Management UPDATE: Steve Staios GM and POHO, Dave Poulin Senior VP of Hockey Operations

[Loach]

I'm pretty sure my response was pretty clear for why it was objectionable.

To be clear, it is your right to make ridiculous and patently false statements in an effort to make yourself feel superior to whoever that one poster happens to be. I'm not entirely sure why you got so defensive about getting called out for using strawman arguments. You knew you what you were doing so you had to expect someone would say something, whether it was this random poster you had in mind or someone else.

Anyway, now that I've answered the same question multiple times, I'd love an answer to mine.

Where in the forum rules does it say you can't respond to someone unless directly addressed?

OBJECTION YOU HONOUR. The witness is once again failing to answer the question and is diverting to a post other than the original one. I request that the court considers this witness hostile and place a fine of....1 billion dollars ....upon him for failure to answer. What did you find objectionable?

 

[thinkwild]

Usually hiring a coach and gm is best done after the season when they are available and you can set out on a deliberate interview process. Eagerly rushing into urgent moves because the fans are angry is exactly what got us where we were. Luckily we found good interim options when we had to. But slow and deliberate works good for me. As hard as the last many years have been, that's no excuse for failing to think long term or acting impatiently.

 

[LiseL]

This is almost word for word what I believe.

It's not Andlauer and Staios' fault that they inherited this mess. Period. Nonetheless, they are the ones who are now responsible for cleaning it up and so far I haven't seen any sense of urgency in their operations. The fans of this team have signalled for years that they're tired of the losing and they need to find a way to strike a delicate balance between building for the longterm and getting results in the short term. Is it potentially unfair to them? Maybe. But that's pro sports.

Over and above inheriting a mess, SS has to try to lure players to come here and they have to fit his limited cap space. We don't know who he tried to sign but was unsuccessful. It was stated that he tried to get one of the UFA defensemen but none would come here. We know what the results ended up being, but we don't know what they tried to do over and above that. Still amazes me he got Ullmark for Korpi and got a solid stay-at-home RD to replace Chychrun as well as acquiring 3 cup winning UFA forwards. Also hired a lot of staff including new coaches. I think he's done a lot in the short time he's been here.

 

[Loach]

I'm curious who would have been hired in September if they did "fire everybody". Also the one poster loves the Dorion era and I am surprised that now his critique is that Dorion and DJ weren't fired fast enough. Almost like it's bs.

@BankStreetParade What about this post upsets you? This is the post in question. Should you wish to discuss other posts, of your own creation and chosing I might add, that is for another time. I have time, but not at this moment. Please show me what you found objectionable. You are free to post about anything here.....but what about this one made you feel unsettled.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Since people are already giving Staios shit for not firing everyone on staff as soon as he got the job and for being too nice for his job, I'm guessing it will take about 20 games before the first "fire Staios" posts pop up.

 

[DrEasy]

Fired them within 3 months of taking over haha. There needs to be some sort of continuity with a billion dollar organization. They took over in pre season. This narrative is insane and hilarious all at the same time. That type of instability for the players on the ice just walking in mid training camp and firing everyone. Anyone that thinks thats a good idea lol I have no words. They did not have the opportunity to be around these people, see how they work, understand their character, habits, relationships etc.

At least as far as I'm concerned that is not what I'm talking about. Oroboros talked about how in another organization the GM replaced all his scouting within 2 weeks of taking over. Changing the scouts doesn't affect the players on the ice. Why didn't the new regime make wholesale changes to our scouting? It's been a year now already.

For the record I didn't mind rolling with DJ Smith till at least the end of the season. But I also saw that bringing in Jacques did seem to have a beneficial effect no matter how much players may have been unsettled by the change.

 

[Ouroboros]

Since people are already giving Staios shit for not firing everyone on staff as soon as he got the job and for being too nice for his job, I'm guessing it will take about 20 games before the first "fire Staios" posts pop up.

I've already got it saved in drafts for when they lose the home opener.

 

[Bileur]

I've already got it saved in drafts for when they lose the home opener.

I’m ready to post it if we don’t score six in game one of the rookie tourney.

 

[BankStreetParade]

@BankStreetParade What about this post upsets you? This is the post in question. Should you wish to discuss other posts, of your own creation and chosing I might add, that is for another time. I have time, but not at this moment. Please show me what you found objectionable. You are free to post about anything here.....but what about this one made you feel unsettled.

