GDT: UFC 309: Jones vs. Miocic

[bov]

That was an underwhelming event. I didn't think Jones looked good at all, Stipe basically couldn't even move. Aspinall would have ended that fight within 2 minutes, and I think a number of heavyweights would have finished Stipe much quicker. Jones looked fairly hittable considering his opponent was fighting in slow motion.

At the end of the day, he has nothing left to prove and you can't blame him for picking his spots. It's pretty clear that the best HW in the UFC wasn't in the cage last night. I just hope he doesn't hold the belt hostage.

Oliveira looked pretty good. A rematch vs Makhachev doesn't interest me a ton, but fighting Tsarukyan again would be intriguing. Holloway would be fun for the BMF too.

Nickal has a bit more work to do, I thought he might have put himself in the mix with a dominant performance but he's got a ways to go.

 

[I am not exposed]

That was an underwhelming event. I didn't think Jones looked good at all, Stipe basically couldn't even move. Aspinall would have ended that fight within 2 minutes, and I think a number of heavyweights would have finished Stipe much quicker. Jones looked fairly hittable considering his opponent was fighting in slow motion.

At the end of the day, he has nothing left to prove and you can't blame him for picking his spots. It's pretty clear that the best HW in the UFC wasn't in the cage last night. I just hope he doesn't hold the belt hostage.

Oliveira looked pretty good. A rematch vs Makhachev doesn't interest me a ton, but fighting Tsarukyan again would be intriguing. Holloway would be fun for the BMF too.

Nickal has a bit more work to do, I thought he might have put himself in the mix with a dominant performance but he's got a ways to go.

Out of the top 10 current heavyweights, the two who Stipe would stand a chance against are Tybura and Rozenstruik. Maybe Spivac. Even then I would put these 3 as favourites against current Stipe.

 

[Moncherry]

f*** it, make Pereira vs Jones. It's pretty much the only chance we have left to see him get some brutal comeuppance.

Jones now wants to fight Pereira but it would be a very easy out for Jones. He would just do the same thing he did to Gane. Pereira has no ground game and for some reason all the recent fighters he has faced want to beat him on the feet. That plus favourable matchmaking by the UFC to keep the Pereira hype train running. I guarantee Jones would not just stay standing with Pereira. Even if he promised it. Jones is a piece of ****.

This simply isn't true. Jan tried to wrestle Pereira. Jiri tried to wrestle Pereira. Even Izzy tried to wrestle Pereira. If Pereira is that awful on the ground, he would have been subbed or lost a decision to being wrestled by now. Even if his ground game isn't that good, it's obviously not as easy as people assume to just take him down and keep him there. If Pereira beats Ankalaev, this narrative really needs to be put to rest.

Not necessarily saying Jones couldn't or wouldn't sub him either, but Pereira would be more dangerous for him than people expect.

 

[I am not exposed]

f*** it, make Pereira vs Jones. It's pretty much the only chance we have left to see him get some brutal comeuppance.


This simply isn't true. Jan tried to wrestle Pereira. Jiri tried to wrestle Pereira. Even Izzy tried to wrestle Pereira. If Pereira is that awful on the ground, he would have been subbed or lost a decision to being wrestled by now. Even if his ground game isn't that good, it's obviously not as easy as people assume to just take him down and keep him there. If Pereira beats Ankalaev, this narrative really needs to be put to rest.

Not necessarily saying Jones couldn't or wouldn't sub him either, but Pereira would be more dangerous for him than people expect.

Ankalaev isn't a wrestler either. It goes more to the latter point that he hasn't really been tested against a legitimate wrestler.

 

[Moncherry]

Ankalaev isn't a wrestler either. It goes more to the latter point that he hasn't really been tested against a legitimate wrestler.

Oh gtfo. Ankalaev is frequently called boring because of his tendency to blanket people. The entire reason he's assumed to be dangerous for Pereira is because of his wrestling and grappling. Now he's not a wrestler either? His background is Greco-Roman and Sambo.

