Unpopular opinions

[VanIslander]

Brad McCrimmon was underrated.

Gospel hereabouts.

Psst... Yushkevich and Beauchemin were better.

 

[VanIslander]

By all historical accounts (book, not 'net): Hitchman, too.

Probably Boivin.

 

[JackSlater]

Agree with you about Brodeur.

Not about Lidstrom.



Serge Savard was overrated.

Brad McCrimmon was underrated.

I really like Savard's game. Some defencemen are excellent defensively, some are just defencemen who play on excellent defensive teams, I'd firmly put Savard in the former category. I do think that McCrimmon was/is underappreciated though. Excellent player, and a strangely forgotten part of Calgary's Stanley Cup winner.

 

[MadLuke]

Absolutely not joking about goaltenders needing to be the best skaters on the team - noting that there's a distinction between "best" and "fastest", but if I'm beating a skater in the ladder drill while wearing full goalie gear, they needed to work harder and get better.

Well, to be fair to them, they are maybe competing against the best skater of their age group of the city.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Well, to be fair to them, they are maybe competing against the best skater of their age group of the city.

I think I've figured out the issue here. To be clear, I was speaking tongue-in-cheek when I said that everyone wanted to be a goalie growing up.

Everything about skating ability has been 100% my true opinion.

 

[MadLuke]

Now a days it seems like everyone is always injured

Could be a false impression because of how much stars were injured in the 90s or how much Montreal players got injured in the 90s, but I am not so sure injury are higher now.

The rate for games was much higher and increased over the three periods studied: 54 injuries per 1000 player-hours in the 1976-1979 seasons, 55 injuries per 1000 player-hours in the 1988-1989 season, and 83 injuries per 1000 player-hours in the 1992-1993 season.

From Bure, Forsberg, Lindros, Kariya to Lafontaine, how much the 90s were rought regarding injury to stars player has been talked about a lot.

On montreal, Koivu-Corson-Brunet-Savage-Brisebois, well about everyone outside Recchi felt like they were injured all the time. Malakhov did not even felt specially injury ptron that era and he played 61-65-74-62 games, only 14 in 2000.

Everything about skating ability has been 100% my true opinion.

Just to be sure it is some, do not put your worst player in goal, your goaltender need to be really good at skating and need to train really hard at it, that you are saying. You are saying that Bobby Orr teams and coaches growing up, were making a mistake because they were incompetent to not put Bobby Orr in net ? His team would have won more. (we can imagine that a lot of nhler were the best skaters of their teams at some point and just lucky to have bad coaches ?)

 

[jigglysquishy]

The demand for goalies is higher at every level of hockey than the supply. In men's rec leagues it's so bad that you usually end up paying the goalie's fees.

I get it. I played goalie for a year as a kid and I didn't like it. So you don't put a kid at goal, you're stuck with who is willing to do it. The learning curve is high so you spend a season getting lit up. You spend the game by yourself while all your friends goof off on the bench. You go to a goalie camp with kids you don't know instead of your friends. And it really really sucks having an awful game when you're a kid. It's not like you have a backup goalie to take you out or the emotional maturity to handle getting scored on 7 times.

That's not even getting into the cost side of things, where kids who might want to play goal get locked out.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Just to be sure it is some, do not put your worst player in goal, your goaltender need to be really good at skating and need to train really hard at it, that you are saying. You are saying that Bobby Orr teams and coaches growing up, were making a mistake because they were incompetent to not put Bobby Orr in net ? His team would have won more. (we can imagine that a lot of nhler were the best skaters of their teams at some point and just lucky to have bad coaches ?)

I guess I need an additional clarification here.

If you're using a single ability (such as "always put the best skater here") as an absolute to do anything in hockey, then you're going to fail.

"Your goalie needs to be your best skater" is a generalism.

Another clarification that I guess needs stating: the term "skating" comprises a variety of abilities, some of which Bobby Orr may be better in than others.

 

[MadLuke]

"Your goalie needs to be your best skater" is a generalism.

Yes that what I thought, saying some extreme like breakfast is the more important meal type. Full of some truth but not really and because you know that being good at skating being important would be a given for the other positions.

