Unpopular opinion

[Miller Time]

I didn’t edit anything out.

You realize you can scroll up and see that this is not true lol

It’s remarkable how badly you mangled my simple argument because you thought you had a point. Spectacular even.

I simply replied to your posts. That you didn't mean what you wrote is a you issue.

But glad we then agree that intangibles & leadership in the room are indeed important elements & arguments suggesting otherwise are specious at best

Kudos to you for course correcting

 

[ReHabs]

You realize you can scroll up and see that this is not true lol

As far as I can see none of my comments in this chain have any indication of having been edited. Because they were not edited.

You make strange comments and even stranger arguments.

But glad we then agree that intangibles & leadership in the room are indeed important elements & arguments suggesting otherwise are specious at best

Once again: I did not say otherwise in the OP, it's spectacular how badly you misunderstood my comments on Matheson and spouted off.

What is called "Intangibles" are definitely a part of the overall value of a player to the team for which he plays, but they're also part of the value he has for a team looking to acquire him. Saying that a certain player shouldn't be dealt because he's got intangibles is like saying a player shouldn't be dealt because he's a good hockey player. Now that Bergevin isn't a GM, NHL teams aren't in the business of giving top dollar for bad hockey players. You give to get, and that means giving away players with intangibles in order to get something back you want (more).

I don't think the Habs need to trade Matheson because what would come in exchange is far from likely to be worth what is being dealt way, and yes that includes Matheson's intangibles.

 

[Rapala]

This is the right answer imo. We know this is his peak, and he won't be a consistent 60 point dman in his 30s.
Friend at work asked if we would like Petry back because he is garrrtbage.

No thank you

This is exactly opposite of Markov when we traded away a replacement. We have so many prospects for D and LD in particular. It's our strongest place. Get help where we need it or for a pick and prospect that replaces him in a few years when we have to move a different dman because of cap. Or other youngster looking for a huge payday.

I don't ever want to be stuck in cap hell because we have no prospect, no picks, and still have a full cap piece of crap team. It felt like that for most of Bergen in era. Rarely made the smart trade. Resign of pleks twice was a mistake and then repeats it with other players.

I certainly wouldn't get in a huff when a team who finished last, 5th from the bottom and 5th from the bottom three consecutive years running decides to move a player like Matheson. Particularly if we think he is at his peak value but we would need a top pairing RD to play with Kaiden Guhle beforehand.
We will be holding on to Matheson as long as his role remains Top Pairing Dman.

Depending on what we do with Lane Hutson Matheson's value won't waiver until Hutson takes on that PP1 role. My guess is most GM's don't view Mike Matheson as a reliable top pairing guy anyway so I really don't know how that might affect his eventual return. His greatest value would probably come from a team trying to get increased production out of their young stars while not really caring about standings.

Sounds Familiar Eh.

 

[SOLR]

I said that Montreal would need to find someone to take Matheson's minutes if they were to trade him and that they can't do that internally yet. You said that's false. Hutson playing PP1 doesn't replace Matheson in the slightest, as he was one of the most used players in the NHL on the PK (5th most) and ES (22nd).

People can fairly criticize Matheson's play, but his usage was insane this season.

Yes it does. Collectively.

Guhle replaces 5v5 minutes with Reinbacher stepping in simultaneously for the PK.
Hutson replaces the PP minutes.

Done.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Yes it does. Collectively.

Guhle replaces 5v5 minutes with Reinbacher stepping in simultaneously for the PK.
Hutson replaces the PP minutes.

Done.

Guhle's numbers are mostly contemporaneous to Matheson's 5v5. Reinbacher may not even be NHL ready and he hasn't really played much PK at any level. Neither replaces Matheson.

I don't really care if the plan is to shift to more of a tear down and finish worse than last season, but it doesn't sound like that's the plan. If the plan is to improve, you either need to keep Matheson or find someone externally to replace him.

 

[SOLR]

Guhle's numbers are mostly contemporaneous to Matheson's 5v5. Reinbacher may not even be NHL ready and he hasn't really played much PK at any level. Neither replaces Matheson.

I don't really care if the plan is to shift to more of a tear down and finish worse than last season, but it doesn't sound like that's the plan. If the plan is to improve, you either need to keep Matheson or find someone externally to replace him.

Yeah trade him for a great RD while Reinbacher develops. That's the very short term.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Those comparing MAB to MM have never actually seen MAB play. Matheson is much better both offensively and defensively. Also, people need to begrudgingly accept that it is nearly impossible to be successful without some veterans, even if overpaid (and MM is certainly not that). Players like Armia, Gallagher, and even Anderson can be useful in the playoffs. It's a feature of the salary cap era that teams will overpay aging players, not a bug, and yet it's almost impossible to get around this problem without giving up on players in their primes. Huberdeau is an extreme case of this problem, but Nylander may trend in this direction at some point. It's simply not possible to build a team of 26 years olds with everyone in their primes. If you trade MM for prospect, how does that help the team make the playoffs in the years to come? And then when the prospect is ready to contribute at MMs level, Suzuki is hitting 30, and he becomes the guy you trade?

