ZiGOODejad
intangibles
- Nov 30, 2013
- 5,372
- 1,563
The value isn't there for the Rangers I'm not sure about philly. Some people don't realize how much Step is needed on our roster. By far our best two way forward
Proposal: Tyson Barrie for Derek Stepan / Sean Couturier
- Thread starter Murzu
- Start date
Thordic
StraightOuttaConklin
- Jul 12, 2006
- 3,013
- 722
An interesting proposal as a Rangers fan.
The issue at center for us right now is that, as you mentioned, Zib is hurt. Hayes has really stepped up this year, so theoretically we could trade Step.
Last year, I think most Rangers fans would have been fine trying Lindberg as our 3C but after offseason hip surgery he has looked like hot garbage so far.
I think the timing is poor right now, but it's not a bad proposal. We need to do something to push Girardi down the lineup at the very least.
I think Rangers fans, and possibly management, are counting on Shattenkirk coming over this summer.
The issue at center for us right now is that, as you mentioned, Zib is hurt. Hayes has really stepped up this year, so theoretically we could trade Step.
Last year, I think most Rangers fans would have been fine trying Lindberg as our 3C but after offseason hip surgery he has looked like hot garbage so far.
I think the timing is poor right now, but it's not a bad proposal. We need to do something to push Girardi down the lineup at the very least.
I think Rangers fans, and possibly management, are counting on Shattenkirk coming over this summer.
We lack a center that can take hard matchups and give breathing room for our offensive players.
Phillys center deprh is horrendous beyond cooter. If he were to be moved it would be with a serious c prospect coming back. Not saying value isnt there but overpayment is necessary
Even if the Rangers were the favourites to sign Shattenkirk, there are multiple other teams that would be looking to sign him too.
But yeah, it seems that both team are not so keen to do this trade, especially Philly. I get it, there have been good explanations why.
When Zibanejad is good to go again, I'd do Grigorenko and Barrie for Stepan and a small add, maybe 3rd rounder or a roster player to even the cap hits. He is defensively responsible center that you can slot into 3C position.
Gecklund
Registered User
I'm wondering if something like Barrie for Nuge would work. Edmonton needs a PMD RHD while Colorado needs a good C and Nuge is very underrated defensively
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
- 40,201
- 37,463
This has been debated a lot and there are people from both sides who I agree and disagree. Don't know why Colorado NEEDS a good C though? They have Mackinnon, Duchene, Soderberg, Grigorenko and Mitchell on their roster right now. Their centre depth isn't quite as good as when they had ROR and Stastny but it's still one of the best in the league in that area.
I haven't been following Colorado that much.
But it looks like Joe Colborne didn't really turn out the way they thought.
I think his 3 goals on the year came off of one game.
But it looks like Joe Colborne didn't really turn out the way they thought.
I think his 3 goals on the year came off of one game.
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
- 40,201
- 37,463
I don't know what management thought of him but he's worked out exactly like fans of the team expected. Big, slow and refusing to give effort.
Tripod
I hate this team
Philly NEEDS a C, not looking to lose one.
Flyers 3rd and 4th line C have 3 goals and 9 point COMBINED. Since the summer, I wanted to add a defensive C or one that could add points. Bozak was someone I had talked about.
Nothing has changed, Philly needs a C.
Flyers 3rd and 4th line C have 3 goals and 9 point COMBINED. Since the summer, I wanted to add a defensive C or one that could add points. Bozak was someone I had talked about.
Nothing has changed, Philly needs a C.
Rangers would move Barrie but they can't move their top C . Even w Zib healthy and Hayes doing great
other quote did not stay
evidences he has mancrush on Stepan, who is a very good player, approx 20th best 1C, give or take, nothing more, nothing less.
His def prowess conceded, he is not our best C (Zib) or most indispensable F.
My detractors like to be close minded, vs freedom of thought, reject my comments out of hand
however, at end of the day, MY wise advice speaks for itself:
DO NOT TRADE young core: Skjei, Miller, Hayes, Kreider, Graves
Trade Girardi, Nash, Stepan
listen to my detractors at your own peril
You only do it if you make enough profit.
I respectfully suggest this is that.
MacDonagh is most of MacKinnon
Stepan balances Zadorov, who has ELC, etc but, while looking good, at this minute is unproven
You win every other aspect of the trade, at least if not more than makes up the value differential.
As to age, I disagree.
Let's be honest. This is NOT a scenario that offers 2 mid30s Sedins.
The core principals of McD (27) and Stepan (26) are mid 20s
yes older than counterpart core MacKinnon and Zadorov, but entering their prime on good deals, Stepan top dollar turning more bargain as deal goes on, McD is already a sweetheart deal that ups his trade value, should you choose to go there.