If Orr/McDavid/Crosby/Coffey was not what we have in mind by best skaters on their teams, if we have in mind by best skater best at doing quick short lateral move like a goaltender do, I feel that just abusing the language for shock.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I don't appreciate anyone assigning pro-goalie sentiment to me haha. I primarily favored defensemen. If I ever held a goalie tryout, the sign out front would resemble that of what's on the Statue of Liberty...

"Give me your fat and smelly...your tired and stupid..." or whatever it says...

 

[Ishdul]

Not sure if unpopular opinion but players are much weaker & fragile today than they were during the 90's.

Was watching Don cherry highlights yesterday night and players would get SMOKED and get up as if nothing happened. They were bigger, tougher, meaner and their bodies were far more durable than hockey players today. Now a days it seems like everyone is always injured

Could also be a testosterone thing. I've seen some studies how men in their 60's from 20-30 years ago had more testosterone than young men in their 20's today. Absolutely wild to think about.....

I would say the exact opposite for durability. These days I feel like all the main stars seem to be as healthy as they've ever been. I don't have a lot of go-to examples of "injury prone" players these days, it's guys who are missing a bit of time every so often instead of guys who's careers seem threatened. Guys like Crosby Malkin, Letang, Kane, Stamkos, Kucherov, Bergeron and Karlsson had their injury problems but have all able to bounce back from them and are all having pretty long careers all things considerer. Crosby looked like he was going to be concussed out of the league in the early 2010's and now he's going to cross 1300 games. For younger guys it's like... Eichel? Jack Hughes? Makar? Compare that with the 90's where you had Lindros, Forsberg, Bure, Kariya, LaFontaine, Neely, etc.; players with careers that were just destroyed by injuries in a very direct way.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Not really an opinion per se.. but I am a little skeptical of whether Florida’s infamous 2003 draft pick of Ovechkin was truly motivated by the dubious “leap year” theory… it makes more sense to me that they bought into a rumor that he might be older than the date listed on his birth certificate, and that if evidence of his “true” birthdate surfaced, they would then be entitled to his rights..

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

The saying if Wayne Gretzky could get traded anyone can get traded is wrong. Imo it's because people use it in a context of management didn't think he was worth it or his ego was huge or the teams future was bigger than him or his on ice performance declined. I hate that.

It's pretty obvious that Gretzky was traded for nothing more than economic and financial reasons. The Oilers had almost no money and knew they would lose him for nothing. It was also stated that after the 3rd cup in 87 many of the top players felt they were being under paid but in a small market and a no cap league ownership couldn't afford them. Had a cap existed or the team played in a bigger market that team would have been contenders into the mid 90s.
My other out of left field theory with all of this was what was going on in Detroit at the time too. Once Illitch took over he had no issue pouring money into the Wings and I do wonder if what Steve Yzerman was making at the time was used as a measuring stick for players like Gretzky Messier, and Coffey

 

[The Panther]

...I do wonder if what Steve Yzerman was making at the time was used as a measuring stick for players like Gretzky Messier, and Coffey

Oh, sure. I don't know about Yzerman specifically, but Coffey for example was comparing his own salary in 1986-87 to Ray Bourque's, and doing so publicly. Going by memory here (someone can correct me), I think in 1986-87 Coffey was making around $350,000 and Bourque was making around $650,000. Coffey said to the press that he was pissed about this (which is understandable, given he'd just won back-to-back Norris trophies).

Pocklington is the biggest dick in the whole Gretzky-trade fiasco to be sure, but Gretzky didn't come out of it smelling well, either. He could have been much more open about the financial incentive in renegotiating his contract, and about that aspect of his decision to leave Edmonton.

Gretzky in the late-70s through the whole 80s in some ways was (sad to say) comparable to black musicians of the jazz age, whose philosophy was to attach themselves to a rich white guy who would manage them and protect them from racial abuse (even while they knew said manager was ripping them off -- that was a price they were willing to pay). Gretzky's whole thing was to get a rich entrepreneur (Skalbania, Pocklington, McNall) to protect and make him feel special. I think this was why he was so offended by Pocklington's shopping him behind his back, and why he was so attracted to McNall's 'Sugar Daddy' Dickensian persona.