This exactly what I mean. There's always these line-ups of "legitimate wrestlers" that kickboxers are supposedly protected against. If they manage to win, it's simply because their opponent chose to not wrestle. Even if they did wrestle, it's because they're not actually a wrestler. It's so tiresome.

 

[I am not exposed]

Oh gtfo. Ankalaev is frequently called boring because of his tendency to blanket people. The entire reason he's assumed to be dangerous for Pereira is because of his wrestling and grappling. Now he's not a wrestler either? His background is Greco-Roman and Sambo.

This exactly what I mean. There's always these line-ups of "legitimate wrestlers" that kickboxers are supposedly protected against. If they manage to win, it's simply because their opponent chose to not wrestle. Even if they did wrestle, it's because they're not actually a wrestler. It's so tiresome.

When you look at his fights in the UFC he mostly uses stand up. Yeah, he could use his wrestling. I hope he does. I think its a good match up and obviously the right fight to make.

Who out of Pereira's opponents would you classify as a legitimate wrestler/threat on the ground?

 

[16Skippy]

who the f*** is this ref.

multiple fence grabs and about 15 shots to the back of the head

I'm pretty sure that's the same ref that Dominic Cruz accused of smelling like beer and cigarettes lol

 

[16Skippy]

I found it hilarious how the commentators were saying shit like Stipe looks stiff...bros he's 50 and hasn't fought in 3 years what were you expecting?

Honestly the best part of the card was either the Oliveria masterclass (until he almost blew it lol) or him snubbing Beavis and Butthead in the front row.

 

[CDJ]

Oh gtfo. Ankalaev is frequently called boring because of his tendency to blanket people. The entire reason he's assumed to be dangerous for Pereira is because of his wrestling and grappling. Now he's not a wrestler either? His background is Greco-Roman and Sambo.

This exactly what I mean. There's always these line-ups of "legitimate wrestlers" that kickboxers are supposedly protected against. If they manage to win, it's simply because their opponent chose to not wrestle. Even if they did wrestle, it's because they're not actually a wrestler. It's so tiresome.

He did that one time against Jan in a high profile situation but Ankalaev is mostly a striker who is very effective but never really steps on the gas. He’s landed more than 1 TD twice in the ufc. In half his fights he’s landed 0. He’ll do it when he feels like he has to but it’s not his go-to

 

[CDJ]

 

[pistolpete11]

That was vintage Jon Jones. Takedown, ground & pound, diverse striking, great defense. I think the diverse striking really confused Stipe. He seemed hesitant to throw because he never knew what was coming back at him and that resulted in him being a sitting duck. Not a ton of HW are capable of throwing spinning back kicks, for example, let alone mixing them in with everything else. He also was able to push Stipe against the cage, so even when Stipe did muster up enough to blitz him, he could easily retreat.

Some of the comments I saw him make in the presser, maybe he's just using Pereira as a negotiation tactic and will end up fighting Aspinall. So maybe there is a hope. On the other hand, saying you want "f*** you money" in the UFC usually ends up in the UFC saying "f*** you". I could see this dragging out for quite some time.

Congrats to Stipe on an incredible career. I still think people underestimate Stipe because he's not some big scary power puncher like Francis or cardo freak like Cain. He doesn't have that one signature trait, but he's still got probably the most impressive HW UFC career of all time (neck and neck with Francis, I'd say). Not being able to beat the GOAT when he's 42 doesn't really change any of that for me.

Big time performance by Oliveira. I guess he's next in line for a title shot, but I'd honestly be more interested in seeing him fight Max. Put the BMF belt on the line if you want.

Had some technical difficulties for the Nickal fight, but it was underwhelming from what I saw.

 

[Taytro]

Some of the comments I saw him make in the presser, maybe he's just using Pereira as a negotiation tactic and will end up fighting Aspinall. So maybe there is a hope. On the other hand, saying you want "f*** you money" in the UFC usually ends up in the UFC saying "f*** you". I could see this dragging out for quite some time.

