Olympics: USA Roster Discussion (Roster in post 1)

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I think folks are making too much out of the individual player selections. Yes, there are players on this team that shouldn't be here, but the roster selections aren't as egregious as some of the posts would indicate either. No, we shouldn't have sent a mostly NCAA squad, nor are there guaranteed, impact players missing either, but they definitely made a handful of indefensible selections.

My biggest problem with the player selections is an issue I have with USAH in most tournaments: too many of the selections are pre-determined in spite of the current state of play. They too heavily value veterans and intangibles and they'll force those characteristics or players, results be damned. For example:
  • Brian Gionta was guaranteed a roster spot a long time ago.
    • Why is a 39 year old that has played 3 games in the prior 10 months, and hasn't played a meaningful hockey game in years, given a free pass? Because USAH overrates the intangibles like experience and leadership, even though there's plenty of veterans on this team (that deserve to be on this team) that can provide that too. Just because they're not former long-time NHL players doesn't mean they can't offer the same intangibles.
  • NCAAers were also guaranteed roster spots before the season even started.
    • The problem isn't the players that are here, as they've proven to be ready for the challenge, it's that they didn't seem to consider any other players they didn't already commit to 10 months ago. Greenway has been good so far, much better than he's been this year for BU, but what did they see in him (in spite of his season) that convinced them he was ready for the challenge but Adam Gaudette wasn't? It's as if they went after securing a core group after last season (Boeser, Keller, McAvoy, Greenway, Terry, Donato, Bjork) and the NCAA guys that didn't go pro were the NCAA guys they were going to choose in the end no matter what.
  • James Wisniewski makes the team as a PP specialist that can't be trusted in any other situation.
    • If they were indeed eyeing Wiz, why wasn't he at the Deutschland Cup? What did a 33 year old d-man that's been playing mostly irrelevant hockey in the past 3+ years show in the second-tier German hockey league that wasn't good enough for a Deutschland invite (one he was openly campaigning for), yet was good enough for an Olympic roster spot? Again, this screams of USAH over-thinking things. A player being a shootout or PP specialist could be a deciding factor (all else being relatively equal) but should not be the qualifying factor. If you don't trust Wiz to take a shift 5-on-5 against Slovenia, why is he here?
  • No WJC players under consideration.
    • That's not to say more than 2-3 (Mittelstadt, Bellows, Tkachuk) should even have received consideration, but the blanket rejection is patented USAH that often cares more about appeasing all its partners than it does winning. If they deserve an invite, invite them, and let the player, family, and NCAA team make the decision.

That's not to say the whole roster is indefensible as a majority of the picks are correct or highly defensible, but there are guys that should be here no questions asked. I think some folks are using hindsight's advantage too much regarding NCAA players. If Donato, Terry, and Greenway were invisible, folks wouldn't be clamoring for a ton of NCAA guys either.

Trying to remove hindsight as much as possible, who else do I think should have been here? I think the following guys are indefensible omissions:
  • Adam Gaudette: He's the best player in college hockey, an offensive dynamo (at this level), and he's got good size (compared to our tiny forward group now).
  • Daniel Brickley: He was good enough to make last year's World Championship roster (which had way more talent than this Olympic team), and he played fine there. Given his NCAA season, how is he not here? That's not to say I have a problem with Borgen's selection, but it shouldn't have been at Brickley's expense if that was the case.
  • Dan Sexton: Yes, he didn't have a good Deutschland Cup (like all the Americans there), but he's an experienced player still in his prime and he's a top producer in the KHL.
I would have chosen more guys than just those above (such as Ryan Lasch), but the above 3 are indefensible to me. When you factor in hindsight and see how the NCAA guys have been our best players, it's certainly clear that more of them could have been here too (choose a few from Mittelstadt, Schuldt, Belpedio, Laczynski, Gambrell, etc.) and had an impact.

That's not to say choosing those guys would have changed anything thus far. But USAH continually puts the team at a disadvantage by trying to outsmart the competition with a 1990s mentality to the game.
 
That's quite the hot take....
If by beer league you mean top Senior AAA clubs (aka Allen Cup level teams), then yeah, they're probably equivalent to SerieA, DEL2, EIHL, etc. (I'm basing this on guys I know who have played in these various leagues).
The KHL, NLA, SHL and other top european leagues are simply on another level though. Seriously, the north Americans who are over there in those leagues right now were College or Major Junior standouts, were good/great in the AHL, and many even had a decent NHL career. You simply can't say the same about beer leagues!

