GDT: UFC on ESPN: Cannonier vs. Borralho/PFL 9

[MMC]

Massive W for Morales, will start climbing the rankings now

 

[Taytro]

UFC likes to torture Magny, they pretty much job him out to up and coming prospects at this point.

 

[Avs_19]

Crazy impressive by Morales. Perfectly placed and timed elbow to start it.

Morales was a big favourite but Magny is super tough and a good test for up and coming prospects.

 

[CDJ]

both TUF winners look like solid fighters

Loder is 33 but he hasn’t taken a lot of damage and that wrestling is elite. Mairon Santos is super young but looks like a potential top 10 guy when he gets to his prime

 

[Taytro]

Either of these women being in the top 10 is a shame to women's MMA.

 

[MMC]

Jared is finished

 

[Taytro]

Did I hear Cannonier mention a broken arm in the corner?

 

[Taytro]

Great fight so far. Caio proving how tough he his and how good his striking is. Surprised he's not gone for a takedown. Cannonier proving he's not done and deserves his ranking.

 

[Taytro]

What a performance, what a fight. Love to see fights like this get a spotlight. Two guys with something to prove went out to try to prove it. Exceeded my expectations.

I thought it could have been stopped when Cannonier fell backwards, thought he was out and the fall woke him back up. I'd imagine it's Caio by unanimous decision.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I'm glad but a little surprised that wasn't stopped when he slumped like thay

 

[CDJ]

Borralho’s 5th reminded me of Izzy’s 5th against Gastelum. Dudes legit.

 

[Avs_19]

Great fight. Both guys brought it tonight.

Not only do I think it could’ve been stopped when Cannonier fell along the cage towards the end but I would’ve preferred it. Nothing against him but what a finish that would’ve been for Borralho. The slow motion fall after that 1-2.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Sounds funny but I thought the fight should've been stopped when Cannonier fell, but also think it was a good non-stoppage in hindsight. Lol. He looked DONE as he fell, but he intelligently defended himself the rest of the fight, and took fairly minimal damage.

Good win for Borralho, but I'm not quite sold on him yet. He reminds me a bit of Vettori. Both durable, both never been finished, both have about half their wins by decision, both appear to have more power than they do (although Borralho probably has more), both even get kinda bouncy/jittery in their stance at times. I think Vettori's path is about Borralho's ceiling, but time will tell. (And fair enough, Cannonier handily beat Vettori yet lost pretty clearly tonight, so maybe I'm wrong).

 

[CDJ]

Sounds funny but I thought the fight should've been stopped when Cannonier fell, but also think it was a good non-stoppage in hindsight. Lol. He looked DONE as he fell, but he intelligently defended himself the rest of the fight, and took fairly minimal damage.

Good win for Borralho, but I'm not quite sold on him yet. He reminds me a bit of Vettori. Both durable, both never been finished, both have about half their wins by decision, both appear to have more power than they do (although Borralho probably has more), both even get kinda bouncy/jittery in their stance at times. I think Vettori's path is about Borralho's ceiling, but time will tell. (And fair enough, Cannonier handily beat Vettori yet lost pretty clearly tonight, so maybe I'm wrong).

I’m not sure Borralho will ever be champion but imo he is more dangerous than Vettori, I’d like to see them fight at some point though

 

[Taytro]

Sounds funny but I thought the fight should've been stopped when Cannonier fell, but also think it was a good non-stoppage in hindsight. Lol. He looked DONE as he fell, but he intelligently defended himself the rest of the fight, and took fairly minimal damage.

Good win for Borralho, but I'm not quite sold on him yet. He reminds me a bit of Vettori. Both durable, both never been finished, both have about half their wins by decision, both appear to have more power than they do (although Borralho probably has more), both even get kinda bouncy/jittery in their stance at times. I think Vettori's path is about Borralho's ceiling, but time will tell. (And fair enough, Cannonier handily beat Vettori yet lost pretty clearly tonight, so maybe I'm wrong).

