U.S. National Team Thread VI #fireJurgen

[kingsboy11]

Jordan Morris scored 2 goals for Stanford today in the NCAA championship game against Clemson.

 

[DoyleG]

TTFA accepted just US$12,500 for US victory tour games

I can't believe they would accept to play these games and not make sure they would atleast break even.

The USSF was likely hoping for that $200K from the State Tourism Commission to cover that. The USSF is now trying to sue the State of Hawaii for that amount but may get sued by the state as well.

The USSF and the Stadium Authority are both facing class-actions suits from fans for expenses incurred in traveling to the now cancelled game.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Well, maybe next time they'll do their ****ing due diligence.

This is embarrassing for the USSF on many levels.

 

[Brock Anton]

She may have a point (outside the whole 'foreign guys' thing, seriously wtf)... but Wambach talking about egos? That's ****ing rich.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Wambach gets way too much crap. When she retired, her tweet was "Forget me".

People with huge egos don't say that. They hang on and want to be remembered. Her teammates love her and look up to her and emulate her.

And she's right.

 

[Brock Anton]

Wambach gets way too much crap. When she retired, her tweet was "Forget me".

People with huge egos don't say that. They hang on and want to be remembered. Her teammates love her and look up to her and emulate her.

And she's right.

That tweet (and the deleting of her account) is part of a promotion with Gatorade.

And no, she's not right. She may have a point on Klinsmann not doing much to help the youth squads but her whole thing about the 'foreign guys' is just stupid and hypocritical (who is she talking about, the German-Americans? The Mexican-Americans? Mix and Aron? Nagbe? all of them?). They're just as American as Dempsey, Bradley or Howard... not to mention a number of them had American servicemen as fathers. I don't see her having a problem playing on the same team as Sydney Leroux.

 

[Virtanen18]

"Foreign guys"? What the ****? Abby voting for Trump or nah

 

[spintheblackcircle]

I think it's a stupid rule. You should play for the country you were born. Who cares about where your parents were from.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I think it's a stupid rule. You should play for the country you were born. Who cares about where your parents were from.

If you're a kid born to American military personnel stationed in Berlin, you're not German, you're American.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

If you're a kid born to American military personnel stationed in Berlin, you're not German, you're American.

I'm not saying how it IS. I'm saying how it should be.

 

[Ugmo]

Speaking as someone who was born American in a foreign country (England), grew up mainly in the U.S. and has now been living in Europe again for nearly 20 years, I don't consider all those German-Americans to be truly American. Sorry. On paper they're American. Culturally they just aren't. Whether that's positive or negative is a different matter, but there is no question that a Tim Chandler or a Jermaine Jones have a completely different view on what it is to be American than Eddie Lewis or Landon Donovan. Or for that matter Justin Meran or Steven Beitashour or Diego Fagundez or even Gedion Zelalem.

 

[Ugmo]

And no, she's not right. She may have a point on Klinsmann not doing much to help the youth squads but her whole thing about the 'foreign guys' is just stupid and hypocritical (who is she talking about, the German-Americans? The Mexican-Americans? Mix and Aron? Nagbe? all of them?). They're just as American as Dempsey, Bradley or Howard... not to mention a number of them had American servicemen as fathers. I don't see her having a problem playing on the same team as Sydney Leroux.

Disagree. The German-Americans barely even speak English. Mix Diskerud's and Kevin Bacon's impressions of America come from their vacations.

The Mexican Americans and Nagbe at least basically grew up in the U.S. On paper, they're all "just as American" as each other. Culturally there are massive differences.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Who gives a ****? Play the system in place as much as you can and win some ****ing games. That's all that matters.

 

[Ugmo]

Who gives a ****? Play the system in place as much as you can and win some ****ing games. That's all that matters.

Just responding to someone else's post.

Sheesh.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

I wasn't responding to you, just the whole subject. No need to get defensive.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Chicago got a US Copa America game. Ah yeaaaaa

 

[Ugmo]

I wasn't responding to you, just the whole subject. No need to get defensive.

Actually for that matter, let's actually analyze the "who gives a ****?" sentiment. The problem is obviously that Klinsmann is sowing resentment among American players by calling up players who have no business being on the team - like Julian Green - or players who aren't that great - like Tim Chandler - just because they have a German upbringing.

