Management UPDATE: Steve Staios GM and POHO, Dave Poulin Senior VP of Hockey Operations

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bert

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I think Staios would be doing Norris a great disservice if he’s claiming he will make a full recovery while Norris is actually never going to be the same.

I don’t know that there’s anything to protect either. If a team is ever interested in him they’re gonna ask for his medicals. Actually if Norris’ shoulder was never going to be the same, I’d expect them to temper expectations, say we’re not sure when he’ll be back and he’ll need some time to adjust given the nature of his injury.
Staios hasn't done that though. He's basically been no comment saying they will support him through his rehab. Not once has he said full recovery and frankly if anyone thinks that its incredibly naive.

They are protecting the asset by saying nothing. Expecting him to rehab as best he can is the only answer.
 

PlayOn

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Staios hasn't done that though. He's basically been no comment saying they will support him through his rehab. Not once has he said full recovery and frankly if anyone thinks that its incredibly naive.

They are protecting the asset by saying nothing. Expecting him to rehab as best he can is the only answer.
He said at the end of the season he expects him to be 100% physically. That’s a pretty strong statement.
 

bert

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He said at the end of the season he expects him to be 100% physically. That’s a pretty strong statement.
Yes correct I heard that he also said its a tough long road and they will support him. But what do you think he is going to say? Josh won't be the same player again but we hope he can contribute? In the event they trade him the assets is diminished greatly if he says different. Fact of the matter is he will never be the same. Even before this most recent injury he wasn't going to be. So instead of fantasizing about something that isn't going to happen I don't think they should trade Joseph to make room for a player that will never be the same and likely barely play before he gets hurt again.

I just wondered if there are any examples like Norris. If he comes back gets hurt again what's the protocol? Can a player be permanently LTIR'd? Or what if he does this rehab and can't actually pass a physical? What happens for the sens and the rest of the duration of his contract?
 

lancepitlick

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A bit disappointing they couldn't aquire higher quality players, aside from the goalie, but I'm not surprised. Dorion left the team in a dire situation with little cap room, no veterans, no prospects, no picks, and a losing culture.

I said a bunch of times that I didn't see how Staois could possibly turn this thing around in the short-term unless literally everything goes right. Every player needs to be healthy, play at their best, the coaches need to work miracles, old guys have to have 1-2 more seasons in them. Etc.

To me these moves scream Plan A, while preserving plan B, which is a gradual and painful rebuild. Even the picks were Plan B type moves. None of the roster moves will have negative consequences 2-4 seasons from now. The only move that doesn't jive with that was the trade of the Boston pick, but you can probably get that back by trading the goalie for an equivalent pick/prospect, if it comes to that.

Overall though I'd say they'll be tougher, have more veterans, be better defensively and have better goaltending. Which is pretty much what Staois said was his goal. I think we all hoped the level of player in this roles would be better, but I don't see what assets Ottawa had to get those players.

Dorion screwed this team over so hard it isn't funny. Five high first round picks out the door on a rebuilding team for what amounts to absolutely nothing. That's completely insane.

Dadynov, Boucher, Duchesne, Chychrun, Debrincat. Five swings and five misses.

If just four of those picks were average to decent NHL players on cheap deals now or next couple seasons the team is in a much better place.
 
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PlayOn

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Yes correct I heard that he also said its a tough long road and they will support him. But what do you think he is going to say? Josh won't be the same player again but we hope he can contribute? In the event they trade him the assets is diminished greatly if he says different. Fact of the matter is he will never be the same. Even before this most recent injury he wasn't going to be. So instead of fantasizing about something that isn't going to happen I don't think they should trade Joseph to make room for a player that will never be the same and likely barely play before he gets hurt again.

I just wondered if there are any examples like Norris. If he comes back gets hurt again what's the protocol? Can a player be permanently LTIR'd? Or what if he does this rehab and can't actually pass a physical? What happens for the sens and the rest of the duration of his contract?
No, I don’t expect him to say he’ll never be the same again. I would think he would say something along the lines of they’ll monitor his progress throughout the summer and it being too early to tell when he’ll be fully ready to go, as opposed to saying he will be ready for camp and 100% physically and mentally.