I can't really disagree any more with this analysis. I don't think Jared defended himself intelligently on the ground. UFC stats says 22 of 29 significant ground strikes landed in the 3rd. That's 22 significant shots more than he should have eaten because he fell like he was unconscious. Almost all of those came while he used his hands as ear muffs and made no attempts to stand up/improve position. Not that it matters becuase it should have been stopped while he did his best London Bridge impression.

Vettori is an awful comparison. Vettori finished 2 of his 15 UFC fights. 13% finish rate. Borralho finished 3 of 9, 33% finish rate (including contender series), over double Vettori. Borralho also went out last night to PROVE he wasn't just a grappler, and beat a striker in an exciting fight, Marvin doesn't do that. IMO Caio got the knockout last night. He attacks the finish much more than Vettori and just showed he also does it standing. I'd rather watch Borralho fight (win or lose) anyway over Vettori.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

I can't really disagree any more with this analysis. I don't think Jared defended himself intelligently on the ground. UFC stats says 22 of 29 significant ground strikes landed in the 3rd. That's 22 significant shots more than he should have eaten because he fell like he was unconscious. Almost all of those came while he used his hands as ear muffs and made no attempts to stand up/improve position. Not that it matters becuase it should have been stopped while he did his best London Bridge impression.

Vettori is an awful comparison. Vettori finished 2 of his 15 UFC fights. 13% finish rate. Borralho finished 3 of 9, 33% finish rate (including contender series), over double Vettori. Borralho also went out last night to PROVE he wasn't just a grappler, and beat a striker in an exciting fight, Marvin doesn't do that. IMO Caio got the knockout last night. He attacks the finish much more than Vettori and just showed he also does it standing. I'd rather watch Borralho fight (win or lose) anyway over Vettori.

I would just counter this with my assumption from a ref's perspective. They talk to these guys beforehand, I'm sure essentially every one says let me go out on my shield, I'd rather take one too many than you stop the fight early. I also think Dan's thinking to himself, this has been a war, Cannonier at least deserves a chance to say he survived it. There's something to be said for going the distance here vs getting knocked out. Cannonier's a respected vet, he's earned that IMO.

You said it yourself, almost all those strikes came while Cannonier used his hands as earmuffs. That's intelligently defending yourself.

Vettori has finished his opponent in 11 of his 19 wins. Borralho is 9 of 17. Essentially identical. Each has finished only one guy in the UFC with a Wiki page. They're less than a year apart in age. As I mentioned they both sorta do this jittery bounce in southpaw. To say you I couldn't make a worse comparison is a bit unfair. I don't think you could find a closer comparison.

Ironically I think their next fight could be against each other. And just for the record I do think Borralho would be the (rightful) favorite.

 

[Taytro]

I would just counter this with my assumption from a ref's perspective. They talk to these guys beforehand, I'm sure essentially every one says let me go out on my shield, I'd rather take one too many than you stop the fight early. I also think Dan's thinking to himself, this has been a war, Cannonier at least deserves a chance to say he survived it. There's something to be said for going the distance here vs getting knocked out. Cannonier's a respected vet, he's earned that IMO.

You said it yourself, almost all those strikes came while Cannonier used his hands as earmuffs. That's intelligently defending yourself.

Vettori has finished his opponent in 11 of his 19 wins. Borralho is 9 of 17. Essentially identical. Each has finished only one guy in the UFC with a Wiki page. They're less than a year apart in age. As I mentioned they both sorta do this jittery bounce in southpaw. To say you I couldn't make a worse comparison is a bit unfair. I don't think you could find a closer comparison.

Ironically I think their next fight could be against each other. And just for the record I do think Borralho would be the (rightful) favorite.

Again, I think these are all awful takes. No one has earned the right to be knocked out and take more punishment. That defeats the point of a sport if different people are treated differently based on "respect". Gotta call it down the middle, if he would have stopped the fight for a debuting fighter then he should have stopped it for Jared.

Covering up and not moving/improving position or getting up is absolutely NOT intelligently defending yourself. It's actually the exact opposite of it and why we frequently see fights stopped in that exact position.

Taking Vettoris stats from 10 years ago vs what he's done in the UFC is also silly. He's a completely different fighter in the UFC and he can't finish these opponents. Whatever he did in 2013 is irrelevant.

