Value of: Tyler Toffoli

[FrankMTL]

Zuccarello only got conditional 2nd and 3rd in 2018-2019 and he was 15th in points between 2016-2017 and 2018-2019 among RW and 12th in assists.

Toffoli is a better goal scorer so I think we can expect low 1st and a 2nd or a B prospect.

Zuccarello was going to be UFA, so that makes a huge difference.

 

[YP44]

Montreal isn't realisticly going to do that though. 1st + B prospect at full cap hit.

I agree that is fair. Not sure how Calgary would fit in cap though

 

[Sparky93]

I agree that is fair. Not sure how Calgary would fit in cap though

It'd be pretty tough beyond this year, if everyone stays

 

[Habsrule]

Habs would be smart to retain 50% and gain as much assets as possible.

I don’t think they would be smart to do it on Toffoli unless they get a really big return. Toffoli has value himself and is signed for two more years. I’d much rather trade Toffoli for futures and a cap dump on an existing contract. That way Montreal can eat that cap dump for the rest of the year and be rid of it.

 

[Captain Mountain]

1st + Valimaki + forward prospect for a 50% retained Toffoli

Forward prospect is any one not named Pelletier or Zary

Don't see Montreal doing that. Late 1st is fine, but I don't see the Habs having much interest in Valimaki.

Habs might really like Coronato a lot (I don't follow prospects that much), but they have a couple of undersized wingers in the system with decent upside (including Coronato's teammate Farrell). Then again, it seems likely that his name was inadvertently not excluded.

I generally think Toffoli at 50% probably gets a better fitting package (or piece) for Montreal.

 

[Captain Mountain]

The Flames are not giving up a 1st and Valimaki. I don't see Valimaki on the table. Despite his troubles and injury issues, the Flames have put a lot of effort into developing him, and he is doing very well in the AHL this year.

I don't think that's an issue, I doubt Montreal would have much interest in Valimaki anyways. They've got young LD that they need spots for development anyways.

 

[JAK]

I don’t think they would be smart to do it on Toffoli unless they get a really big return. Toffoli has value himself and is signed for two more years. I’d much rather trade Toffoli for futures and a cap dump on an existing contract. That way Montreal can eat that cap dump for the rest of the year and be rid of it.

A contender might pay through the nose for a low cost Toffoli.

Like Penguins looking for that one last run with Crosby, Malkin and Letang.

 

[CaperJay]

Could see Boston interested in him but no idea what Mtl would want. Debrusk+

 

[Canadienna]

Toffoli at 50% is pretty nice.

Pelletier + 2022 3rd
CGY unprotected 2023 1st
Kravstov + 2nd

Id do any of those as a Habs fan for half retention.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Since I don't think Flames will trade Pelletier, who's dominant in his rookie year in the AHL, maybe:

Zary + Poirier + Zadorov + Panthers 2nd

For

Toffoli

Overpay, 1st +2nd + Pitlick (for cap). You probably wont get a better offer

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I agree that is fair. Not sure how Calgary would fit in cap though

Cap this year isn't an issue. Flames are currently projected to have 7.5M TDL cap space (mind you this number goes down a bit every game day Ruzicka is moved from the TS to main roster)

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Don't see Montreal doing that. Late 1st is fine, but I don't see the Habs having much interest in Valimaki.

Habs might really like Coronato a lot (I don't follow prospects that much), but they have a couple of undersized wingers in the system with decent upside (including Coronato's teammate Farrell). Then again, it seems likely that his name was inadvertently not excluded.

I generally think Toffoli at 50% probably gets a better fitting package (or piece) for Montreal.

When was the last time someone like Toffoli (good 2nd liner) returned a prospect of Coronato's caliber?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Toffoli at 50% is pretty nice.

Pelletier + 2022 3rd
CGY unprotected 2023 1st
Kravstov + 2nd

Id do any of those as a Habs fan for half retention.

Toffoli at 50% wouldnt even return Pelletier by himself

 

[Captain Mountain]

When was the last time someone like Toffoli (good 2nd liner) returned a prospect of Coronato's caliber?

