Tyson Jost

[John Mandalorian]

Ballz on the table, lol


For the record I agree, but you will be remembered for it now if be breaks out because of this post hehe.

I agree with him. But I was trying to stay optimistic and biting my tongue.

 

[PAZ]

Contrary to what is thought, I quite like Jost overall as a player and think he is going to be a good player for a long time. I just don't see him a #2C sort and that was blasphemy for a while.

He has a few small things that he needs to improve that would help immensely. If he can either improve his speed or be stronger on his skates, everything else will fall into place.

Jost seems like a hard worker, so I think one or both are definitely achievable in the next few years.

 

[avsfan09]

Contrary to what is thought, I quite like Jost overall as a player and think he is going to be a good player for a long time. I just don't see him a #2C sort and that was blasphemy for a while.

Yeah I know it bothered me for a while mostly because of how much weight your opinion holds on these boards. (Rightfully so IMO) but, people glom onto your ideas at times like gospel unfortunately and don't formulate their own opinions. That always bothered me a bit. Still think he could be a C but I'm starting to buy into the longterm winger idea now.

 

[SaltySkywalker]

Yeah I know it bothered me for a while mostly because of how much weight your opinion holds on these boards. (Rightfully so IMO) but, people glom onto your ideas at times like gospel unfortunately and don't formulate their own opinions. That always bothered me a bit. Still think he could be a C but I'm starting to buy into the longterm winger idea now.

I live vicariously through @henchman24

Edit: I just realized, I almost never post anything of worth on these boards. I am a much better reader then contributor.

 

[avsfan09]

I live vicariously through @henchman24

Point made

 

[Mac2Rants]

He has a few small things that he needs to improve that would help immensely. If he can either improve his speed or be stronger on his skates, everything else will fall into place.

Jost seems like a hard worker, so I think one or both are definitely achievable in the next few years.

He in known as a hard worker

 

[henchman21]

He has a few small things that he needs to improve that would help immensely. If he can either improve his speed or be stronger on his skates, everything else will fall into place.

Jost seems like a hard worker, so I think one or both are definitely achievable in the next few years.

The hard worker bit is so overrated in hockey... honestly 90% of the league are hard workers. These are professional players that are trying their best to be the best players they possibly can. That doesn't mean hard work equates to being a top level player. If that was all it took, Calvert would be a top line player. There is just a certain amount of talent that has to be had and without it, no amount of work can overcome. There are those players that are just so naturally gifted that they can be great players in the league without working hard (Kessel is that poster boy), but they are few and far between. Even immense talents like Wolski are given up on if they don't work hard.

Yeah I know it bothered me for a while mostly because of how much weight your opinion holds on these boards. (Rightfully so IMO) but, people glom onto your ideas at times like gospel unfortunately and don't formulate their own opinions. That always bothered me a bit. Still think he could be a C but I'm starting to buy into the longterm winger idea now.

I evaluate based upon my opinion regardless whether people agree or not. There are many, many times I am wrong... and I take note of my big misses and try to learn from them. I hope Jost can prove me wrong with regards to him being a long-term center. Mostly it would help the Avs, but it would probably teach me something too.

 

[avsfan09]

I live vicariously through @henchman24

Edit: I just realized, I almost never post anything of worth on these boards. I am a much better reader then contributor.

I know you as a poster. Its crazy but I probably remember more posters names here than guys from work lol.

 

[ASmileyFace]

I just regurgitate @henchman24's ideas until people can't tell that we are two different posters

I still have faith by the way. I like Jost's game a lot and think he has made slow improvements in nearly every way. I still think he will be a really solid 2nd liner for this team for the foreseeable future and will put up 50-65pts next season for sure.

 

[avsfan09]

I evaluate based upon my opinion regardless whether people agree or not. There are many, many times I am wrong... and I take note of my big misses and try to learn from them. I hope Jost can prove me wrong with regards to him being a long-term center. Mostly it would help the Avs, but it would probably teach me something too.

Tbf I once thought Scarbossa would be a top six guy for us...

 

[henchman21]

Tbf I once thought Scarbossa would be a top six guy for us...

I was a big pirate fan...honestly the tools were all there and honestly they still are there. He's a damn good AHL player. Not to drag his name through the mud, his ego and coachability (or lack thereof) got the best of him. Orgs sour on that quickly when you are not so talented that orgs overlook those flaws.

 

[Bender]

I know it sounds premature but I'm officially starting to sour on him a bit.

We know his obvious flaws--he's not big, and he's not fast. The acceleration and edgework has improved noticeably but without speed and real power he gets pinned to the boards way too often and way too easily. The only ways to counteract those big flaws are:

1. Possess elite-level hockey sense, if you can't outskate them you can outthink them (i.e., Ryan O'Reilly's advantage) and just basically know where to be before anyone else.
2. Have elite-level hands able to maneuver in tight areas and make plays.
3. Develop an elite-level shot that can get through traffic and beat the goalie from virtually anywhere.

