Proposal: Tyson Barrie for Derek Stepan / Sean Couturier

[Murzu]

Yes, I'm fully aware that there is Value of: Tyson Barrie thread. I created this thread to limit the discussion to these two players.

Söderberg is a okay option to be a 2C, but I'm not too sold on his defensive play. I would leave him unprotected at expansion draft. We need someone to take burden away from MacKinnon. He is doing good job defensively most of the time, but offense is his strong suit. Duchene is decent defensively too, but his strenghts are not there either.

Acquiring either one of these guys would allow Duchene to stay mainly on RW where he has been great most of the times he has played there. Also would give us more center depth in case there is need. We would be the ones seeking new top 4 RHD after this move, but Barrie just does not seem to fit the system.

From my understanding NYR fans are looking for top 4 RHD, which Barrie is, even with his faults. This seems like a fairish swap to me. From my understanding NYR could spare a center to fill this need, atleast after Mika Zibanejad returns at ~January.

Philly on the other hand has fantastic depth on LHD prospects. Barrie would, with my knowledge, fill a need being an RHD. They have Ghost, but having Barrie would not hurt - he could for example replace Streits output. By the way, I don't believe Barries partner would need to a player with superb defense, as Barrie has had most of his best moments with Nick Holden and Nate Guenin as his partners.. I know Philly would miss Couturier, but of course they gain something here.

Hopefully value is close to fair.

Click to read more...

 

[Goulet17]

In addition to trading Barrie, Colorado should look to trade EJ, Landeskog, and Varly as well, but only for additional centers.

 

[YP44]

In addition to trading Barrie, Colorado should look to trade EJ, Landeskog, and Varly as well, but only for additional centers.

haha yup.

 

[Murzu]

In addition to trading Barrie, Colorado should look to trade EJ, Landeskog, and Varly as well, but only for additional centers.

Thank you for useful input.

 

[Iceberg]

In addition to trading Barrie, Colorado should look to trade EJ, Landeskog, and Varly as well, but only for additional centers.

We are weak at center.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Im personally not really interested in Barrie. Dont think he is that good of a twoway defensemen. Sure better than our right side defensemen now but not worth giving up our #1C for him. Would rather keep Stepan and go after Shatty Who will be more expensive in terms of cap hit but Shatty is a better player than Barrie imo

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The Flyers' immediate Center depth is horrendous. Moving one of the 2 capable Cs on the roster for a defenseman when they already have 8 under NHL contract just isn't feasible.

But good on you for offering up real value and not the typical variety platter.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

I'm not sure what world you get Couturier for Barrie. I am not a fan of Couts but he is an elite defensive centerman and the flyers have a fair amount of offensive fire power on the blue line

 

[Murzu]

The Flyers' immediate Center depth is horrendous. Moving one of the 2 capable Cs on the roster for a defenseman when they already have 8 under NHL contract just isn't feasible.

But good on you for offering up real value and not the typical variety platter.

Thanks.

How about something around..
Söderberg + Barrie <-> Couturier + defenseman? Is there any way to do this without the defenseman being MacDonald? Or is the interest even there?

I should add that Söderberg didn't look great at all in the beginning of the season, but has been playing a lot better past few games.

 

[Murzu]

Im personally not really interested in Barrie. Dont think he is that good of a twoway defensemen. Sure better than our right side defensemen now but not worth giving up our #1C for him. Would rather keep Stepan and go after Shatty Who will be more expensive in terms of cap hit but Shatty is a better player than Barrie imo

He is an offensive defenseman. I would not call him 2way myself.

I don't think the difference between Barrie and Shatty is all big, but I acknowledge Shatty is better.

There are pluses and minuses with your strategy. Pluses being getting Shatty without giving assets, minuses are a lot more tighter cap structure (Shatty for lets say 7M/year instead of Stepans 6.5 -> Barries 5.5 so difference of 8M. This trade would actually free you cap space. Maybe you can fit him in without losing anyone important, haven't checked) and the uncertainty of whether you really can land Shatty 100% surely or not.

