USA all time team

[Eye of Ra]

Do Matthews, Q Hughes, Fox and M.Tkachuk already belong on it?

I would say yes. What are you guys take?

Gaudreau - Modano - Hull
Leclair - Lafontonie - Kane
K.Tkachuk - Matthews - Mullen
M.Tkachuck - Roenick - Janney

Leetch - Chelios
Housley - Fox
Hughes - G Suter

Richter
Thomas
Bishop

Click to read more...

 

[MadLuke]

Hellebuyck should probably be there.

Howe or R.Suter maybe we can usually have 7D on those.

 

[seventieslord]

Hellebuyck should probably be there.

Howe or R.Suter maybe we can usually have 7D on those.

Howe is still the third greatest defenseman of all time that that country has produced. He should be on this team easily.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

matthew tkachuk modano kane
leclair matthews wheeler
pavelski lafontaine mullen
keith tkachuk roenick kessel

chelios leetch
howe langway
ryan suter hughes

brimsek
hellebuyck


feel like there are more than a few guys i’m forgetting in the forward ranks

also, i don’t acknowledge brett hull as american

 

[seventieslord]

matthew tkachuk modano kane
leclair matthews wheeler
pavelski lafontaine mullen
keith tkachuk roenick kessel

chelios leetch
howe langway
ryan suter hughes

brimsek
hellebuyck


feel like there are more than a few guys i’m forgetting in the forward ranks

also, i don’t acknowledge brett hull as american

Much better, although I think you forgot Brett Hull.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Howe is still the third greatest defenseman of all time that that country has produced. He should be on this team easily.

And on top of that he is Gordies son i think?

matthew tkachuk modano kane
leclair matthews wheeler
pavelski lafontaine mullen
keith tkachuk roenick kessel

chelios leetch
howe langway
ryan suter hughes

brimsek
hellebuyck


feel like there are more than a few guys i’m forgetting in the forward ranks

also, i don’t acknowledge brett hull as american

Well Hull did play for Team USA.

 

[Mandar]

Tony Amonte should make the list.

I was never a Beezer fan, but you gotta consider him too

 

[jigglysquishy]

Brimsek starting with Hellebucyk backing up should be the easiest decision.

 

[BenchBrawl]

matthew tkachuk modano kane
leclair matthews wheeler
pavelski lafontaine mullen
keith tkachuk roenick kessel

chelios leetch
howe langway
ryan suter hughes

brimsek
hellebuyck


feel like there are more than a few guys i’m forgetting in the forward ranks

also, i don’t acknowledge brett hull as american

Man, that's a weak ass team for such a big country with pro teams on their land dating back 125 years ago.

 

[Michael Farkas]

K.Tkachuk-Modano-Hull
LeClair-LaFontaine-Kane
Gaudreau-Matthews-Pavelski
M.Tkachuk-Eichel-Roenick
J.Mullen
K.Stevens

Howe-Chelios
Leetch-Fox
Suter-Carlson
Langway
Housley

Brimsek
Hellebuyck
Quick


The top two goalies are easy choices, as there's distance between them and the rest. Beezer is a viable choice for the #3 spot, so is Ryan Miller.

I think the defense is fairly straightforward for now. Top pair is a lock, well, better said - the top 3 is a lock. I strongly believe Ryan Suter is on this team as well, but in a limited role. Quinn Hughes will be there soon enough.

The forwards are tougher because I tried to make lines that made sense. Hope I don't have a glaring omission.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Well Hull did play for Team USA.

so did bryan trottier. peter stastny and oetr nedved both played for canada. imo a kid born in canada, who played his formative hockey growing up in winnipeg and later north van doesn’t count just because his mom had a us passport and a world championship team took advantage of that fact and asked him to play when he was in college.

but ppl are welcome to adjudicate how they wish.

Quick

K.Stevens

these are the guys i forgot. if valuing high peak the way my roster did (m. tkachuk, hughes) then stevens absolutely belongs. i’ll retroactively take out daddy tkachuk.

quick can be my third goalie, although i don’t know that he doesn’t make a better backup (though not necessarily a better starter) than helly.

 

[MadLuke]

Depend a bit if we are talking about the best american players of all time and going a bit by their positions or trying to build the best team ever using American players, not that it is a vast distinction but, with large roster, specialist that are not top 30 players can find a spot.

The Joel Otto get a look type, because the coach could want him to take a faceoff in his zone late in the third/ expect a Lindros to be on the other side of things.

