Uh Oh. Matt Murray Leaves Practice LTIR'd (injury discussion)

[Tak7]

Haha, man. Tampa has been doing this for years. Vegas has as well. It’s a cap circumvention move

Tampa have either placed established stars on LTIR, or acquired contracts for injured players who won't be playing in the NHL again.

Matt Murray does not represent either of those 2 scenarios.

 

[deprw]

It is interesting angle to think that we in purpose pushed our roster near cap ceiling, because there is always few injuries, so you can carry bit extra cap by using LTIR with those injuries.

 

[francis246]

Tampa have either placed established stars on LTIR, or acquired contracts for injured players who won't be playing in the NHL again.

Matt Murray does not represent either of those 2 scenarios.

What are we arguing here? All I’m saying is the leafs took advantage of a shitty situation. I don’t think they planned for it, I don’t think they wanted it to happen. But once it did( they put him on LTIR so fast. If it was a day after I’d understand but you’re telling me they determined in 2 hours he was out for a month?

It went from a tweak to he still might play to ltir. That screams fishy. They def put him on LTIR to maximize cap space. Which was a smart decision and I’m sure they had to make that decision fast

 

[kevsh]

I have a feeling the Murray injuries are going to be a theme this year...kind of like Mrazek last year.

Funny thing is, almost everyone said the same thing when Dubas traded for Murray. At best it was seen as a risky move for what was/could still be a quality starting goalie who spends way too much time injured.

For Dubas, Murray's inevitable injury isn't helping his case for an extension. Instead of finding a goalie that can at least play and with a lower cap hit, or even a shorter term, he took a big gamble and it's gone exactly how it was expected to go.

And one would have thought he'd learned his lesson with Mrazek but nope, in a year with so much riding on this franchise, with a potential Matthews extension upcoming and his own job on the line, Kyle made another really bad decision.

Now, to show I have no malice towards Dubas I think all of us Leafs fans hope Samsonov can handle the starting role and looks great to let Dubas off the hook, at least somewhat. Otherwise, Kyle should probably get the hook, sooner rather than later.

 

[Tak7]

What are we arguing here? All I’m saying is the leafs took advantage of a shitty situation. I don’t think they planned for it, I don’t think they wanted it to happen. But once it did( they put him on LTIR so fast. If it was a day after I’d understand but you’re telling me they determined in 2 hours he was out for a month?

I said at the time, that the fact they only took a few hours to throw him on LTIR, suggested it wasn't a minor injury.

4 weeks minimum isn't a minor injury. I don't think the Leafs took advantage of an opportunity - I think their starting goalie got hurt for a month or longer, and they knew right away it wasn't going to be short term.

 

[hotpaws]

What are we arguing here? All I’m saying is the leafs took advantage of a shitty situation. I don’t think they planned for it, I don’t think they wanted it to happen. But once it did( they put him on LTIR so fast. If it was a day after I’d understand but you’re telling me they determined in 2 hours he was out for a month?

It went from a tweak to he still might play to ltir. That screams fishy. They def put him on LTIR to maximize cap space. Which was a smart decision and I’m sure they had to make that decision fast

this may be more of a mental issue rather than a physical one

 

[Carltons Cup]

Not much different on offence from last season to this....

Winning is winning



Signed him... Really?

Traded. Sorry my mistake. Still doesn't matter.

I think you need to get your story straight before you go on a rant. Complete stupidity.

Dubas didn't sign Murray.

Sorry. He traded for him. Same difference.

 

[Tarmore]

Traded. Sorry my mistake. Still doesn't matter.

Lol ok. But signing as a UFA vs trading is a huge difference IMO

 

[Carltons Cup]

Lol ok. But signing as a UFA vs trading is a huge difference IMO

Regardless, Murray occupies a seat beside Joffrey Lupul.

 

[Tarmore]

Regardless, Murray occupies a seat beside Joffrey Lupul.

I know what your are trying to imply here. You are too early on that call.

On another level you are so wrong. Loops hasn't been on the LTIR for years. I kinda think I read he retired some time ago actually.

 

[DueDiligence]

It went from a tweak to he still might play to ltir. That screams fishy. They def put him on LTIR to maximize cap space. Which was a smart decision and I’m sure they had to make that decision fast

If Samsonov gets injured or craps the bed in the next week or so it won't be such a smart move.

 

[GoonieFace]

I’m curious if Dubas’ backup plan in case of Murray getting injured when he traded for him was always Samsonov. He became available a few hours before the trade, but Dubas and Dorion had been talking well before then. Did he somehow know in advance that Samsonov would be available? Maybe he was waiting to see if Samsonov would be qualified or not before pulling the trigger on the deal. Or, he got lucky that Ilya happened to not get qualified. Though I suppose it’s not out of the realm of possibility that, like Edmonton with Campbell, they were talking before they were allowed to and knew Washington had no plans to bring Ilya back.

Either way, just glad to have a competent goaltender to take the reigns for now.

Competent? It’s been 2 games against fairly bad teams. Let’s not anoint Samsonov just yet.

 

[francis246]

I said at the time, that the fact they only took a few hours to throw him on LTIR, suggested it wasn't a minor injury.

