Player Discussion Tyler Kleven (D) at 44th Overall (Sens traded up)

[Golden_Jet]

He's also a rookie. Poor decisions are kind of a hallmark of defensemen like him who are learning the game at the NHL level.

Correct, that’s why it’s a good idea to watch from the press box for a game or two.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Correct, that’s why it’s a good idea to watch from the press box for a game or two.

For sure. It's just worth mentioning cause sometimes people gloss over the fact that not all defensemen arrive to the NHL, as rookies, fully formed, kinda like Sanderson did.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Kleven does not seem slow when he is defending and closing on opponents but man his straight line speed has shown to be a weakness when he gets passed and beat back up the ice. Just had not been evident before to me. If he can't get back ... he'll have to make adjustments with his decisions to pinch and gap up with no support.

Part of the problem is the no support

 

[Loach]

Kleven does not seem slow when he is defending and closing on opponents but man his straight line speed has shown to be a weakness when he gets passed and beat back up the ice. Just had not been evident before to me. If he can't get back ... he'll have to make adjustments with his decisions to pinch and gap up with no support.

Part of the problem is the no support

I thought he was supposed to be the stable guy for a puck mover. Hammer and JBD aren't puck movers. Is he trying to do too much? Any way we could bring up a guy to try it? Do we have a RD puck mover in the A?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I thought he was supposed to be the stable guy for a puck mover. Hammer and JBD aren't puck movers. Is he trying to do too much? Any way we could bring up a guy to try it? Do we have a RD puck mover in the A?

I really don't think we have the answers in the A... The D depth and D prospects have been a concern for close to 10 years or more

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Graeme highlights some D pair numbers for the past 3 games


This is from the past 4 games. ; The Jensen Chabot pair has fallen off.. The 3rd pair got worse and cost us some important goals.
I am of the opinion that aside from a couple glaring mistakes these results are on the dip in defensive play from the forwards as well.
Realizing they have had trouble scoring .. I think the focus has to remain on team defense and the effort it takes to sustain ozone time and back check to alallow tight gaps and be in position. This group has fallen off the effort levels that showed they can play.