 

[Evergreen]

Barrie is completely redundant on the Flyers with Gostisbehere. We need capable defensive defensemen. Not undersized guys who are tire fires in their own end like Barrie. Also we certainly wouldn't trade Couturier for him.

 

[Murzu]

Barrie is completely redundant on the Flyers with Gostisbehere. We need capable defensive defensemen. Not undersized guys who are tire fires in their own end like Barrie. Also we certainly wouldn't trade Couturier for him.

Just throwing this out here as a very quickly thought option based on your feedback. Dont slaughter me.

PHI: Trouba

Avs: Couturier

WPG: Barrie

 

[Iceberg]

Just throwing this out here as a very quickly thought option based on your feedback. Dont slaughter me.

PHI: Trouba

Avs: Couturier

WPG: Barrie

If you can trade Barrie for Trouba, you just keep Trouba.

 

[WesMcCauley]

He is an offensive defenseman. I would not call him 2way myself.

I don't think the difference between Barrie and Shatty is all big, but I acknowledge Shatty is better.

There are pluses and minuses with your strategy. Pluses being getting Shatty without giving assets, minuses are a lot more tighter cap structure (Shatty for lets say 7M/year instead of Stepans 6.5 -> Barries 5.5 so difference of 8M. This trade would actually free you cap space. Maybe you can fit him in without losing anyone important, haven't checked) and the uncertainty of whether you really can land Shatty 100% surely or not.

Ye i know he is a offensive defensemen, i just dont think his twoway game is very good. Would want someone a little more reliable if we give up Stepan

 

[bernmeister]

Yes, I'm fully aware that there is Value of: Tyson Barrie thread. I created this thread to limit the discussion to these two players.

Söderberg is a okay option to be a 2C, but I'm not too sold on his defensive play. I would leave him unprotected at expansion draft. We need someone to take burden away from MacKinnon. He is doing good job defensively most of the time, but offense is his strong suit. Duchene is decent defensively too, but his strenghts are not there either.

Acquiring either one of these guys would allow Duchene to stay mainly on RW where he has been great most of the times he has played there. Also would give us more center depth in case there is need. We would be the ones seeking new top 4 RHD after this move, but Barrie just does not seem to fit the system.

From my understanding NYR fans are looking for top 4 RHD, which Barrie is, even with his faults. This seems like a fairish swap to me. From my understanding NYR could spare a center to fill this need, atleast after Mika Zibanejad returns at ~January.

Philly on the other hand has fantastic depth on LHD prospects. Barrie would, with my knowledge, fill a need being an RHD. They have Ghost, but having Barrie would not hurt - he could for example replace Streits output. By the way, I don't believe Barries partner would need to a player with superb defense, as Barrie has had most of his best moments with Nick Holden and Nate Guenin as his partners.. I know Philly would miss Couturier, but of course they gain something here.

Hopefully value is close to fair.

We are weak at center.

to directly answer the OP, yes, in a vacuum Barrie for Stepan is at least ballpark fair at min if not more than that, if not for any other reason than ballpark close production and Barrie is a bit cheaper.

the only prob is not if we can handle C depth, but how we manage the exp draft
at this writing
McD + required NMCs Staal and Girardi, so we add another D, if he is not ELC exemption protect, we have to expose him, which is self defeating nutso. also could not take on another NMC, I think, if only 3 Ds protect-able, but then the other option for skaters lets you protect less total Fs, also unacceptable.

I would give you a package deal including Staal, but he is well set w/fancy digs in CT and contending status of NY this year, not likely he waives for too many.

Klein, remember is nice and could theoretically be in a package, but does not solve this prob cause the other NMCs still waive.