On top of that, there's the issue that the U.S. has traditionally overperformed at soccer due to the American mindset. So it's questionable whether bringing in players who are equal to Americans in skill or only marginally better (again, Tim Chandler) but don't have that mindset, is a good strategy.

Either way, there is obviously some resentment among American players over this issue, so I don't think you can just sweep it under the rug by saying "Who gives a ****?"

 

[Brock Anton]

Actually for that matter, let's actually analyze the "who gives a ****?" sentiment. The problem is obviously that Klinsmann is sowing resentment among American players by calling up players who have no business being on the team - like Julian Green - or players who aren't that great - like Tim Chandler - just because they have a German upbringing.

On top of that, there's the issue that the U.S. has traditionally overperformed at soccer due to the American mindset. So it's questionable whether bringing in players who are equal to Americans in skill or only marginally better (again, Tim Chandler) but don't have that mindset, is a good strategy.

Either way, there is obviously some resentment among American players over this issue, so I don't think you can just sweep it under the rug by saying "Who gives a ****?"

Which players are showing resentment towards Klinsmann for calling up German-Americans? Wambach doesn't count, because she has no clue what goes on inside the MNT locker room and neither does Donovan, because we all know whatever he says about Klinsmann feels more like pushing a narrative more than anything.

What is this 'American mindset'... did Earnie Stewart, Tab Ramos, Thomas Dooley, Jeff Agoos, David Regis etc have it? They weren't 'true Americans', were they? Why does being born and raised in the U.S. matter? Just because Timmy Chandler is an average player with a questionable attitude doesn't mean every player not raised in the U.S. is a flight risk (not to mention that Bradley brought in Chandler not JK, but anyways). You're trying to tell me Jermaine Jones, Mix Diskerud and Terrence Boyd don't care about the national team/country? They're arguably three of the most 'American' guys in the pool.

Listen I know you don't like Klinsmann, and neither do I, but this is literally the last thing you can rag on him for. Bringing in more talent into the pool is never a bad thing. Bora did it, Arena did it, Sampson did it, Bradley did it... why is it a point of reference when Klinsmann does it?

 

[Ugmo]

Jeff Agoos? Agoos grew up in Texas. Tab Ramos more or less grew up in New Jersey. Regis was brought in at the last minute and immediately sowed resentment as a result. Those are some bizarre examples you're using to make your point. Tom Dooley and Ernie Stewart are better examples, but they were brought in at a time when the average U.S.-developed player was awful and the program was in its infancy (and there was no domestic league to develop players).

Jermaine Jones, Mix Diskerud and Terrence Boyd... two of those guys can barely speak English. Doesn't mean they don't care about the team, but how in hell are they three of the most "American" guys on the team? Two of them had barely any contact whatsoever with the one parent who gave them their U.S. citizenship.

I'm far from a xenophobe and I'm far from a flag-waving nationalist. I've been living abroad so long I consider myself to be a human being rather than an American, but to act like all these guys who previously had barely any connection with the U.S. apart from a piece of paper with their name on it are some kind of lion-hearted, red-blooded Americans is silly. They're guys Klinsmann brought in from overseas because because of serendipitous bloodlines, and just because Abby Wambach is the only person who dares to say it in public doesn't mean she's the only American player thinking it. Players should be brought in solely according to what they've accomplished and are capable of, and that automatically rules out a bunch of the players JK has brought in at the expense of numerous domestically based players.

This has little to do with "expanding the talent pool." It's one thing to expand the pool. It's quite another thing to make boneheaded roster decisions based on where players grew up, and Klinsmann appears to have done that on numerous occasions - the most glaring example being when he replaced our best player ever with Julian freaking Green.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

I forgot that speaking English is a requirement for being American.

Way to field an argument that goes against everything this nation stands for.

 

[Ugmo]

I forgot that speaking English is a requirement for being American.

Way to field an argument that goes against everything this nation stands for.

This isn't that ****ing complicated. No one is claiming they're not officially Americans.

 

[Virtanen18]

Players should be selected based on their talent level, not how patriotic they are to America. If there's an eligible player to play for the US with talent, it would be foolish for Jurgen to not bring him in. Disagree with this player or that player being selected? Sure. But Wambach lumping them all together as "foreign guys" and saying she doesn't think they should be on the team is beyond stupid.