	Player	Player 2	GP	TOI	CF	CA	CF%	FF	FA	FF%	SF	SA	SF%	GF	GA	GF%	xGF	xGA	xGF%	SCF	SCA	SCF%	HDCF	HDCA	HDCF%	HDGF	HDGA	HDGF%	MDCF	MDCA	MDCF%	MDGF	MDGA	MDGF%	LDCF	LDCA	LDCF%	LDGF	LDGA	LDGF%	On-Ice SH%	On-Ice SV%	PDO	Off. Zone Starts	Neu. Zone Starts	Def. Zone Starts	On The Fly Starts	Off. Zone Start %	Off. Zone Faceoffs	Neu. Zone Faceoffs	Def. Zone Faceoffs	Off. Zone Faceoff %
1	Jake Sanderson	Artem Zub	4	48:45	41	35	53.95	29	28	50.88	21	16	56.76	0	2	0.00	1.66	1.32	55.73	17	19	47.22	8	4	66.67	0	1	0.00	9	15	37.50	0	1	0.00	30	25	54.55	0	0	-	0.00	87.50	0.875	6	13	13	19	31.58	14	16	24	36.84
2	Nick Jensen	Thomas Chabot	4	46:45	38	53	41.76	29	40	42.03	18	30	37.50	1	3	25.00	1.32	2.78	32.14	15	26	36.59	6	13	31.58	1	2	33.33	9	13	40.91	0	0	-	28	35	44.44	0	1	0.00	5.56	90.00	0.956	9	12	6	22	60.00	19	15	15	55.88
3	Travis Hamonic	Tyler Kleven	3	22:30	13	23	36.11	5	17	22.73	3	11	21.43	0	1	0.00	0.11	0.55	16.66	2	11	15.38	0	1	0.00	0	0	-	2	10	16.67	0	1	0.00	8	10	44.44	0	0	-	0.00	90.91	0.909	1	6	2	12	33.33	9	7	4	69.23
4	Travis Hamonic	Thomas Chabot	3	10:27	18	8	69.23	12	7	63.16	10	7	58.82	0	0	-	0.62	0.22	74.05	7	5	58.33	2	1	66.67	0	0	-	5	4	55.56	0	0	-	10	3	76.92	0	0	-	0.00	100.00	1.000	0	1	0	15	-	4	2	0	100.00
5	Nick Jensen	Tyler Kleven	4	8:56	7	4	63.64	4	4	50.00	2	4	33.33	1	0	100.00	0.19	0.08	70.76	3	1	75.00	1	0	100.00	0	0	-	2	1	66.67	1	0	100.00	5	3	62.50	0	0	-	50.00	100.00	1.500	1	0	0	12	100.00	3	3	1	75.00
6	Jacob Bernard-Docker	Tyler Kleven	1	8:23	8	12	40.00	5	9	35.71	4	7	36.36	0	2	0.00	0.16	1.12	12.59	2	8	20.00	0	3	0.00	0	2	0.00	2	5	28.57	0	0	-	5	7	41.67	0	0	-	0.00	71.43	0.714	0	4	3	5	0.00	1	6	4	20.00
7	Thomas Chabot	Jake Sanderson	4	7:44	12	10	54.55	8	7	53.33	7	4	63.64	1	1	50.00	0.64	0.44	59.41	8	7	53.33	3	3	50.00	0	1	0.00	5	4	55.56	1	0	100.00	8	2	80.00	0	0	-	14.29	75.00	0.893	6	1	1	1	85.71	8	1	1	88.89
8	Tyler Kleven	Artem Zub	4	6:01	5	5	50.00	5	3	62.50	1	2	33.33	0	2	0.00	0.26	0.23	53.04	3	5	37.50	0	2	0.00	0	2	0.00	3	3	50.00	0	0	-	3	0	100.00	0	0	-	0.00	0.00	0.000	1	1	0	7	100.00	1	1	1	50.00
9	Travis Hamonic	Jake Sanderson	3	4:50	11	0	100.00	10	0	100.00	8	0	100.00	0	0	-	0.63	0	100.00	6	0	100.00	3	0	100.00	0	0	-	3	0	100.00	0	0	-	3	2	60.00	0	0	-	0.00	-	0.00	0	0	1	10	0.00	0	0	4	0.00
10	Thomas Chabot	Artem Zub	4	3:57	8	1	88.89	8	1	88.89	7	1	87.50	0	0	-	0.46	0.05	90.76	4	0	100.00	0	0	-	0	0	-	4	0	100.00	0	0	-	4	1	80.00	0	0	-	0.00	100.00	1.000	0	0	0	13	-	0	0	0	-
11	Nick Jensen	Artem Zub	4	3:42	1	6	14.29	1	4	20.00	0	4	0.00	0	0	-	0.1	0.39	19.73	1	2	33.33	1	2	33.33	0	0	-	0	0	-	0	0	-	0	3	0.00	0	0	-	-	100.00	1.00	0	0	0	13	-	0	0	1	0.00
12	Travis Hamonic	Artem Zub	3	2:43	2	4	33.33	1	2	33.33	1	2	33.33	0	0	-	0.05	0.25	15.69	2	2	50.00	0	1	0.00	0	0	-	2	1	66.67	0	0	-	0	3	0.00	0	0	-	0.00	100.00	1.000	0	0	0	3	-	0	0	1	0.00
13	Nick Jensen	Jake Sanderson	4	2:20	6	1	85.71	4	1	80.00	3	0	100.00	0	0	-	0.24	0.01	95.00	3	0	100.00	1	0	100.00	0	0	-	2	0	100.00	0	0	-	3	1	75.00	0	0	-	0.00	-	0.00	0	0	0	10	-	0	0	0	-
14	Tyler Kleven	Jake Sanderson	4	0:10	3	0	100.00	2	0	100.00	0	0	-	0	0	-	0.14	0	100.00	2	0	100.00	1	0	100.00	0	0	-	1	0	100.00	0	0	-	1	0	100.00	0	0	-	-	-	-	0	0	0	5	-	0	0	0	-

 

[Loach]

Graeme highlights some D pair numbers for the past 3 games


This is from the past 4 games. ; The Jensen Chabot pair has fallen off.. The 3rd pair got worse and cost us some important goals.
I am of the opinion that aside from a couple glaring mistakes these results are on the dip in defensive play from the forwards as well.
Realizing they have had trouble scoring .. I think the focus has to remain on team defense and the effort it takes to sustain ozone time and back check to alallow tight gaps and be in position. This group has fallen off the effort levels that showed they can play.