Yea that comment was just silliness. He'll fight Pereira for his current contract but needs "f*** you money" to fight Tom? Jon's probably already gets "f*** you money" compared to the rest of the roster. Have to imagine he's the highest paid active fighter guy on a fight by fight basis.

I think Tom is good, and clearly the #1 heavyweight, he's beaten 3 out of the top 5 ranked HWs. There's no one else left for Tom to beat that would build his name up anymore to get closer to Jon but Jon wants to fight a guy who fought (and got KOd) at 185 less than 2 years ago? It took Jon 3 years to move from LHW to HW but wants Pereira to go from middleweight to HW in less than 2 years? We already saw what Jon can do vs a kickboxing champion who is the same size as him, and he wants to fight one smaller then him.

I don't think Tom is a world eater by any means and really don't get why Jon won't fight him. I get wanting to pick and choose your fights but this one's blatant. Saying he doesn't want to do it because Tom's an "a$$hole" is silly coming from the guy who said DC looked like a crackhead. I don't know man, I'd hate to see Pereira fight Jon but I know Pereira would take it.

 

[Jugitsu]

Dana still has a such a big boner for Jon, he should just cast aside the businessman in him and pay Jon whatever he asks to make this fight happen.

Jon is extremely delusional about what he deserves.

 

[End of Line]

Dana still has a such a big boner for Jon, he should just cast aside the businessman in him and pay Jon whatever he asks to make this fight happen.

Jon is extremely delusional about what he deserves.

They’re two peas in a pod of awful humans

 

[pistolpete11]

Yea that comment was just silliness. He'll fight Pereira for his current contract but needs "f*** you money" to fight Tom? Jon's probably already gets "f*** you money" compared to the rest of the roster. Have to imagine he's the highest paid active fighter guy on a fight by fight basis.

I think Tom is good, and clearly the #1 heavyweight, he's beaten 3 out of the top 5 ranked HWs. There's no one else left for Tom to beat that would build his name up anymore to get closer to Jon but Jon wants to fight a guy who fought (and got KOd) at 185 less than 2 years ago? It took Jon 3 years to move from LHW to HW but wants Pereira to go from middleweight to HW in less than 2 years? We already saw what Jon can do vs a kickboxing champion who is the same size as him, and he wants to fight one smaller then him.

I don't think Tom is a world eater by any means and really don't get why Jon won't fight him. I get wanting to pick and choose your fights but this one's blatant. Saying he doesn't want to do it because Tom's an "a$$hole" is silly coming from the guy who said DC looked like a crackhead. I don't know man, I'd hate to see Pereira fight Jon but I know Pereira would take it.

I mean, I get it. Minimize risk, maximize reward. It's the toughest fight for him and Aspinall doesn't have the star power of someone like Pereira (not yet anyway).

I don't know if he realizes how bad ducking Apsinall makes him look, though, or if he just doesn't care. If it's just negotiation and he ends up fighting him, fine. Nobody will remember this. If he gives up the belt to fight Pereira? Yikes. That's a bad look for the GOAT. He would have been better off retiring and then coming back in a year if that's what he wanted to do.

And to be clear, Aspinall is the toughest fight for him, but it's still winnable IMO.

 

[Sheppy]

I found it hilarious how the commentators were saying shit like Stipe looks stiff...bros he's 50 and hasn't fought in 3 years what were you expecting?

Honestly the best part of the card was either the Oliveria masterclass (until he almost blew it lol) or him snubbing Beavis and Butthead in the front row.

They did a complete 180 after hyping up the fact that a 3 year layoff was “good for him” a 3 year layoff is never, ever good.

 

[1specter]

I don't know if he realizes how bad ducking Apsinall makes him look, though, or if he just doesn't care.

He is a sociopath, so probably the latter.

 

[1specter]

f*** it, make Pereira vs Jones. It's pretty much the only chance we have left to see him get some brutal comeuppance.