This is not to say I think he should be an elite-level player, just saying I think in order to be the true answer as a 2nd line scorer those particular aspects of his game need to be elite or near-elite. I think he is, at best, above-average in those areas. The shot could evolve yet but I doubt it'll ever be a worldbeater.

I DO think he possesses great defensive acumen and will end up being a very good two-way complementary winger who can probably play a utility role and maybe put up some points. But I don't think he'll come close to meeting the expectations that come with being a 10th-overall pick.

I'll just call it now--I think the clock is ticking and Jost will be moved out in some sort of package deal either at the deadline or in the offseason. The role of 2C will need to be addressed in some other fashion. It's a shame, I think he works hard and is an easy guy to root for, but I personally have seen enough. I HOPE he proves me wrong, but I don't see it happening. I also don't blame Sakic for waiting one more season to see what he's got in TJ, but ultimately he ain't the answer. Again, hope I'm wrong...but I don't think I will be.

I'll be absolutely shocked if Jost is the one moved out and not Kerfoot.

Jost is going to be fine. I've said it before but I'm expecting a Bo Horvat-like type of progression with him....not everyone is Sebastian Aho.

2014-15	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	68	13	12	25	16	-8	|	Playoffs	6	1	3	4	2	1
	Utica Comets	AHL	5	0	0	0	4	0	|
2015-16	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	82	16	24	40	18	-30	|
2016-17	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	81	20	32	52	27	-7	|
2017-18	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	64	22	22	44	10	-1	|
	Canada	WC	10	3	4	7	0	3	|
2018-19	Vancouver Canucks “A”	NHL	29	12	13	25	19	-5

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Canucks really allowed him to take his lumps, especially that second year at -30 but he got there. I have zero reason to believe that Tyson is any different, in fact he flags to me to be more dynamic than Horvat. Whether that's at Center or on the Wing remains to be seen and I think a lot of that will depend on where we're going to pick in next year's draft.

Oh and by the way, after years of being tiny...Jonathan Drouin is now GIGANTIC at 6'0".
Jonathan Drouin at eliteprospects.com

 

[ASmileyFace]

Tbf I once thought Scarbossa would be a top six guy for us...

I had totally forgotten about that guy lol

I had him pegged into our top 6 right after that trade. Whoops

 

[henchman21]

Oh and by the way, after years of being tiny...Jonathan Drouin is now GIGANTIC at 6'0".
Jonathan Drouin at eliteprospects.com

I know this is hyperbole, but I always find it kinda humorous how this is latched onto as a matter of an inch. It isn't purely the height or weight... it is a matter of skating beyond that. You can be a successful small center in the NHL, even a great 2 way small center... but it requires an excellent level of skating nearing elite as a player gets smaller. A great example of this is Point with Tampa... honestly one of the best 2 way centers in the game. He not only is short, but he doesn't even hit 170 pounds... but he is a top 5 if not top 2 skater in the entire NHL. His elite skating allows him to play a great 2 way game.

Also... Drouin failed at center.

 

[McMetal]

Watching Jost this year you always feel like he's juuuust on the edge of breaking out, but never quite gets there. I'm still hopeful that he passes that threshold soon, because we sure could use a consistent scorer in the bottom nine.

 

[Bender]

I know this is hyperbole, but I always find it kinda humorous how this is latched onto as a matter of an inch. It isn't purely the height or weight... it is a matter of skating beyond that. You can be a successful small center in the NHL, even a great 2 way small center... but it requires an excellent level of skating nearing elite as a player gets smaller. A great example of this is Point with Tampa... honestly one of the best 2 way centers in the game. He not only is short, but he doesn't even hit 170 pounds... but he is a top 5 if not top 2 skater in the entire NHL. His elite skating allows him to play a great 2 way game.

Also... Drouin failed at center.

Oh that wasn't my point...but more that Drouin has been listed as 5'11" or less practically his whole career and now, somehow he's 6'0". Did he have a growth spurt at age 23? lol

And I could have told you that he wasn't going to work at center before they even tried it.

It's fine...for every Brayden Point [on an off-note : sweet zombie jesus is that guy going to cost TB a bundle!!] you point to with elite speed, I will point to a Ryan O'Reilly, a Paul Stastny or a Carl Soderberg that were never speedsters but over the years improved their skating to get the job done. I believe this will happen with Jost as well but people can choose to believe that I live in a fantasy world, it doesn't bother me.