I think the way it’s been approached indicates maybe something was off last time around. But anyway, it’s pure speculation. I’m not a doctor so who knows what’s going on.
 
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CallSaul

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Yes correct I heard that he also said its a tough long road and they will support him. But what do you think he is going to say? Josh won't be the same player again but we hope he can contribute? In the event they trade him the assets is diminished greatly if he says different. Fact of the matter is he will never be the same. Even before this most recent injury he wasn't going to be. So instead of fantasizing about something that isn't going to happen I don't think they should trade Joseph to make room for a player that will never be the same and likely barely play before he gets hurt again.

I just wondered if there are any examples like Norris. If he comes back gets hurt again what's the protocol? Can a player be permanently LTIR'd? Or what if he does this rehab and can't actually pass a physical? What happens for the sens and the rest of the duration of his contract?

You're making quite a few leaps here. There's nothing outside of fan panic to indicate that Josh Norris' career is in jeopardy, and plenty of players have had major injuries, a couple of setbacks in the short-term when recovering said injuries, but then went on to have long, productive careers.

Derick Brassard went throught it when he was 20 and ended up playing over 1000 NHL games.
 

Beech

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You're making quite a few leaps here. There's nothing outside of fan panic to indicate that Josh Norris' career is in jeopardy, and plenty of players have had major injuries, a couple of setbacks in the short-term when recovering said injuries, but then went on to have long, productive careers.

Derick Brassard went through it when he was 20 and ended up playing over 1000 NHL games.
there will always be the exceptions. The issue is, what of the bulk?

We have a player with 4 years at 8 AAV and almost 9.5 M true salary. From day one of his arrival, the feeling was; we are set at the 2C for the next 10 years.

Now, we have no idea. and we will only know in 6-8 months. Even then, we have no idea of what 1 year and 6-8 months will look like.

The reality is, this team is in a precarious position. Cards could fall in any fashion from; Wonderful, to: disasters. Norris, Chabot, Stuzzle (Minor injury). Age (Giroux, Perron, Jensen). Contract uncertainty/re-sign (Ulmark, Batherson, Pinto).

And to find ourselves here, after 7 years of misery, is unreal. No sense of whether the elevator is moving up or down. We have no idea if when it stops, are we in the basement or the penthouse

The next 18-20 months will be interesting.
 
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Golden_Jet

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No, I don’t expect him to say he’ll never be the same again. I would think he would say something along the lines of they’ll monitor his progress throughout the summer and it being too early to tell when he’ll be fully ready to go, as opposed to saying he will be ready for camp and 100% physically and mentally.

I think the way it’s been approached indicates maybe something was off last time around. But anyway, it’s pure speculation. I’m not a doctor so who knows what’s going on.
I took it as they think he’ll be ready, as he’s tracking there, there was a bit of a but and hesitation in his answer, towards the end.
As you can’t say for sure.
 

Cosmix

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there will always be the exceptions. The issue is, what of the bulk?

We have a player with 4 years at 8 AAV and almost 9.5 M true salary. From day one of his arrival, the feeling was; we are set at the 2C for the next 10 years.

Now, we have no idea. and we will only know in 6-8 months. Even then, we have no idea of what 1 year and 6-8 months will look like.

The reality is, this team is in a precarious position. Cards could fall in any fashion from; Wonderful, to: disasters. Norris, Chabot, Stuzzle (Minor injury). Age (Giroux, Perron, Jensen). Contract uncertainty/re-sign (Ulmark, Batherson, Pinto).

And to find ourselves here, after 7 years of misery, is unreal. No sense of whether the elevator is moving up or down. We have no idea if when it stops, are we in the basement or the penthouse

The next 18-20 months will be interesting.
It is almost certain we are in the last quartile of teams. Thanks to Melnyk and Dorion.