Here I'll repost my reply to you since it seems to be so difficult for you to go back and read it. You reference someone who "loved" the Dorion era. See the bolded for my direct response.

Bowness interim GM until Staios appoints himself GM. What's the difference?

Edit: Also, who loved the Dorion era? Minus the 2017 run it's been nothing but disappointment for team results. Yes, there were some pieces added as a result of sucking and if this team is going to be good it'll be on the back of excellent drafting at the top of the first round. Other than that no one could say with a straight face that years of being out of the playoffs was something to love. But no one ever made that argument, did they? Just a ridiculous strawman for you to pummel into oblivion.

It's clear what I take objection to. You could make an honest argument without the need to construct this fantasy. It's extremely dishonest and it shows. Show me one person who "loved" 7 years of no playoffs...

 

[BondraTime]

Big, big issue with no moves and restructuring to the amatuer side, it's the largest issue in the org, and a very big one. The pro side got a huge jolt in DiMaio and some well earned firings.

That's the only issue I have, everything else he's been doing has been methodical and calculated

 

[Loach]

Here I'll repost my reply to you since it seems to be so difficult for you to go back and read it. You reference someone who "loved" the Dorion era. See the bolded for my direct response.

It's clear what I take objection to. You could make an honest argument without the need to construct this fantasy. It's extremely dishonest and it shows. Show me one person who "loved" 7 years of no playoffs...

You love Dorion.

 

[bert]

Big, big issue with no moves and restructuring to the amatuer side, it's the largest issue in the org, and a very big one. The pro side got a huge jolt in DiMaio and some well earned firings.

That's the only issue I have, everything else he's been doing has been methodical and calculated

While I am in agreeance about thinking they should diversify on the type of player they draft. Statistically they are above average given the picks they have had over the last 10 years. I don't think everyone is going to see this massive overhaul that you guys want to see.

 

[BondraTime]

While I am in agreeance about thinking they should diversify on the type of player they draft. Statistically they are above average given the picks they have had over the last 10 years. I don't think everyone is going to see this massive overhaul that you guys want to see.

I don't think there needs to be a massive overhaul, though it would be 2 large positions filled, I think there needs to be 2 hires.

European head - Sens have legitimately not hit on a player, outside of Stutzle and Zib who were top 5ish gimme picks, taken out of Europe in 15 years. Silfverbeg and Lehner in 09'. You need to have some european talent coming into the league, you need a viable presence in Europe and Russia, it's ~50% of every draft class, Sens have essentially eliminated that pool, and when they've gone there, they've reached for tools, which we know is something they value, a large majority of the time. It hasn't worked out well.

New Head of Amatuer - Sens have 3 guys who have been scouting for them for a combined 65 years in Fargher, Janecyk and Boyd who carry the room. Sens need an outside hire to slot in above these guys, otherwise we are going to continue to make the same selections we've been accustomed to so much people can accurately predict who is being taken where hours before the pick

Like the Leafs bringing in Leach to be their Head, their drafting is going to see a very large detour from what they have been doing the past 5+ years, the Sens need the same kind of influx

 

[BankStreetParade]

You love Dorion.

 

[Loach]

Say it.

 

[bert]

This is almost word for word what I believe.

It's not Andlauer and Staios' fault that they inherited this mess. Period. Nonetheless, they are the ones who are now responsible for cleaning it up and so far I haven't seen any sense of urgency in their operations. The fans of this team have signalled for years that they're tired of the losing and they need to find a way to strike a delicate balance between building for the longterm and getting results in the short term. Is it potentially unfair to them? Maybe. But that's pro sports.

They have turned over almost half the roster 10 players to be exact, both coaching staffs in Belleville and Ottawa, added a new head pro scout, a VP or hockey operations, an advisor of hockey operations, a new head pro scout, full new medical bay and added staff, full new analytics department, new strength conditioning and nutrition department with literally the best in the business. This is in 11.5 months. Either you are not aware of this or being deliberately inaccurate in order to turn this into personal insults as you have with Loach. There are literally hundreds of posts of you defending the Dorion regime and going after anyone who quite clearly at this point rightly criticized them. To say you didnt with the overwhelming evidence against that is damning towards your claims.