 

[henchman21]

Oh that wasn't my point...but more that Drouin has been listed as 5'11" or less practically his whole career and now, somehow he's 6'0". Did he have a growth spurt at age 23? lol

And I could have told you that he wasn't going to work at center before they even tried it.

It's fine...for every Brayden Point [on an off-note : sweet zombie jesus is that guy going to cost TB a bundle!!] you point to with elite speed, I will point to a Ryan O'Reilly, a Paul Stastny or a Carl Soderberg that were never speedsters but over the years improved their skating to get the job done. I believe this will happen with Jost as well but people can choose to believe that I live in a fantasy world, it doesn't bother me.

Oh me too... Drouin's issues are more about being softer than baby crap after a night ot tequila than anything else.

ROR and Soda are a good chunk bigger than Jost... hence the sliding scale on size and skating. You can't tell me that Soda at 6'3" 210lbs has the same criteria to being successful as a 5'11" 190lbs Jost. I'd argue that Stastny has a good deal higher IQ along with the NHL getting faster, types like Stastny are becoming less and less effective. It isn't completely impossible for Jost to be an effective 2 way center, but the deck is stacked very much against him with his size and skating. To me, it is clear as day that his game picked up significantly when the responsibility was lessened and the ice he was covering was shortened.

 

[Foppberg]

Watching Jost this year you always feel like he's juuuust on the edge of breaking out, but never quite gets there. I'm still hopeful that he passes that threshold soon, because we sure could use a consistent scorer in the bottom nine.

Same. I know age is thrown around here a lot but I mean he is still only 20 years old. Be different if he was 23 or 24.

 

[Bender]

Oh me too... Drouin's issues are more about being softer than baby crap after a night ot tequila than anything else.

ROR and Soda are a good chunk bigger than Jost... hence the sliding scale on size and skating. You can't tell me that Soda at 6'3" 210lbs has the same criteria to being successful as a 5'11" 190lbs Jost. I'd argue that Stastny has a good deal higher IQ along with the NHL getting faster, types like Stastny are becoming less and less effective. It isn't completely impossible for Jost to be an effective 2 way center, but the deck is stacked very much against him with his size and skating. To me, it is clear as day that his game picked up significantly when the responsibility was lessened and the ice he was covering was shortened.

Absolutely and I get it...I played C for a long time and as the levels increase in difficulty, so does the work load. I eventually converted to wing, which was a lot less demanding. So I absolutely understand how this goes.

Still, as I mentioned at the beginning of the season...it's a lot to ask a 20 year old to play 2nd line center in the NHL and it doesn't matter who you are. Those who have instant success are few and far between...unless we are forgetting Mack's 2nd and 3rd season when the Avs stuck with him at C when there was a lot of debate about keeping him there or shifting him to the right side. (we are reaping the rewards of sticking to it right now)

Personally, my belief is that we have the pieces to make this work but Bednar is really set in his ways in terms of his vision of the team. I would have Soderberg centering the 2nd line and Jost centering the 3rd to bring him along more slowly, give him easier matchups and take some of the pressure off. If Bednar wasn't so stubborn on only playing Carl with grinders, maybe we'd be seeing something different than we are right now.

 

[Pokecheque]

Your expectations grow exponentially from 19-20? Jost is only 20 ffs. He scored around a 30 pt pace as a rookie. This year hes on pace for 43 and heating up. Hell be a slower grower due to not possessing elite speed but he has top six skill and intelligence. And he Is actually progressing nicely atm imo. I know it's frustrating that hes not holding down the 2nd c spot but it would be silly to give him up unless the other team values him highly and we are upgrading.

Geez, where did I say that? I'm not comparing draft positions between Kaut and Jost, that would be foolhardy. I simply think Kaut projects to be a better player than Jost, that's all. And I am by NO MEANS a prospects/futures expert, that's just my opinion thrown out there for the sake of discussion.

I don't mean to say I'm "giving up" on him, more like my expectations/hopes are dimming a bit. And while I say I think he will be moved, that's not to say that I want him moved. I'll gladly take my lumps on this one if I'm wrong. And I could very well be that, especially since he is indeed only 20 and we are only barely past the quarter-mark of his second season.

Also, I don't think he's that sort of player who can be the primary driver, nor should he be. Put a star on that line of some sort and I think you'll see better results. Right now he's stuck with Compher/Kerfoot and Wilson. I think we can all agree that ain't quite good enough.

 

[avsfan09]

Geez, where did I say that? I'm not comparing draft positions between Kaut and Jost, that would be foolhardy. I simply think Kaut projects to be a better player than Jost, that's all. And I am by NO MEANS a prospects/futures expert, that's just my opinion thrown out there for the sake of discussion.