Could change the back-up goaltender for some teams.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Here's who I would go with:

Goaltenders (x3):

Jonathan Quick
Connor Hellebucyk
Frank Brimsek

Defensemen (x8):

Brian Leetch/Chris Chelios
Rod Langway/Quinn Hughes
Phil Housley/Mark Howe
Gary Suter/Ryan Suter

Forwards (x12):

Brett Hull/Mike Modano/Keith Tkachuk
Kevin Stevens/Pat Lafontaine/Joe Pavelski
Patrick Kane/Auston Matthews/Matthew Tkachuk
John Leclair/Jeremy Roenick/Joe Mullen

 

[bobholly39]

Do Matthews, Q Hughes, Fox and M.Tkachuk already belong on it?

I would say yes. What are you guys take?

Gaudreau - Modano - Hull
Leclair - Lafontonie - Kane
K.Tkachuk - Matthews - Mullen
M.Tkachuck - Roenick - Janney

Leetch - Chelios
Housley - Fox
Hughes - G Suter

Richter
Thomas
Bishop

I think Matthews is the #1C at this point. Unless of course you just don't trust him for playoffs and push him down because of that (which probably isn't unwarranted). At this point - he's definitely going to be US's greatest center ever, and I believe he might already be.

I think both Hughes and Fox are tremendous, so I want to say yes to both, but Im' not sure who they displace/who misses the cut. Chelios, Leetch and Howe should definitely be there above them - but beyond that I'm not sure.

Matthew Tkachuk? I dunno, possibly.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Brett Hull obviously counts, Team USA was the national team he played on, stop being weird about it. This isn't some cheeky "oh Wayne Gretzky is the best American hockey player ever" because he became a U.S. Citizen later on type of deal

 

[WarriorofTime]

Man, that's a weak ass team for such a big country with pro teams on their land dating back 125 years ago.

Makes sense since American NHL players in high numbers is a very new phenomenon. A lot more active players probably break in once the benefit of completeness and distance is given.

Active Canadians amongst top 100 all time Canadian scorers

Crosby - 8th
Stamkos - 43rd
Giroux - 50th
Tavares - 53rd
McDavid - 58th
MacKinnon - 75th
Marchand - 76th
Benn - 84th
Perry - 88th
Burns - 92nd


Active Americans amongst top 100 all time American scorers

Kane - 3rd
Carlson - 37th
Matthews - 39th
Suter - 40th
Paccioretty- 42nd
Miller - 43rd
van Riemsdyk - 46th
M. Tkachuk - 48th
Folingo - 55th
Eichel - 56th
Kreider - 60th
Nelson - 62nd
Larkin - 65th
Trocheck - 66th
Connor - 67th
Guentzel - 69th
Saad - 73rd
Palmieri - 74th
Lee - 81st
Atkinson - 83rd
DeBrincat - 84th
Keller - 88th
Fowler - 90th
Coyle - 91st
Smith - 95th
Faulk - 96th
Johnson - 99th


Number of Top 50 NHL Scorers that were American per decade:
1950s - 0
1960s - 1
1970s - 0
1980s - 5
1990s - 13
2000s - 6
2010s - 11
2020s (to date) - 15

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Brett Hull obviously counts, Team USA was the national team he played on, stop being weird about it. This isn't some cheeky "oh Wayne Gretzky is the best American hockey player ever" because he became a U.S. Citizen later on type of deal

it’s weird to me how as time has passed everyone has come to just accept this, because through the 90s, like during the 1991 canada cup and 96 world cup, everybody (on this side of the border, at least) called shenanigans.

but as i said, everyone is free to treat this how they wish. i just see a kid who was born and primarily trained in canada. he turned eight the summer they moved to winnipeg and after the divorce lived in north vancouver before moving to penticton, BC for two years after graduating high school to play in the BCHL. he didn’t live in the US again until he started college at age twenty. personally, i’m taking these rosters as “create the best roster of guys that US has produced,” and i don’t think the US produced hull so it defeats the point of what we’re trying to show or analyze here.

adam deadmarsh and darren turcotte are two other examples of players who grew up and were trained in canada but played for the US due to their dual citizenship. i don’t consider these guys american anymore than i consider william nylander or alex steen canadian.

remember, there was a time when team USA had to scrape these guys to field a competitive roster. and the interesting thing about this thread, to me, is looking how the proliferation of youth hockey since the 90s generation has generated way more high level players (as per your post upthread), but not necessarily anymore creme de la creme players than the one that came of age after the miracle on ice.