I would listen to scenarios how to defeat that.
However, let me extend a variant on Stepan to Colorado, which achieves that, while adding another C, and returns a D to NY, but upgrades your D extensively... at a cost

McDonagh 4.7 mid term
Stepan 6.5 long term
Klein, 2.9m x 2
Lindberg 650,000 expiring
Raanta 1m x 2
Rangers 2017 1st
total 15.75

MacKinnon 6.3 long term
Zadorov 894,167 RFA after ELC, expansion draft exempt
cap dumps
Siemens 874,125
Varlamov 5.9 x 3
total =13.968,292

deal is 5 + pick for 4, NY gets less than 2m cap recovery, just enough estimated for AVs to do deal, but if a prob, Rangers can take on another body reasonable cap dump to equalize or others on AV roster can be moved.

[Erik Johnson 6.0 long term, would be preferable and possibly neater for both, but while it is clear it is modified, there is NMC. I think that means that unless Rangers take on responsibility of finding a taker for him - without equal footing or leverage -- that NMC means he too has to be protected, which defeats purpose.]

Obv. MacKinnon is brightest jewel here, Rangers reasonably overpay to = possible super line of Kreider - MacK - Zib hoping to dominate/neutralize Malkin-Crosby-Kessel

Zadorov is a nice add
Staal stays for now, but Zadorov is building block with Graves and Skjei, who plays on right side balance of year

after that, deal is all AVs
Stepan def and overall improving linemates helps with pivot depth, Duchene now your #1, and Lindberg able to step up to 3C. [Playing through, still recovering from hip surgery, just needs to not overdo it for another month-ish,has been nicely returning to form, slow but steady.]
HUGE ADD to D, McD is 1LD, Klein a solid add, you still have Barrie to play or trade.
Raanta proving himself worthy, and Rangers will move Varmy and go with Skapski at some point.
This would be a big structural cap improvement, paying a lot less for netminder.
While 3 primary assets from NY are older than MacK and Zadorov, they are young enough to be giving prime years right now.
Ranger 1st compensates for age or any other difs.

Rangers' RD a bit thinner, but other moves will address those.

 

[Evergreen]

Just throwing this out here as a very quickly thought option based on your feedback. Dont slaughter me.

PHI: Trouba

Avs: Couturier

WPG: Barrie

I really don't think the Flyers could afford to trade Couturier at all. He's one of the least likely guys to get traded. Won't happen.

 

[Goulet17]

We are weak at center.

If you feel like the Avs are weak at center currently, there is not a current trade or future drafting that will ever change that IMO.

 

[Goulet17]

Thank you for useful input.

You're most welcome. I find the premise of your trade, that the Avs need help at center, as utterly ridiculous.

 

[MarkMessyay11]

Can't see any scenario where the Rangers agree to this. I know this topic has been beaten to death here, but whether you agree or not, Stepan is the Rangers #1 C...there's very little they would probably consider moving him for IMO. Even before Zib's injury.

And while I'm sure they'd love to add Barrie, it won't be at the expense of Stepan. Especially with Skjei progressing so quickly and the potential to sign a top-4 offensive defenseman this summer.

 

[Goulet17]

to directly answer the OP, yes, in a vacuum Barrie for Stepan is at least ballpark fair at min if not more than that, if not for any other reason than ballpark close production and Barrie is a bit cheaper.

the only prob is not if we can handle C depth, but how we manage the exp draft
at this writing
McD + required NMCs Staal and Girardi, so we add another D, if he is not ELC exemption protect, we have to expose him, which is self defeating nutso. also could not take on another NMC, I think, if only 3 Ds protect-able, but then the other option for skaters lets you protect less total Fs, also unacceptable.

I would give you a package deal including Staal, but he is well set w/fancy digs in CT and contending status of NY this year, not likely he waives for too many.

Klein, remember is nice and could theoretically be in a package, but does not solve this prob cause the other NMCs still waive.

I would listen to scenarios how to defeat that.
However, let me extend a variant on Stepan to Colorado, which achieves that, while adding another C, and returns a D to NY, but upgrades your D extensively... at a cost

McDonagh 4.7 mid term
Stepan 6.5 long term
Klein, 2.9m x 2
Lindberg 650,000 expiring
Raanta 1m x 2
Rangers 2017 1st
total 15.75

MacKinnon 6.3 long term
Zadorov 894,167 RFA after ELC, expansion draft exempt
cap dumps
Siemens 874,125
Varlamov 5.9 x 3
total =13.968,292

deal is 5 + pick for 4, NY gets less than 2m cap recovery, just enough estimated for AVs to do deal, but if a prob, Rangers can take on another body reasonable cap dump to equalize or others on AV roster can be moved.