Most people who function in society are capable of the bare minimum of critical thinking where you see cause and effect. Deductive reasoning applied at the most basic level will look at previous managements decisions that were made in regards to cap management, trading high picks throughout the middle of a rebuild and seeing where this team is at. Its not hard for a normal person to decipher that the state he left the team in is at the very least incredibly challenging. Anyone that simply just expects immediate results and a full 180 while being hamstrung the way they have with no cap space, a bottom 5 prospect pool and very little picks either isnt a serious fan or has very unreasonable expectations. To sum it up with that's pro sports I dont think is norm at all.

 

[BankStreetParade]

They have turned over almost half the roster 10 players to be exact, both coaching staffs in Belleville and Ottawa, added a new head pro scout, a VP or hockey operations, an advisor of hockey operations, a new head pro scout, full new medical bay and added staff, full new analytics department, new strength conditioning and nutrition department with literally the best in the business. This is in 11.5 months. Either you are not aware of this or being deliberately inaccurate in order to turn this into personal insults as you have with Loach. There are literally hundreds of posts of you defending the Dorion regime and going after anyone who quite clearly at this point rightly criticized them. To say you didnt with the overwhelming evidence against that is damning towards your claims.

Most people who function in society are capable of the bare minimum of critical thinking where you see cause and effect. Deductive reasoning applied at the most basic level will look at previous managements decisions that were made in regards to cap management, trading high picks throughout the middle of a rebuild and seeing where this team is at. Its not hard for a normal person to decipher that the state he left the team in is at the very least incredibly challenging. Anyone that simply just expects immediate results and a full 180 while being hamstrung the way they have with no cap space, a bottom 5 prospect pool and very little picks either isnt a serious fan or has very unreasonable expectations. To sum it up with that's pro sports I dont think is norm at all.

Surely you must be aware that I automatically disregard all of your responses to me, right? I mean you must realize that. I didn't read a single word of whatever this is about. Hope that clarifies things for you vis a vis how much your opinion and posts matter to me.

Say it.

I don't know what you're talking about and I suspect it's because you don't know either. Let's just both move on, it's clear you don't have anything substantive to add to any discussion except to erect strawman arguments that you can then "obliterate". If that's your bag, cool bro.

 

[bert]

Surely you must be aware that I automatically disregard all of your responses to me, right? I mean you must realize that. I didn't read a single word of whatever this is about. Hope that clarifies things for you vis a vis how much your opinion and posts matter to me.


I don't know what you're talking about and I suspect it's because you don't know either. Let's just both move on, it's clear you don't have anything substantive to add to any discussion except to erect strawman arguments that you can then "obliterate". If that's your bag, cool bro.

Full denial. Still sitting at the first step I see, 0 progress.

 

[Masked]

I don't think there needs to be a massive overhaul, though it would be 2 large positions filled, I think there needs to be 2 hires.

European head - Sens have legitimately not hit on a player, outside of Stutzle and Zib who were top 5ish gimme picks, taken out of Europe in 15 years. Silfverbeg and Lehner in 09'. You need to have some european talent coming into the league, you need a viable presence in Europe and Russia, it's ~50% of every draft class, Sens have essentially eliminated that pool, and when they've gone there, they've reached for tools, which we know is something they value, a large majority of the time. It hasn't worked out well.

New Head of Amatuer - Sens have 3 guys who have been scouting for them for a combined 65 years in Fargher, Janecyk and Boyd who carry the room. Sens need an outside hire to slot in above these guys, otherwise we are going to continue to make the same selections we've been accustomed to so much people can accurately predict who is being taken where hours before the pick

Like the Leafs bringing in Leach to be their Head, their drafting is going to see a very large detour from what they have been doing the past 5+ years, the Sens need the same kind of influx

Those would be the two hardest hires to make.

Staios likely does not have many connections to European scouts.

Head of Amateur scouting likely doesn't have many people available on the free market to come in and take over. With Boyd 72 years old it is more likely that Staios replaces him from within but first he has to evaluate and determine who on the scouting staff should get promoted.

 

[Loach]

Surely you must be aware that I automatically disregard all of your responses to me, right? I mean you must realize that. I didn't read a single word of whatever this is about. Hope that clarifies things for you vis a vis how much your opinion and posts matter to me.