April 3, 2013.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

April 3, 2013.

And we see how well that turned out, to no ones surprise Forsberg became a star player and that trade almost instantly looked awful

 

[Captain Mountain]

And we see how well that turned out, to no ones surprise Forsberg became a star player and that trade almost instantly looked awful

That's cool. We're also assuming that:

1) Coronato has the same upside (offensively he does, but he's got size concerns) and will reach that upside.
2) A 31 year old Martin Erat and a 29/30 year old Toffoli are the same player (Toffoli's probably better).
3) Erat with a cap hit of 4.5 mil (in a 70, 64, 69 mil cap era) and Toffoli with a 2.125 mil cap hit (in a 81.5 mil cap era) is comparable (it very clearly is not).
4) Toffoli will immediately fall of a cliff like Erat.

It was bad trade that ended up looking much worse for Washington. Doesn't mean the outcome was fait accompli.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

That's cool. We're also assuming that:

1) Coronato has the same upside (offensively he does, but he's got size concerns) and will reach that upside.
2) A 31 year old Martin Erat and a 29/30 year old Toffoli are the same player (Toffoli's probably better).
3) Erat with a cap hit of 4.5 mil (in a 70, 64, 69 mil cap era) and Toffoli with a 2.125 mil cap hit (in a 81.5 mil cap era) is comparable (it very clearly is not).
4) Toffoli will immediately fall of a cliff like Erat.

It was bad trade that ended up looking much worse for Washington. Doesn't mean the outcome was fait accompli.

So 1 example from 9 years ago that isn't even accurate at all is your example. Reality is Toffoli will probably get a trade return closer to Trocheck or Kadri value wise

 

[Mersss]

Could see Boston interested in him but no idea what Mtl would want. Debrusk+

Is Lundell coming back the ither way too?

Why are Habs taking a cap dump as the main piece in this deal?

 

[HuGort]

A contender might pay through the nose for a low cost Toffoli.

Like Penguins looking for that one last run with Crosby, Malkin and Letang.

Cup wide open this year. Can see 6 to 8 teams cup caliber. Many teams be interested in good playoff performer like Toffoli. Bidding be high.

 

[CAUFIELD]

Would you retain 50%?

Calgary would be all over that. Would only be 50% for two more seasons after this one. Would easily offer up a 1st + a good prospect. Don’t know the needs.

I don’t think we can retain on Toffoli . We will need to retain on Price and Gallagher to trade them, so we’re not gonna lose a spot on Toffoli. His contract is good enough to not be retained

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

The habs will not be retaining on Toffoli.
Its very absurd to ask for Toffoli at 2 M for the next 2 years.
His contract is already great as it is.

 

[Sparky93]

A goal scorer coming off hand surgery, in another month and you want absolute top dollar. Good luck with that. The Habs are better off holding onto him until next deadline, when retention may be an option. The extra years on the contract are almost detrimental to most contenders. The price becomes not only the cost to acquire but also who they have to give up, in order to fit him on the roster next year.

 

[glenbuis]

Montreal isn't realisticly going to do that though. 1st + B prospect at full cap hit.

this is fair . montreal does not want to tie up a retention spot for two years when it's not necessary

 

[glenbuis]

I don’t think they would be smart to do it on Toffoli unless they get a really big return. Toffoli has value himself and is signed for two more years. I’d much rather trade Toffoli for futures and a cap dump on an existing contract. That way Montreal can eat that cap dump for the rest of the year and be rid of it.

yes and save retention spots for other troubling contracts . toffoli's contract is a good deal as it is .

 

[Captain Mountain]

So 1 example from 9 years ago that isn't even accurate at all is your example. Reality is Toffoli will probably get a trade return closer to Trocheck or Kadri value wise

Without retention? Kadri trade was hockey trade, so that's pretty doubtful. Trochek? That trade was as bad as the Forsberg one. The Tatar trade is far more comparable.

With retention? You're not getting a player like Toffoli with 2.125 mil AAV for 3 playoff runs without paying through the nose.