Most of those leagues suck. I play with guys who played in those "pro" leagues. Much better players knew they didn't have a future in hockey, and gave up their dream. Some guys said the hell with it and played wherever they could. All those guys playing "pro" have above the other players is persistence and stubbornness.... They aren't necessarily better players... A lot of them really aren't good players at all.
 
Most of those leagues suck. I play with guys who played in those "pro" leagues. Much better players knew they didn't have a future in hockey, and gave up their dream. Some guys said the hell with it and played wherever they could. All those guys playing "pro" have above the other players is persistence and stubbornness.... They aren't necessarily better players... A lot of them really aren't good players at all.

I don't disagree. Like i said, good "beer league" teams are probably equivalent to the German second league, Great Britain, Italy, Denmark, etc.. (ie. leagues which aren't really that good).
But Sweden, KHL, Finland, and Switzerland are another category.
 
Russia predictably started really strong. They’re maintaining a lot of puck possession and while they’re not generating a ton of dangerous chances with the puck time, it’s only a matter of time before they do if we don’t decrease their possession time.

Welch/Gilroy are a nightmare in their own zone.

Zapolski has to cover that puck. Instead, he just gives it away and it’s in his net right after. That goal is on him.

Need to be better on faceoffs. You can’t give the Russians puck possession so frequently and easily.
 
Tough to lose a period 2-0 when the play was pretty equal. US PP looks confused and while the team is creating chances, they’re not burying them. Gionta in particular had 2 easy tap-ins and missed them both.

You can’t turn the puck over against the Russians and Donato did so on the 2nd goal. That 3rd goal was another soft one from Zapolski. He was square to Kovy and the shot was fairly pedestrian.

NBCSN intermission is spot on too. Americans passing up too many shots as well.
 
I think folks are making too much out of the individual player selections. Yes, there are players on this team that shouldn't be here, but the roster selections aren't as egregious as some of the posts would indicate either. No, we shouldn't have sent a mostly NCAA squad, nor are there guaranteed, impact players missing either, but they definitely made a handful of indefensible selections.

My biggest problem with the player selections is an issue I have with USAH in most tournaments: too many of the selections are pre-determined in spite of the current state of play. They too heavily value veterans and intangibles and they'll force those characteristics or players, results be damned. For example:
  • Brian Gionta was guaranteed a roster spot a long time ago.
    • Why is a 39 year old that has played 3 games in the prior 10 months, and hasn't played a meaningful hockey game in years, given a free pass? Because USAH overrates the intangibles like experience and leadership, even though there's plenty of veterans on this team (that deserve to be on this team) that can provide that too. Just because they're not former long-time NHL players doesn't mean they can't offer the same intangibles.
  • NCAAers were also guaranteed roster spots before the season even started.
    • The problem isn't the players that are here, as they've proven to be ready for the challenge, it's that they didn't seem to consider any other players they didn't already commit to 10 months ago. Greenway has been good so far, much better than he's been this year for BU, but what did they see in him (in spite of his season) that convinced them he was ready for the challenge but Adam Gaudette wasn't? It's as if they went after securing a core group after last season (Boeser, Keller, McAvoy, Greenway, Terry, Donato, Bjork) and the NCAA guys that didn't go pro were the NCAA guys they were going to choose in the end no matter what.
  • James Wisniewski makes the team as a PP specialist that can't be trusted in any other situation.
    • If they were indeed eyeing Wiz, why wasn't he at the Deutschland Cup? What did a 33 year old d-man that's been playing mostly irrelevant hockey in the past 3+ years show in the second-tier German hockey league that wasn't good enough for a Deutschland invite (one he was openly campaigning for), yet was good enough for an Olympic roster spot? Again, this screams of USAH over-thinking things. A player being a shootout or PP specialist could be a deciding factor (all else being relatively equal) but should not be the qualifying factor. If you don't trust Wiz to take a shift 5-on-5 against Slovenia, why is he here?
  • No WJC players under consideration.
    • That's not to say more than 2-3 (Mittelstadt, Bellows, Tkachuk) should even have received consideration, but the blanket rejection is patented USAH that often cares more about appeasing all its partners than it does winning. If they deserve an invite, invite them, and let the player, family, and NCAA team make the decision.