 

[JackSlater]

Pocklington is the biggest dick in the whole Gretzky-trade fiasco to be sure, but Gretzky didn't come out of it smelling well, either. He could have been much more open about the financial incentive in renegotiating his contract, and about that aspect of his decision to leave Edmonton.

Gretzky in the late-70s through the whole 80s in some ways was (sad to say) comparable to black musicians of the jazz age, whose philosophy was to attach themselves to a rich white guy who would manage them and protect them from racial abuse (even while they knew said manager was ripping them off -- that was a price they were willing to pay). Gretzky's whole thing was to get a rich entrepreneur (Skalbania, Pocklington, McNall) to protect and make him feel special. I think this was why he was so offended by Pocklington's shopping him behind his back, and why he was so attracted to McNall's 'Sugar Daddy' Dickensian persona.

The whole financial situation surrounding Gretzky in the 1980s (late 1970s too) is interesting. I'd be interested in any book that goes into this in some detail. Of the big four, for whatever reason Lemieux seems to have been the one with the best financial sense by far, or at least the one who took control of his own situation the most.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Individual statistics only matter AFTER you've won a Cup. Otherwise it's just stat padding to me, you play to win a Cup, not score a bunch of meaningless goals/points.

Ovechkin's goal record chase means more because his legacy is solidified with the Cup. Otherwise, it would be a weird bitter taste IMHO.

 

[Professor What]

Individual statistics only matter AFTER you've won a Cup. Otherwise it's just stat padding to me, you play to win a Cup, not score a bunch of meaningless goals/points.

Ovechkin's goal record chase means more because his legacy is solidified with the Cup. Otherwise, it would be a weird bitter taste IMHO.

See, I don't understand comments like this. We might as well not celebrate any season that doesn't end with a Cup. Wayne Gretzky's 215 point season counted for nothing because the Habs won the Cup that year. We might as well not celebrate Marcel Dionne at all.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

See, I don't understand comments like this. We might as well not celebrate any season that doesn't end with a Cup. Wayne Gretzky's 215 point season counted for nothing because the Habs won the Cup that year. We might as well not celebrate Marcel Dionne at all.

You didn't understand what I said. Once you've won a Cup, then we can celebrate your individual statistics/accomplishments. Gretzky had already won a Cup when he put up 215 points. Until you win one, I don't care much for the overhype about certain players.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Now we can truly celebrate Chris Dingman’s penalty minute totals.

 

[Professor What]

You didn't understand what I said. Once you've won a Cup, then we can celebrate your individual statistics/accomplishments. Gretzky had already won a Cup when he put up 215 points. Until you win one, I don't care much for the overhype about certain players.

Okay, you can say that, but why do we celebrate Dionne? Why is he considered one of the top centers in the history of the game? Why is he in the Hall of Fame? Why is the same true of Dale Hawerchuk. Yes, in any given season, the ultimate goal is to win the Cup, and nothing might shine as much, but the fact is, the overwhelming majority of players are going to fail each year, and for some of them, the pieces never fall into place, and it can be to no fault of their own.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Okay, you can say that, but why do we celebrate Dionne? Why is he considered one of the top centers in the history of the game? Why is he in the Hall of Fame? Why is the same true of Dale Hawerchuk. Yes, in any given season, the ultimate goal is to win the Cup, and nothing might shine as much, but the fact is, the overwhelming majority of players are going to fail each year, and for some of them, the pieces never fall into place, and it can be to no fault of their own.

I posted an unpopular opinion in the Unpopular Opinions thread lol.

 

[Professor What]

I posted an unpopular opinion in the Unpopular Opinions thread lol.

I understand that, but this whole thread has been people giving unpopular opinions and then people discussing them. If you drop the opinion, it's quite likely that someone will have something to say about it.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I understand that, but this whole thread has been people giving unpopular opinions and then people discussing them. If you drop the opinion, it's quite likely that someone will have something to say about it.

Ok cool. I stand by my opinion, Championships (or Cups as we say in this sport) matter in all of sports. Until you have one, then the regular season stat padding just doesn't matter as much to me. It's still cool, sure, but Cups matter more.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Who in the world is saying that championships don’t matter?

 

[MadLuke]

yes you take all criticism of your opinion as following the thread and silence like maybe it is not really unpopular.,