This simply isn't true. Jan tried to wrestle Pereira. Jiri tried to wrestle Pereira. Even Izzy tried to wrestle Pereira. If Pereira is that awful on the ground, he would have been subbed or lost a decision to being wrestled by now. Even if his ground game isn't that good, it's obviously not as easy as people assume to just take him down and keep him there. If Pereira beats Ankalaev, this narrative really needs to be put to rest.

Not necessarily saying Jones couldn't or wouldn't sub him either, but Pereira would be more dangerous for him than people expect.

I will say, although Jon was never in trouble and handled Stipe without issue, his boxing (which was never his strength to begin with) looked pretty bad and if Stipe was even at the level of his 2021 version he could've made it far more competitive. There were moments where Stipe could've had Jon but he was just too stiff/slow to get into his range, and he also had no answer for his kicks plus Jon was just too long for him.

Pereira though is a freak who has a lot of length and is great at managing range, has sharp hands and kicks and has shown repeatedly he just needs to land one good punch / kick. If Jon can't wrestle him down right away and it turns into a kickboxing affair he could be in big trouble.

 

[pistolpete11]

He is a sociopath, so probably the latter.

Maybe. But he also spews a lot of bullshit that a surprising number of people eat up. So he might think most people see it his way and there's just a few people like Luke Thomas who have an axe to grind with him that think he's ducking.

 

[MMC]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1858643634784284746

 

[Avs_19]

Late on this but I have to give a shout out to Stipe. His official retirement has gotten lost in the shuffle with all of the other narratives and news coming out of this event. Admittedly, I haven't been the biggest fan of Stipe in the later stages of career and I was also too busy making jokes as a result.

Looking back at his record, what a run he had. That three year stretch he had from 2015-2018 was incredibly impressive. Six straight wins over Hunt, Arlovski (was on a four fight win streak), Werdum (was on a six fight win streak), Overeem (was on a four fight win streak), JDS, and Francis (was on a six fight win streak and being called MMA's Tyson). Five of those six wins were finishes too. He then lost to DC but came back and won two straight over DC after that.

My feelings on him during and after the DC trilogy aren't going to change just because he's done now. I thought he was acting entitled and certainly didn't deserve this title shot. However, there's no doubt he had a legendary career and is one of the best to do it. All the best to him.

 

[pistolpete11]

Late on this but I have to give a shout out to Stipe. His official retirement has gotten lost in the shuffle with all of the other narratives and news coming out of this event. Admittedly, I haven't been the biggest fan of Stipe in the later stages of career and I was also too busy making jokes as a result.

Looking back at his record, what a run he had. That three year stretch he had from 2015-2018 was incredibly impressive. Six straight wins over Hunt, Arlovski (was on a four fight win streak), Werdum (was on a six fight win streak), Overeem (was on a four fight win streak), JDS, and Francis (was on a six fight win streak and being called MMA's Tyson). Five of those six wins were finishes too. He then lost to DC but came back and won two straight over DC after that.

My feelings on him during and after the DC trilogy aren't going to change just because he's done now. I thought he was acting entitled and certainly didn't deserve this title shot. However, there's no doubt he had a legendary career and is one of the best to do it. All the best to him.

I get why Stipe feeling he was entitled to an immediate rematch rubs people the wrong way, but this was at a time when the UFC was giving out undeserved title shots like they were candy. Cody got an immediate rematch against TJ despite never defending the belt. Romero fought for a belt in 4 of 5 fights despite winning only one of them and missing weight in 2 of them. Bisping defended against #11 or whatever Henderson was ranked and GSP who never fought in the weight class and had been off for 4 years. There were more deserving ones like Aldo, Ronda, and JJ, too.

People were talking about Stipe as the GHWOAT by that point, only HW to defend 3 times, and he did get KO'ed, but the eye poke was pretty bad and could have played a factor (given the hindsight of the 2nd and 3rd fight, I'd argue it did). I don't really remember there being anybody else that deserving at the time either. So I get it from Stipe's point of view, too.