That's not to say the whole roster is indefensible as a majority of the picks are correct or highly defensible, but there are guys that should be here no questions asked. I think some folks are using hindsight's advantage too much regarding NCAA players. If Donato, Terry, and Greenway were invisible, folks wouldn't be clamoring for a ton of NCAA guys either.

Trying to remove hindsight as much as possible, who else do I think should have been here? I think the following guys are indefensible omissions:
  • Adam Gaudette: He's the best player in college hockey, an offensive dynamo (at this level), and he's got good size (compared to our tiny forward group now).
  • Daniel Brickley: He was good enough to make last year's World Championship roster (which had way more talent than this Olympic team), and he played fine there. Given his NCAA season, how is he not here? That's not to say I have a problem with Borgen's selection, but it shouldn't have been at Brickley's expense if that was the case.
  • Dan Sexton: Yes, he didn't have a good Deutschland Cup (like all the Americans there), but he's an experienced player still in his prime and he's a top producer in the KHL.
I would have chosen more guys than just those above (such as Ryan Lasch), but the above 3 are indefensible to me. When you factor in hindsight and see how the NCAA guys have been our best players, it's certainly clear that more of them could have been here too (choose a few from Mittelstadt, Schuldt, Belpedio, Laczynski, Gambrell, etc.) and had an impact.

That's not to say choosing those guys would have changed anything thus far. But USAH continually puts the team at a disadvantage by trying to outsmart the competition with a 1990s mentality to the game.
Very well stated Billy

I think they should have taken another team ( including NCAA players ) and put a team into the International tournament between Christmas and New Year ( can't remember name ).

Canada had a team in it and I think they took 3 NCAA players to play
 
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When you’re playing a better and more talented team, you can’t make that many mistakes and expect to win. The two goals against courtesy of Zapolski, the Donato turnover, the two US players running into each other to let Kovy walk in alone, Gionta missing 2 easy tap-ins, the missed breakaways, the numerous high quality shots passed up for low percentage passes, and so on.

Russia was the better team, carried more of the play, and deserved the win but that wasn’t a lopsided game either. In possession sure (which isn’t abnormal against the Russians), but not chances. I’m actually surprised at how many chances the US was able to generate given they never established a cycle game. The difference was Russia has a lot of their top talent and that type of talent will capitalize on their chances.

On the US side, it’s time for Granato to coach like he has nothing to lose. Dress Borgen, sit Wiz. Start any goalie. Throw the lines in a blender. Give your best players a ton of ice time.
 
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I think they should have taken another team ( including NCAA players ) and put a team into the International tournament between Christmas and New Year ( can't remember name ).

Spengler Cup? Both Canada and Switzerland used it as a dress rehearsal for this year's Olympics. Thing is, it's only a 6-team tourny, and (with the exception of Team Canada) usually a club invitational, but if the USA had the opportunity, they should have used it.
 
Very well stated Billy

I think they should have taken another team ( including NCAA players ) and put a team into the International tournament between Christmas and New Year ( can't remember name ).

Canada had a team in it and I think they took 3 NCAA players to play

Unfortunately, NCAA players wouldn't be able to participate in a mid-season tourney. They lose eligibility if they take too much time off.
If I’m not mistaken, Cale Makar turned down a Canadian Olympic invitation because it would have made him ineligible as he already took time off for the WJC.
 
I must be the only one who thinks/thought Greenway hasn't looked good. He brings some toughness/roughness, but...
 
Unfortunately, NCAA players wouldn't be able to participate in a mid-season tourney. They lose eligibility if they take too much time off.
If I’m not mistaken, Cale Makar turned down a Canadian Olympic invitation because it would have made him ineligible as he already took time off for the WJC.
They were on Christmas break ...... No time lost from school
 
so do we have any idea what our possible matchup will be? not that it matters, but **** hoping for the best scenario I guess.

It’s too hard for me to figure out as they rank every team 1-12 and the USA is probably going to be 7-8 so could plays Slovakia again but who knows with how many games yet to be played
 
Anybody know what the contract situation and/or status is with Jordan Greenway? Is he in the Wild’s future plans?

They just moved a contract in Lucia, so my guess is he'll be brought in after his college career is over. If not this year, then definitely offseason. Kid is not going anywhere.
 
Zapolski is the worst goalie of all time. How is that the best this team could do. USA should be ashamed of themselves.
 

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