Now Andlauer and Staois are at the helm. I am from Missouri on them. Not impressed so far.
 

bert

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You're making quite a few leaps here. There's nothing outside of fan panic to indicate that Josh Norris' career is in jeopardy, and plenty of players have had major injuries, a couple of setbacks in the short-term when recovering said injuries, but then went on to have long, productive careers.

Derick Brassard went throught it when he was 20 and ended up playing over 1000 NHL games.
Unfortunately I know for a fact about his shoulder. It will never be 100 percent. He has to get used to it being this uncomfortable. He wasn't taking contact and now he hurt it again. This isn't isolated this is his 4th surgery on the same shoulder. He is 24.
 

Micklebot

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Unfortunately I know for a fact about his shoulder. It will never be 100 percent. He has to get used to it being this uncomfortable. He wasn't taking contact and now he hurt it again. This isn't isolated this is his 4th surgery on the same shoulder. He is 24.
Third time.
 

Wondercarrot

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Unfortunately I know for a fact about his shoulder. It will never be 100 percent. He has to get used to it being this uncomfortable. He wasn't taking contact and now he hurt it again. This isn't isolated this is his 4th surgery on the same shoulder. He is 24.

Like you know for a fact that his shoulder is f***ed from inside knowledge, or you know based on having 3 surgeries by 24?
 

Senator Stanley

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Yes correct I heard that he also said its a tough long road and they will support him. But what do you think he is going to say? Josh won't be the same player again but we hope he can contribute? In the event they trade him the assets is diminished greatly if he says different. Fact of the matter is he will never be the same. Even before this most recent injury he wasn't going to be. So instead of fantasizing about something that isn't going to happen I don't think they should trade Joseph to make room for a player that will never be the same and likely barely play before he gets hurt again.

I just wondered if there are any examples like Norris. If he comes back gets hurt again what's the protocol? Can a player be permanently LTIR'd? Or what if he does this rehab and can't actually pass a physical? What happens for the sens and the rest of the duration of his contract?

Haven't we seen this with guys like Johan Franzen, Oscar Klefbom and Shea Weber? I assume what happens is the guy reaches a point where the doctors won't medically clear him to return to professional hockey, and so he's basically on LTIR for the remainder of the contract.

Here's an article on the cap implications: How the Edmonton Oilers will use the long-term injured reserve to reach cap compliancy

And here's an article on why relying on LTIR isn't ideal: Moving Klefbom’s Contract Would Provide More Cap Savings Than Putting Him on LTIR
 
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Mookie McGee

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On the positive thinking side, we traded Martin Havlat away years ago thinking his shoulder was toast, and he went on to have 3 more 20+ goal seasons in the league,
 

Golden_Jet

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Haven't we seen this with guys like Johan Franzen, Oscar Klefbom and Shea Weber? I assume what happens is the guy reaches a point where the doctors won't medically clear him to return to professional hockey, and so he's basically on LTIR for the remainder of the contract.
Also Pinto had the same surgeon as Tarasenko had. Who had 3 surgeries on same shoulder in 2 1/2 years.
 

Micklebot

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Haven't we seen this with guys like Johan Franzen, Oscar Klefbom and Shea Weber? I assume what happens is the guy reaches a point where the doctors won't medically clear him to return to professional hockey, and so he's basically on LTIR for the remainder of the contract.

Klefbom was the only one young enough to be in a position where they'd really be motivated to keep it going, Franzen was 36 and so was Weber.

If you're 36. need to get surgery to play another season, and even then there's no guarantee you'll be gtg, and another injury might have lifelong impact on your quality of life, hanging them up seems really appealing,
 

bicboi64

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Dorion left such a mess with the lack of assets, quality depth, and draft capital that it would take a miracle for Staios to fix the team in one off season
 
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2CHAINZ

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Dorion left such a mess with the lack of assets, quality depth, and draft capital that it would take a miracle for Staios to fix the team in one off season
Staois has been awful so far. Not sure how people can blame Dorion for these terrible trades and signings.

I wish we hired a good general manager, seeing Staois in action makes me have 0 faith in his coaching hire as well.
 
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