the WHL, maybe OHL if they do a future midwest expansion and if the new Wirtz ownership is willing to pay for junior team ferries & charter flights, along with a bigger facility. Fargo is a 5+ hr drive to Brandon with another border crossing there, and no other US based WHL team close by. Green Bay? Maybe, Chicago could be close by at a 3hr drive, but the closest OHL team nearby would be the Soo Greyhounds, which is another 5hr border crossing drive and they would still need round-trip ferries or charter flights to go to Michigan and further in Ontario.

Way too many factors to determine which teams are ultimately going to jump ship to the CHL now and for the forseeable future.

 

[Corso]

Youngstown and Muskegon make sense, the rest its hard to imagine jumping ship. Chicago has a way too small capacity facility rn and is far too midwest to join the WHL, maybe OHL if they do a future midwest expansion and if the new Wirtz ownership is willing to pay for junior team ferries & charter flights, along with a bigger facility. Fargo is a 5+ hr drive to Brandon with another border crossing there, and no other US based WHL team close by. Green Bay? Maybe, Chicago could be close by at a 3hr drive, but the closest OHL team nearby would be the Soo Greyhounds, which is another 5hr border crossing drive and they would still need round-trip ferries or charter flights to go to Michigan and further in Ontario.

Way too many factors to determine which teams are ultimately going to jump ship to the CHL now and for the forseeable future.

The rumor is that Chicago wants in, the question is, will the OHL expand that far west, if so, look for Green Bay to be "absorbed" so to speak.

To be clear, my proposal is not what I think what WILL happen. What I think WILL happen is that the USHL will just absorb some NAHL teams to make up for the teams they lose and keep on trucking for the foreseeable future.

I just thought my hypothetical would be beneficial to them in the longer run. It would be 3 tier 1 leagues under USA Hockey. Basically their version of what Canada has.

No question the USHL will look towards certain NAHL franchises to join, but which ones? Again, geography is King here. Being tier 1 comes with financial costs though, and how many NAHL owners be willing to pony up?

 

[Boonk]

The rumor is that Chicago wants in, the question is, will the OHL expand that far west, if so, look for Green Bay to be "absorbed" so to speak.


No question the USHL will look towards certain NAHL franchises to join, but which ones? Again, geography is King here. Being tier 1 comes with financial costs though, and how many NAHL owners be willing to pony up?

Chicago and Greenbay would be the most logical of the clubs if they join together, Chicago desparately needs a newer upsized facility for a longterm OHL outlook tho, Fox Valley is a frankenstein arena and would need expansion and renovations and Fifth Thirds new big practice arena expansion only seats 1500.

 

[Blue and Green]

If I were the USHL, I would be making a full court press on getting USA Hockey on board to petition the NHL for some type of greater sponsorship agreements and then expand into Minnesota, Ohio, N.Y and Pennsylvania in order to head off OHL/WHL expansion.

I can't envision the motivation for NHL to give more money to USHL when the latter is going to suffer a marked decline in talent. Three cross-border major junior leagues with an increased number of American franchises should suit the NHL's purposes just fine.

 

[Corso]

Chicago and Greenbay would be the most logical of the clubs if they join together, Chicago desparately needs a newer upsized facility for a longterm OHL outlook tho, Fox Valley is a frankenstein arena and would need expansion and renovations and Fifth Thirds new big practice arena expansion only seats 1500.

From a purely business angle, I just don't understand why the ownership groups of Muskegon and Youngstown want to join the OHL. The costs associated with that league will be much higher than what their current expenditures are in the USHL. I do imagine closer travel has a lot to do with it but I really really question as to whether or not they will be viable in the O.

If the Wirtz group wants in, they will most likely absorb the costs and subsidize travel. The arena is an issue, but they can certainly make something happen if they so choose.

I can't envision the motivation for NHL to give more money to USHL when the latter is going to suffer a marked decline in talent. Three cross-border major junior leagues with an increased number of American franchises should suit the NHL's purposes just fine.

And that's pretty well much as to how the NHL brass will look at it. Further expansion of the CHL into the American market will be better for USA Hockey in both the immediate and long term.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I can't envision the motivation for NHL to give more money to USHL when the latter is going to suffer a marked decline in talent. Three cross-border major junior leagues with an increased number of American franchises should suit the NHL's purposes just fine.

Why hasn’t the USHL declined yet then? And why do you think the NHL will play winners and losers between the USHL and CHL?

 

[Bonin21]

MN HS to USHL (either after graduating or one year early for superstars with nothing to prove in HS) to NCAA will remain a great path, and I think even more Minnesotans (as a percentage) will be in the USHL now. So selfishly I'm fine with these two leaving the league.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Chicago and Greenbay would be the most logical of the clubs if they join together, Chicago desparately needs a newer upsized facility for a longterm OHL outlook tho, Fox Valley is a frankenstein arena and would need expansion and renovations and Fifth Thirds new big practice arena expansion only seats 1500.

In a place like Chicago metro, there are options though. The NOW Arena in Hoffman Estates for instance is where a G-League Basketball team plays and is only 30 minutes north of where they play now.

I can't envision the motivation for NHL to give more money to USHL when the latter is going to suffer a marked decline in talent. Three cross-border major junior leagues with an increased number of American franchises should suit the NHL's purposes just fine.

If the OHL demographics were to mirror NHL demographics because all the Americans in the region want to play in the OHL instead of the USNTDP or USHL, about 200 Canadian kids are getting cut from the OHL, and they'll need a place to play. It's likely the USHL exists in some capacity regardless of who slots where.