Klein is the other nice piece, and granted, at 31 he is not the preferred side of 30, but he is all yours at sweet $ this year and next at min
Are they competitive now?
remember, YOU asked so forgive me for being brutally honest
atm, AVs are a handful of stars and a mediocre or worst collection filling out the roster.
you could hope to trade your trash for somebody else's garbage and get lucky.
Is that a solid, reliable strategy?
You could build through the draft and hope you are not Edmonton, and even if you are not, that takes time.
Or you can move a jewel or two for a larger number of gems, even they are not the brightest baubles, comparatively.
sure the glaring visual is you surrendered a jewel and what looks like the Hope Diamond, but are you truly being shortchanged? Esp on the totality of the deal?
You basically keep Duchene and Landeskog instead of dealing them and instead deal MacK. That is 2 foundation pieces as opposed to one. Klein and Zadorov both contribute, so for purposes of a useful body that is a wash. Now you have added Stepan and McDonagh, which is huge. You also get a tacker for Varmalov's contract, which would not happen without the redeeming counterbalance of a deal such as this. That is another solid add.Like I said, Lindy ya gotta give him 6 wks or so for his hips to more fully regain form, but we know he is a 3C. That's not top 6, but it is another add to the roster.
You have lost a top player and a top prospect just making the team. But you have gained depth. Duke enjoys return to top slot. Stepan will make his wings more productive. You have appreciably improved the d, and in goal.
All of the above
faster execution to respectability
build
connect the dots
build
don't be seduced by the allure of win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now win now and every time you come up short it slows your progress.
I disagree
The actual numbers proposed are close.
But there is structural improvement, both potential and actual.
Consider:
MacK and Stepan are almost identical cap,
Klein is roughly one more than Zadorov
but you are adding McD on a sweetheart 4.7
AND you are dumping Varmalov
Lindy is cheap
so if you made no more moves, you are ahead
now Klein makes it easier to move EJohnson, which 6 that you move less what you take back.
if you went the other way, Klein fetches a 1st
I recommend keeping McD, but until Trouba caved, there was talk that based on a likelihood of 5.5-6mil min, that McD would get Trouba + a decent add
The point is you are giving up 2 preferred pieces of top currency, in exchange for more pieces of top currency.
Gives you options.
Build around this, or gamble and move some pieces for multiple prospects to (hopefully accelerate) return to competitiveness
trust that covered all your ?s
Tripod
I hate this team
How does that help us fill the #2 C role that Couts fills?
We have no one on the team or ready as a prospect to handle the #3 role....we are not trading away our #2 C as well.
Easy no from Philly.
Iceberg
Registered User
- May 4, 2002
- 4,792
- 1,129
strictlyrandy
Registered User
I'm not completely against this from a NYR perspective but it's definitely an off season move to trade Stepan, he's just too important to this team to move him mid season imo.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Barrie's value is one thing
He is excellent offensively, but we need solid actual D.
the other thing, the elephant in the room, is that one of McD (good luck, 100% not happening unless in a package returning MacKinnon) or NMCers Staal/Girardi must be moved, due to exp draft requirements, and it is not clear we can be certain we can do that in a separate deal.
we should otherwise trade him when value is highest. However, after this season he earns what was reported as NMC alt thought to be NTC, but either way, he gains a lot more say if we wait until next year.
I don't have blind faith in all the kids, but have been on record about our C depth esp Hayes. He has fully arrived, so it is no brainer, do it now.
Shootertooter
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2016
- 3,676
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I might consider Stepan for Trouba, but not for Barrie.
I'd like the Rangers to take a run at Trouba or Vatenen first.
I'd like the Rangers to take a run at Trouba or Vatenen first.
Shootertooter
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2016
- 3,676
- 1,487
If this was the offer, I think the Rangers would try to add a guy like Klein before they would give up that pick to the Avs.
Isn't col. Thin on d as it is? I don't understand how you can be thin at center with Duchesne, mack, and soderberg already :/. Like, wouldn't it make more sense to get back end help with the ability to feed these guys?
There is a current thought process that we don't have that two-way center that we need to contend, and Jost's does not really get a lot of exposure right now. So there is also a belief that we don't have that player in the pipeline.
Even though both Jost and Compher are known for their two way play, and both have first and second line upside.
Soderberg isn't performing right now offensively, and Duchene scores more goals as a RW.
It's a knee jerk reaction to Barrie & Soderberg under performing to start the season. Personally I think we're fine up front, and would rather try to get more of a two-way defender somehow with what we get for Barrie, or for Barrie himself. Both of our young defenders can move the puck, but won't put up the points Barrie does. So Barrie's offense seems kind of expendable by comity. EJ is also pushing more offensively this year and has the chopps to do it when he wants to.
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