I don't mean to say I'm "giving up" on him, more like my expectations/hopes are dimming a bit. And while I say I think he will be moved, that's not to say that I want him moved. I'll gladly take my lumps on this one if I'm wrong. And I could very well be that, especially since he is indeed only 20 and we are only barely past the quarter-mark of his second season.

Also, I don't think he's that sort of player who can be the primary driver, nor should he be. Put a star on that line of some sort and I think you'll see better results. Right now he's stuck with Compher/Kerfoot and Wilson. I think we can all agree that ain't quite good enough.

It was just a comment about this statement-
"I'm hoping should he stay that a guy like Kaut could yet be the star (and yes, I know I'm expecting a lot out of a kid that's only still 19)"
Just seemed that you were being reasonable about Kaut but unreasonable about Jost. Jost is a year older and in a harder role. I think hes shown reasonable progress and just find it weird that people are so negative about his progress. Didnt mean to misrepresent you probably should have worded that differently I guess.
I just hope these guys can be top Sixers and compliment a higher end 2nd C if Joe ever gets one.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

I'll be absolutely shocked if Jost is the one moved out and not Kerfoot.

Jost is going to be fine. I've said it before but I'm expecting a Bo Horvat-like type of progression with him....not everyone is Sebastian Aho.

2014-15	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	68	13	12	25	16	-8	|	Playoffs	6	1	3	4	2	1
	Utica Comets	AHL	5	0	0	0	4	0	|
2015-16	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	82	16	24	40	18	-30	|
2016-17	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	81	20	32	52	27	-7	|
2017-18	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	64	22	22	44	10	-1	|
	Canada	WC	10	3	4	7	0	3	|
2018-19	Vancouver Canucks “A”	NHL	29	12	13	25	19	-5

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The Canucks really allowed him to take his lumps, especially that second year at -30 but he got there. I have zero reason to believe that Tyson is any different, in fact he flags to me to be more dynamic than Horvat. Whether that's at Center or on the Wing remains to be seen and I think a lot of that will depend on where we're going to pick in next year's draft.

Oh and by the way, after years of being tiny...Jonathan Drouin is now GIGANTIC at 6'0".
Jonathan Drouin at eliteprospects.com

The best part about that table is the lack of playoff numbers for the past 4 seasons...

 

[Pokecheque]

It was just a comment about this statement-
"I'm hoping should he stay that a guy like Kaut could yet be the star (and yes, I know I'm expecting a lot out of a kid that's only still 19)"
Just seemed that you were being reasonable about Kaut but unreasonable about Jost. Jost is a year older and in a harder role. I think hes shown reasonable progress and just find it weird that people are so negative about his progress. Didnt mean to misrepresent you probably should have worded that differently I guess.
I just hope these guys can be top Sixers and compliment a higher end 2nd C if Joe ever gets one.

That's fair, I realize I'm likely extrapolating too much from a small sample size.

It'd be nice if they could get SOMEONE to help create space out there for him, maybe keep the opposition from crowding him in. We know Wilson and his puck-bumbling ways most certainly can't do that, and Kerf is simply too small, same kinda/sorta goes with Compher.

I do like to see Bednar go back to the "Roommates" line any time he gets in trouble and needs a spark.

The more I think about it the more I feel like my frustration should not be directed at Jost, but Wilson. And even then it's sort of misplaced because he's a clear 3rd/4th line guy being asked to provide 2RW scoring, which he can't.

 

[Bender]

That's fair, I realize I'm likely extrapolating too much from a small sample size.

It'd be nice if they could get SOMEONE to help create space out there for him, maybe keep the opposition from crowding him in. We know Wilson and his puck-bumbling ways most certainly can't do that, and Kerf is simply too small, same kinda/sorta goes with Compher.

I do like to see Bednar go back to the "Roommates" line any time he gets in trouble and needs a spark.

The more I think about it the more I feel like my frustration should not be directed at Jost, but Wilson. And even then it's sort of misplaced because he's a clear 3rd/4th line guy being asked to provide 2RW scoring, which he can't.

Well Wilson is certainly a 'tweener' but the problem is that he's not a 2nd/3rd line tweener...he's definitely a 3rd/4th line tweener and until Bednar realizes that, we are going to have issues with him playing with skill players. Oh sure, he'll pop-in the odd goal just due to sheer hard work and being in the right spot at the right time (like on the great pass from Mack the other night) but generally speaking, it's not great idea giving so much primo ice time to a guy that limited.

Wilson 10pts in 27gp - is not great when you consider his ice time & linemates

Soderberg 19pts in 28gp - is PHENOMENAL when you his consider ice time & linemates

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I live vicariously through @henchman24

Edit: I just realized, I almost never post anything of worth on these boards. I am a much better reader then contributor.

And I live precariously through Smiley!