 

[Ugmo]

I agree that those are very poor examples for Wambach to use because those are two of the German-Americans who have legitimately strengthened the team.

 

[cutchemist42]

Actually for that matter, let's actually analyze the "who gives a ****?" sentiment. The problem is obviously that Klinsmann is sowing resentment among American players by calling up players who have no business being on the team - like Julian Green - or players who aren't that great - like Tim Chandler - just because they have a German upbringing.

On top of that, there's the issue that the U.S. has traditionally overperformed at soccer due to the American mindset. So it's questionable whether bringing in players who are equal to Americans in skill or only marginally better (again, Tim Chandler) but don't have that mindset, is a good strategy.

Either way, there is obviously some resentment among American players over this issue, so I don't think you can just sweep it under the rug by saying "Who gives a ****?"

Yeah Im agreeing with this. I mean, Landon has said similar stuff too before IIRC, and I bet this mindset exists amongst the various programs. Unless the German-American is clearly better, why have the hard-on for the German upbringing if you can get something similar from the American raised player?

Also, still like the IIHF's rules more on this stuff last I read them and contrasted them.

 

[Brock Anton]

Jeff Agoos? Agoos grew up in Texas. Tab Ramos more or less grew up in New Jersey. Regis was brought in at the last minute and immediately sowed resentment as a result. Those are some bizarre examples you're using to make your point. Tom Dooley and Ernie Stewart are better examples, but they were brought in at a time when the average U.S.-developed player was awful and the program was in its infancy (and there was no domestic league to develop players).

So what constitutes someone being an American? Do they have to live here for a fixed time? Sorry about Agoos, that was an awful example, but besides him all of those players were born outside the U.S. to either one or less American parent. Yeah, players showed resentment towards Regis in 1998 because he was foreign and that he was 'taking their job' (you could also make the same argument on him that you did on Stewart/Dooley) but don't remember any resentment towards him in 2002. To your point on Stewart/Dooley, even with the improvement of the U.S. domestic player, our best player is still a 'foreign guy'. What does that say?

Jermaine Jones, Mix Diskerud and Terrence Boyd... two of those guys can barely speak English. Doesn't mean they don't care about the team, but how in hell are they three of the most "American" guys on the team? Two of them had barely any contact whatsoever with the one parent who gave them their U.S. citizenship.

Who cares if they can't speak perfect English, is that some requirement to be a member of the MNT or something? Have you ever heard Terrence Boyd talk about the United States? Dude is more publicly proud to be an American than pretty much anyone else in the pool. Not to mention, suiting up for the U.S. made Jones become closer to his father than he ever was as a kid.

I'm far from a xenophobe and I'm far from a flag-waving nationalist. I've been living abroad so long I consider myself to be a human being rather than an American, but to act like all these guys who previously had barely any connection with the U.S. apart from a piece of paper with their name on it are some kind of lion-hearted, red-blooded Americans is silly. They're guys Klinsmann brought in from overseas because because of serendipitous bloodlines, and just because Abby Wambach is the only person who dares to say it in public doesn't mean she's the only American player thinking it. Players should be brought in solely according to what they've accomplished and are capable of, and that automatically rules out a bunch of the players JK has brought in at the expense of numerous domestically based players.

Again, what makes someone a 'red-blooded, lion-hearted American'? Okay, I'll bite. Which players, outside of Julian Green, that Klinsmann has called up don't deserve to be? Chandler? He's been pretty bad for the U.S., but the dude's a starter in the Bundesliga (a very good one at times). Williams? Again, it's not like he's riding the bench somewhere. Brooks? Nope. Alvarado? You'd probably have a point there, but he's still only 23, so there's room to grow for him. Orozco? I'm not his biggest fan, but he's actually been fairly decent for us. Jordan Morris? Oh wait, he's a white guy from Seattle. He doesn't count.

You're... you're making me defend Klinsmann... I don't like this.

This has little to do with "expanding the talent pool." It's one thing to expand the pool. It's quite another thing to make boneheaded roster decisions based on where players grew up, and Klinsmann appears to have done that on numerous occasions - the most glaring example being when he replaced our best player ever with Julian freaking Green.

Donovan sucked for the first part of 2014. His play/form didn't earn a roster spot, end of story. Why assume that Green knocked Donovan off the team anyways? It could easily have been Brad Davis.