Edit: And you said both guy only has 1 finish in the UFC with a wikipedia page? Caio finished Michał Oleksiejczuk and Paul Craig in the last year and a half? Both have Wikipedia pages so idk where you pulled that junk from.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Again, I think these are all awful takes. No one has earned the right to be knocked out and take more punishment. That defeats the point of a sport if different people are treated differently based on "respect". Gotta call it down the middle, if he would have stopped the fight for a debuting fighter then he should have stopped it for Jared.

Covering up and not moving/improving position or getting up is absolutely NOT intelligently defending yourself. It's actually the exact opposite of it and why we frequently see fights stopped in that exact position.

Taking Vettoris stats from 10 years ago vs what he's done in the UFC is also silly. He's a completely different fighter in the UFC and he can't finish these opponents. Whatever he did in 2013 is irrelevant.

Edit: And you said both guy only has 1 finish in the UFC with a wikipedia page? Caio finished Michał Oleksiejczuk and Paul Craig in the last year and a half? Both have Wikipedia pages so idk where you pulled that junk from.

I get the feeling you're either a Borralho fan, or you dislike Vettori (or perhaps both).

There's a human element to both reffing and judging. Whether we like it or not, it exists. Cannonier's last fight, which was the only time he's ever been finished at 185, was a questionable/controversial stoppage. Dan obviously knew that. It's gonna be human nature to give a Cannonier a bit more rope in this one. You may not like that, but that doesn't change the fact that it's likely to occur.

If there's one universal tactic when defending oneself, it's cover your face. You don't have to be attempting to advance position to defend yourself. But, since that's your criteria, in the eleven seconds following Cannonier's back hitting the canvas, he either postured up and/or reached for Borralho's leg three times. There was also not one punch Borralho threw during that initial eleven seconds where Cannonier wasn't attempting to block. The fall looked horrible, some refs would've stopped it immediately without widespread outrage, but Cannonier intelligently defended himself the entire time, that's not debatable.

Both Vettori and Borralho crushed cans on their respective regional circuits, and have largely been decision machines against better opposition. Borralho fared better against Cannonier, no debate there. But I'd argue beating Costa at LHW is a more impressive win. Vettori has the considerably better resume. Both guys have never been finished, that is a pretty unique similarity. They're more similar than any two fighters at 185. You can not like that statement, but it doesn't make it any less true.

 

[Taytro]

I get the feeling you're either a Borralho fan, or you dislike Vettori (or perhaps both).

There's a human element to both reffing and judging. Whether we like it or not, it exists. Cannonier's last fight, which was the only time he's ever been finished at 185, was a questionable/controversial stoppage. Dan obviously knew that. It's gonna be human nature to give a Cannonier a bit more rope in this one. You may not like that, but that doesn't change the fact that it's likely to occur.

If there's one universal tactic when defending oneself, it's cover your face. You don't have to be attempting to advance position to defend yourself. But, since that's your criteria, in the eleven seconds following Cannonier's back hitting the canvas, he either postured up and/or reached for Borralho's leg three times. There was also not one punch Borralho threw during that initial eleven seconds where Cannonier wasn't attempting to block. The fall looked horrible, some refs would've stopped it immediately without widespread outrage, but Cannonier intelligently defended himself the entire time, that's not debatable.

Both Vettori and Borralho crushed cans on their respective regional circuits, and have largely been decision machines against better opposition. Borralho fared better against Cannonier, no debate there. But I'd argue beating Costa at LHW is a more impressive win. Vettori has the considerably better resume. Both guys have never been finished, that is a pretty unique similarity. They're more similar than any two fighters at 185. You can not like that statement, but it doesn't make it any less true.

Not a fan of either, don't hate them either.

In the unified rules covering up and taking a pounding is not intelligently defending yourself. Also since 22/29 punches landed, it's safe to say he wasn't successfully defending himself either.

Not arguing either guys resume, just saying that they do not fight similarly.

But you're slowly changing your awful takes so, it's fine we can end it here.