4 weeks minimum isn't a minor injury. I don't think the Leafs took advantage of an opportunity - I think their starting goalie got hurt for a month or longer, and they knew right away it wasn't going to be short term.

Idk about you, but you don’t get diagnosed in 2 hours. An MRI can take up to an hour or more depending on the area, then you need a physical examination. A groin injury isn’t structural like a broken leg, or broken orbital where you know on impact that it’s a long term injury.

With soft tissue injuries or injuries like a groin pull you’re not going to make diagnosis in two hours. You need to run a variety of tests, see if the soreness or tenderness subsides the next day. (hence why the leafs haven’t even come out and said what the injury is).

Also given the amount of insiders speaking out saying they are shocked he was put on LTIR based on reports that he was potentially good to still play later that day suggests, the leafs made the decision let’s play it safe. Let’s just LTIR him and also get some cap relief and allow us more time to decide what moves we need to make.

Additionally Matt Murray pulled a similar move when he was in Ottawa and they were about to play Pittsburgh, somehow he magically got injured in the morning skate. I’d bet a lot of money this is minor.

If Samsonov gets injured or craps the bed in the next week or so it won't be such a smart move.

Agreed. I assume the leafs will make a goalie claim on the next waiver eligible goalie

 

[Tak7]

Idk about you, but you don’t get diagnosed in 2 hours.

You do if it's an injury you know is bad right away, which is what I speculated was the case on Saturday. It might not be a 100% certain diagnosis, but surely bad enough to know he's going to be shelved for several weeks.

Not only did that look like a goalie coming off the ice at practice that had a minor injury, but the fact that they LTIR'd him so quickly while the media were still fumbling around with their ATO story, tells the story.

 

[Mess]

Agreed. I assume the leafs will make a goalie claim on the next waiver eligible goalie

FYI: Leafs are at 50 max contracts so they can't claim anyone on waivers. There is no exception to max contract player rule, so Leafs would need to make a trade and deal a player under contract out.

 

[francis246]

You do if it's an injury you know is bad right away, which is what I speculated was the case on Saturday. It might not be a 100% certain diagnosis, but surely bad enough to know he's going to be shelved for several weeks.

Not only did that look like a goalie coming off the ice at practice that had a minor injury, but the fact that they LTIR'd him so quickly while the media were still fumbling around with their ATO story, tells the story.

I think you might the only person who really believes this injury is a 4 week injury. This is 100% a cap move more than injury. Nothing more than the leafs taking advantage of being able to get cap savings and give Murray extra time.

FYI: Leafs are at 50 max contracts so they can't claim anyone on waivers. There is no exception to max player rule, so Leafs would need to make a trade and deal a player under contract out.

Didn’t realize they are at 50. That’s probably why they want to move Simmonds

 

[Tak7]

I think you might the only person who really believes this injury is a 4 week injury. This is 100% a cap move more than injury. Nothing more than the leafs taking advantage of being able to get cap savings and give Murray extra time.

LTIR = 3 weeks minimum. If this was "caution" and giving Murray "extra rest", we should be seeing Murray back on the ice in 3 weeks.

We will not be seeing Matt Murray back on the ice in 3 weeks. Save this message.

 

[francis246]

LTIR = 3 weeks minimum. If this was "caution" and giving Murray "extra rest", we should be seeing Murray back on the ice in 3 weeks.

We will not be seeing Matt Murray back on the ice in 3 weeks. Save this message.

The point is if the leafs were not so tight against the cap Murray would not have been placed on LTIR. That tells you everything you need to know.

 

[andora]

Holy shit.. this thread is insane

 

[Tak7]

The point is if the leafs were not so tight against the cap Murray would not have been placed on LTIR. That tells you everything you need to know.

You don't know this, or have any clue as to whether this is the case or not.

So it doesn't "tell me everything". In fact, it tells me nothing other than "he's actually injured"

 

[darrylsittler27]

I think Murray is toast and Dubas gave up a first for nothing. He just gambles , throws stuff at the wall and hope it sticks.

 

[Tak7]

I think Murray is toast and Dubas gave up a first for nothing. He just gambles , throws stuff at the wall and hope it sticks.

Didn't give up a 1st for Murray

 

[Menzinger]

How far do we have to trade back with our 1st round pick to lose 1 year of Murray?

Feel like we just did this lol.

In all seriousness though, we likely know the price. Will be a 3rd or 4th or something else of equivalent value if worst comes to worst and they look to make a trade for his final year.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Typically the guy that's in the net for for your season opener is the guy you consider to be your starter. If you have multiple examples of teams using their backup over a healthy starter on opening night I'd be interested in seeing them.

Two new goalies is anything but typical. Also, the plan was to start Samsonov and Murray vs their former teams in games 2 and 3, so Murray had to start game 1.

FYI: Leafs are at 50 max contracts so they can't claim anyone on waivers. There is no exception to max contract player rule, so Leafs would need to make a trade and deal a player under contract out.

Then that's what they'd do.

 

[WTFMAN99]

In all seriousness though, we likely know the price. Will be a 3rd or 4th or something else of equivalent value if worst comes to worst and they look to make a trade for his final year.

The last season of his contract he's owed $8M real cash.