[Erik Johnson 6.0 long term, would be preferable and possibly neater for both, but while it is clear it is modified, there is NMC. I think that means that unless Rangers take on responsibility of finding a taker for him - without equal footing or leverage -- that NMC means he too has to be protected, which defeats purpose.]

Obv. MacKinnon is brightest jewel here, Rangers reasonably overpay to = possible super line of Kreider - MacK - Zib hoping to dominate/neutralize Malkin-Crosby-Kessel

Zadorov is a nice add
Staal stays for now, but Zadorov is building block with Graves and Skjei, who plays on right side balance of year

after that, deal is all AVs
Stepan def and overall improving linemates helps with pivot depth, Duchene now your #1, and Lindberg able to step up to 3C. [Playing through, still recovering from hip surgery, just needs to not overdo it for another month-ish,has been nicely returning to form, slow but steady.]
HUGE ADD to D, McD is 1LD, Klein a solid add, you still have Barrie to play or trade.
Raanta proving himself worthy, and Rangers will move Varmy and go with Skapski at some point.
This would be a big structural cap improvement, paying a lot less for netminder.
While 3 primary assets from NY are older than MacK and Zadorov, they are young enough to be giving prime years right now.
Ranger 1st compensates for age or any other difs.

Rangers' RD a bit thinner, but other moves will address those.

Why does a rebuilding team trade their young core pieces for significantly older players? Please enlighten me, are the Avs a better team post-trade in terms of competitiveness currently or in the future? What exactly is the incentive for the Avs to make this trade? They don't even gain cap flexibility.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Can't have Sean Couturier

 

[Cousin Eddie]

As an Avs fan I'd add Soderberg or Grigorenko to Barrie to get Coots. If Soderberg is the choice of those two I'd be perfectly fine taking back a cap dump to offset salary too.

 

[MarkMessyay11]

Why does a rebuilding team trade their young core pieces for significantly older players? Please enlighten me, are the Avs a better team post-trade in terms of competitiveness currently or in the future? What exactly is the incentive for the Avs to make this trade? They don't even gain cap flexibility.

Don't listen to him...the trade scenarios that he conjures up are for entertainment purposes only.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Thanks.

How about something around..
Söderberg + Barrie <-> Couturier + defenseman? Is there any way to do this without the defenseman being MacDonald? Or is the interest even there?

I should add that Söderberg didn't look great at all in the beginning of the season, but has been playing a lot better past few games.

I really don't think even if the defenseman was MacDonald you could get to the point where it was about value.

The organizational depth is so out of whack already with 8 guys on NHL deals. Gudas is only 26 and signed long-term, then you have Provorov, Gostisbehere, Sanheim, Morin, and Myers all looking like they have legit top 4 potential, Friedman who still has to be signed, Hagg if you still like him, and a couple of boom/bust late rounders they seem to really like with solid early returns in Högberg and Bernhardt.

Meanwhile 3C is the most glaringly obvious hole on the NHL team as Laughton and Cousins have both been unable to establish themselves and the system has Rubtsov and Vorobyov who are both multiple years away, then Laberge who is supposed to return tonight after missing 6 weeks with a very serious concussion...and not much else for realistic scoring line potential. Early returns on Laczynski look good, but it's way too early to even hope for more than eventually ending up an NHLer.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Thanks.

How about something around..
Söderberg + Barrie <-> Couturier + defenseman? Is there any way to do this without the defenseman being MacDonald? Or is the interest even there?

I should add that Söderberg didn't look great at all in the beginning of the season, but has been playing a lot better past few games.

It just can't work. We're dealing from a position of weakness for a position of strength (organizationally).