Evaluating when a team is ready to be competitive in this stupid era of mediocrity is not an exact science, but Hughes seems to be doing a great job with trades for Newhook and Dach, who immediately fit into the lineup in the right age group. I'm not willing to waste more years of my life on earth to not start pushing the accelerator and trying to reach the playoffs. Those advocating for MM trade need to explain how the complete picture will come together, at some point, towards a competitive team, while capitalizing on Suzuki's peak years. The question of when the team will be "competitive" keeps getting pushed forward year after year. If you look at threads from 2019, we would be competitive in 2022-2023. Now it's 2026-2027?

Time to push the accelerator, not get in the slow lane.

 

[Habs]

Unpopular opinion - I love all our off-season squabbles, bickering and hair pulling, it reminds me we are family and only happy when a little dysfunctional

 

[Redux91]

Unpopular opinion - I love all our off-season squabbles, bickering and hair pulling, it reminds me we are family and only happy when a little dysfunctional

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Don't worry guys, in 2027 we will have the trade Guhle thread for new shiny toy that has played 2 NHL games. The cycle continues. I look forward to seeing you all there.

 

[SOLR]

Unpopular opinion - I love all our off-season squabbles, bickering and hair pulling, it reminds me we are family and only happy when a little dysfunctional

Squabbles, bickering and hair pulling is the functional, that's how we get the sauce in the pasta.

 

[CHwest]

Those comparing MAB to MM have never actually seen MAB play. Matheson is much better both offensively and defensively. Also, people need to begrudgingly accept that it is nearly impossible to be successful without some veterans, even if overpaid (and MM is certainly not that). Players like Armia, Gallagher, and even Anderson can be useful in the playoffs. It's a feature of the salary cap era that teams will overpay aging players, not a bug, and yet it's almost impossible to get around this problem without giving up on players in their primes. Huberdeau is an extreme case of this problem, but Nylander may trend in this direction at some point. It's simply not possible to build a team of 26 years olds with everyone in their primes. If you trade MM for prospect, how does that help the team make the playoffs in the years to come? And then when the prospect is ready to contribute at MMs level, Suzuki is hitting 30, and he becomes the guy you trade?

Evaluating when a team is ready to be competitive in this stupid era of mediocrity is not an exact science, but Hughes seems to be doing a great job with trades for Newhook and Dach, who immediately fit into the lineup in the right age group. I'm not willing to waste more years of my life on earth to not start pushing the accelerator and trying to reach the playoffs. Those advocating for MM trade need to explain how the complete picture will come together, at some point, towards a competitive team, while capitalizing on Suzuki's peak years. The question of when the team will be "competitive" keeps getting pushed forward year after year. If you look at threads from 2019, we would be competitive in 2022-2023. Now it's 2026-2027?

Time to push the accelerator, not get in the slow lane.

Some want to make the playoffs, some want to win the cup. Two totally different things and they require different approaches.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Some want to make the playoffs, some want to win the cup. Two totally different things and they require different approaches.

What was the Vegas formula in your opinion?

 

[Habs]

What was the Vegas formula in your opinion?

1. Circumvent the cap
2. Big mobile teams
3. Goto 1

 

[Frankenheimer]

1. Circumvent the cap
2. Big mobile teams
3. Goto 1

They went to finals in year 1 without any legit stars or having developed players.

 

[MasterD]

They went to finals in year 1 without any legit stars or having developed players.

How is that in any way shape or form either a confirmation or rebuttal to the post you quoted?

100% unrelated.

 

[Frankenheimer]

How is that in any way shape or form either a confirmation or rebuttal to the post you quoted?

100% unrelated.

Yes, it's related, you just don't see it.

 

[Rapala]

They went to finals in year 1 without any legit stars or having developed players.

I've been preaching this ever since that are we heading in the right direction thread was started.
The very first thing on the road to recovery is to fill all our holes with a balanced roster ready group.
We are still missing a number 1 RD a couple of high end middle 6 wingers and viable role players in our bottom 6.
Once those holes are filled we should be a playoff team ready to start tweaking higher up or cheating or doing whatever it takes to get to the next level.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

My unpopular opinion is that Jacques Martin was the best coach we've had in the past 30 years by a wide margin.

 

[rik schau]

I can see Guhle being part of a package to get a top forward. As much as I like him I don't see him getting much PP time with Matheson here and Hutson on the verge of earning time.

 

[MasterD]

My unpopular opinion is that Jacques Martin was the best coach we've had in the past 30 years by a wide margin.

I don't see how that can be unpopular. The only other who someone could really make a case for is Claude Julien, who's had success in his career.

Maybe Vigneault, but he was very green when he was here, he found success later.

St-Louis has potential, but can't be called the best right now.