I don't know what you're talking about and I suspect it's because you don't know either. Let's just both move on, it's clear you don't have anything substantive to add to any discussion except to erect strawman arguments that you can then "obliterate". If that's your bag, cool bro.

Just say it. "I, BankStreetParade, love Dorion. He never did anything wrong, I support him with all my being and everything is Staois' fault."

 

[Senator Stanley]

I don't think there needs to be a massive overhaul, though it would be 2 large positions filled, I think there needs to be 2 hires.

European head - Sens have legitimately not hit on a player, outside of Stutzle and Zib who were top 5ish gimme picks, taken out of Europe in 15 years. Silfverbeg and Lehner in 09'. You need to have some european talent coming into the league, you need a viable presence in Europe and Russia, it's ~50% of every draft class, Sens have essentially eliminated that pool, and when they've gone there, they've reached for tools, which we know is something they value, a large majority of the time. It hasn't worked out well.

New Head of Amatuer - Sens have 3 guys who have been scouting for them for a combined 65 years in Fargher, Janecyk and Boyd who carry the room. Sens need an outside hire to slot in above these guys, otherwise we are going to continue to make the same selections we've been accustomed to so much people can accurately predict who is being taken where hours before the pick

Like the Leafs bringing in Leach to be their Head, their drafting is going to see a very large detour from what they have been doing the past 5+ years, the Sens need the same kind of influx

It makes me wonder how much of their obsession with tools is driven, at least in part, by a lack of resources. It takes relatively few viewings to assess whether a prospect has the tools we value - size, mobility, compete. If you're Ruutu, and it's basically just you and one other guy covering Europe, the most efficient way to scout is to identify those guys with the easy-to-see tools, and then focus your attention from there. It's a lot more time intensive to distinguish between prospects on the meaty part of the curve - e.g. your 5'11" forward with so-so skating who'll make it because their intelligence/skill is just a few degrees better than the rest.

Of course, we largely draft this way in North America as well, where we seem to have plenty of scouts, so maybe resources have nothing to do with it.

 

[BondraTime]

Those would be the two hardest hires to make.

Staios likely does not have many connections to European scouts.

Head of Amateur scouting likely doesn't have many people available on the free market to come in and take over. With Boyd 72 years old it is more likely that Staios replaces him from within but first he has to evaluate and determine who on the scouting staff should get promoted.

There is nobody to take over, unless you want to give it to Fargher or Janecyk, who are the same age, give or take. They have been with the Sens since before the turn of the millenium. Then Ruutuu as well has been here for 20+ years, but is in his early 40's.

The rest of the Sens scouting staff are extremely green. Ostberg has the most NHL experience, and he hasn't exactly been a shining light out of Europe. Everyone else has 1-6 years experience out of their own zone. Boeser, De Blois, Sterling (his dad is a pro scout for theb Sens), Flannagan, Gordon, Strumm Jr. are all just starting their scouting careers.

They need/ed to poach guys, agressively, with the promotions to head European/Amatuer.

Someone like from Kekalainen from Nashville for both would be absolutely fine for me. Two birds with one stone. His brother was great for the Sens, he's got 25+ years NHL scouting experience, he's 53 years old, and Nashville has been a machine at the draft table out of Europe.

Offer him Head of Amatuer/European Scouting, shuffle the chairs a tiny bit with him adding a scout or two, and go from there.

Of course theory isn't the same as practice, but something along those lines needs to happen, the Sens don't have a replacement in house

 

[Ouroboros]

Was there ever any follow-up to the reports that the development coaches were stepping down/being let go? Just noticed that all three of Redden, Winchester and Donovan have been removed from the Hockey Ops section of the Sens website.

 

[Micklebot]

Was there ever any follow-up to the reports that the development coaches were stepping down/being let go? Just noticed that all three of Redden, Winchester and Donovan have been removed from the Hockey Ops section of the Sens website.

Wasn't Donovan at the dev camp?

 

[BankStreetParade]

Just say it. "I, BankStreetParade, love Dorion. He never did anything wrong, I support him with all my being and everything is Staois' fault."

I know it's easy for you to say things that you don't believe or aren't true but it's not in my character to do so. You should really move on. Almost no one, including me, cares about this whole schtick you're doing except, it seems, for that 1 person who keeps liking all your posts. Maybe you should talk to them instead? It seems like they're desperate for your attention and vice versa.