Depend a bit if we are talking about the best american players of all time and going a bit by their positions or trying to build the best team ever using American players, not that it is a vast distinction but, with large roster, specialist that are not top 30 players can find a spot.

The Joel Otto get a look type, because the coach could want him to take a faceoff in his zone late in the third/ expect a Lindros to be on the other side of things.

i was thinking the same thing. i loved (actually hated) otto, but it was hard to find a place for him because that meant having to subtract one of modano, matthews, lafontaine, and roenick. also would have loved to have found a place for a glue guy like langenbrunner, or a two-way role for say drury or even todd marchant.

but for that reason, i included blake wheeler, who on an absolute level is not necessarily one of the four best RWs (but i also cheated and moved m. tkachuk to LW) but as a dedicated playmaking winger is probably a better fit with matthews than a mullen or kessel, or to name guys who didn’t make my team but would be competitive with wheeler, guerin or amonte.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

but as i said, everyone is free to treat this how they wish.

It's pretty unambiguous, although I suppose the poster didn't confirm, but if it's truly the "USA All-Time Team" then the question "Did Brett Hull suit up for Team USA?" has a yes or no answer and that should determine whether he's qualified.

(I just don't know what to do with the Frank Brimsek response above, though.)

 

[Mandar]

Here's who I would go with:

Goaltenders (x3):

Jonathan Quick
Connor Hellebucyk
Frank Brimsek

Defensemen (x8):

Brian Leetch/Chris Chelios
Rod Langway/Quinn Hughes
Phil Housley/Mark Howe
Gary Suter/Ryan Suter

Forwards (x12):

Brett Hull/Mike Modano/Keith Tkachuk
Kevin Stevens/Pat Lafontaine/Joe Pavelski
Patrick Kane/Auston Matthews/Matthew Tkachuk
John Leclair/Jeremy Roenick/Joe Mullen

Any thoughts on Robbie Ftorek?

 

[WarriorofTime]

it’s weird to me how as time has passed everyone has come to just accept this, because through the 90s, like during the 1991 canada cup and 96 world cup, everybody (on this side of the border, at least) called shenanigans.

Whining about it doesn't somehow make it a valid perspective. Thomas Harley grew up in Syracuse and played for Canada in 4 Nations because he considered himself Canadian.

adam deadmarsh and darren turcotte are two other examples of players who grew up and were trained in canada but played for the US due to their dual citizenship. i don’t consider these guys american anymore than i consider william nylander or alex steen canadian.

Your consideration doesn't matter, this is about the team players play for in IIHF Competition, which has strict rules on switching. William Nylander is Team Sweden, that's the team he plays for. Brett Hull is Team USA, that's the team he played for. This is ultimate Team USA, not ultimate "players some Canadians in 1996 considered to be properly American"

remember, there was a time when team USA had to scrape these guys to field a competitive roster.

Brett Hull would likely be offered a spot on the USNTDP today (well maybe, as he was considered a late bloomer) and if he accepted would like end up playing for Team USA.

 

[Dingo]

Everyone I know, and everyone on TV, DID call BS on Hull as an American. I was very surprised to find out many years later that he was always connected to Chicago and lived there, even playing hockey there as a very young kid.

We also all thought Ulf Samuelsson intentionally grew a bone on Neely's right thigh by having a collision with his left thigh, which, in retrospect happened because Neely tried to get offline of a hit and left his leg out there.

You had to be there.

 

[MadLuke]

Your consideration doesn't matter, this is about the team players play for in IIHF Competition,

It feel a bit like a random fantasy game on a message board to me where all that matter is the gamers considerations....

 

[WarriorofTime]

It feel a bit like a random fantasy game on a message board to me where all that matter is the gamers considerations....

Good point

But I guess it'd be like saying "I don't personally consider the Florida Panthers to be an NHL team", which I suppose anyone can, but one that doesn't line up with reality (i.e., whether you consider Hull an American or not, what is objective is he played for Team USA internationally).

 

[Michael Farkas]

That's not really on the same level of this as far as analogies go...

 

[WarriorofTime]

That's not really on the same level of this as far as analogies go...

Brett Hull objectively played on Team USA. A list of "All Time Team USA Players" objectively includes him.

The Florida Panthers objectively play in the NHL. A list of "NHL teams" objectively includes them.

The analogy holds quite well.