	Player	Player 2	GP	TOI	CF	CA	CF%	FF	FA	FF%	SF	SA	SF%	GF	GA	GF%	xGF	xGA	xGF%	SCF	SCA	SCF%	HDCF	HDCA	HDCF%	HDGF	HDGA	HDGF%	MDCF	MDCA	MDCF%	MDGF	MDGA	MDGF%	LDCF	LDCA	LDCF%	LDGF	LDGA	LDGF%	On-Ice SH%	On-Ice SV%	PDO	Off. Zone Starts	Neu. Zone Starts	Def. Zone Starts	On The Fly Starts	Off. Zone Start %	Off. Zone Faceoffs	Neu. Zone Faceoffs	Def. Zone Faceoffs	Off. Zone Faceoff %
1	Jake Sanderson	Artem Zub	4	48:45	41	35	53.95	29	28	50.88	21	16	56.76	0	2	0.00	1.66	1.32	55.73	17	19	47.22	8	4	66.67	0	1	0.00	9	15	37.50	0	1	0.00	30	25	54.55	0	0	-	0.00	87.50	0.875	6	13	13	19	31.58	14	16	24	36.84
2	Nick Jensen	Thomas Chabot	4	46:45	38	53	41.76	29	40	42.03	18	30	37.50	1	3	25.00	1.32	2.78	32.14	15	26	36.59	6	13	31.58	1	2	33.33	9	13	40.91	0	0	-	28	35	44.44	0	1	0.00	5.56	90.00	0.956	9	12	6	22	60.00	19	15	15	55.88
3	Travis Hamonic	Tyler Kleven	3	22:30	13	23	36.11	5	17	22.73	3	11	21.43	0	1	0.00	0.11	0.55	16.66	2	11	15.38	0	1	0.00	0	0	-	2	10	16.67	0	1	0.00	8	10	44.44	0	0	-	0.00	90.91	0.909	1	6	2	12	33.33	9	7	4	69.23
4	Travis Hamonic	Thomas Chabot	3	10:27	18	8	69.23	12	7	63.16	10	7	58.82	0	0	-	0.62	0.22	74.05	7	5	58.33	2	1	66.67	0	0	-	5	4	55.56	0	0	-	10	3	76.92	0	0	-	0.00	100.00	1.000	0	1	0	15	-	4	2	0	100.00
5	Nick Jensen	Tyler Kleven	4	8:56	7	4	63.64	4	4	50.00	2	4	33.33	1	0	100.00	0.19	0.08	70.76	3	1	75.00	1	0	100.00	0	0	-	2	1	66.67	1	0	100.00	5	3	62.50	0	0	-	50.00	100.00	1.500	1	0	0	12	100.00	3	3	1	75.00
6	Jacob Bernard-Docker	Tyler Kleven	1	8:23	8	12	40.00	5	9	35.71	4	7	36.36	0	2	0.00	0.16	1.12	12.59	2	8	20.00	0	3	0.00	0	2	0.00	2	5	28.57	0	0	-	5	7	41.67	0	0	-	0.00	71.43	0.714	0	4	3	5	0.00	1	6	4	20.00
7	Thomas Chabot	Jake Sanderson	4	7:44	12	10	54.55	8	7	53.33	7	4	63.64	1	1	50.00	0.64	0.44	59.41	8	7	53.33	3	3	50.00	0	1	0.00	5	4	55.56	1	0	100.00	8	2	80.00	0	0	-	14.29	75.00	0.893	6	1	1	1	85.71	8	1	1	88.89
8	Tyler Kleven	Artem Zub	4	6:01	5	5	50.00	5	3	62.50	1	2	33.33	0	2	0.00	0.26	0.23	53.04	3	5	37.50	0	2	0.00	0	2	0.00	3	3	50.00	0	0	-	3	0	100.00	0	0	-	0.00	0.00	0.000	1	1	0	7	100.00	1	1	1	50.00
9	Travis Hamonic	Jake Sanderson	3	4:50	11	0	100.00	10	0	100.00	8	0	100.00	0	0	-	0.63	0	100.00	6	0	100.00	3	0	100.00	0	0	-	3	0	100.00	0	0	-	3	2	60.00	0	0	-	0.00	-	0.00	0	0	1	10	0.00	0	0	4	0.00
10	Thomas Chabot	Artem Zub	4	3:57	8	1	88.89	8	1	88.89	7	1	87.50	0	0	-	0.46	0.05	90.76	4	0	100.00	0	0	-	0	0	-	4	0	100.00	0	0	-	4	1	80.00	0	0	-	0.00	100.00	1.000	0	0	0	13	-	0	0	0	-
11	Nick Jensen	Artem Zub	4	3:42	1	6	14.29	1	4	20.00	0	4	0.00	0	0	-	0.1	0.39	19.73	1	2	33.33	1	2	33.33	0	0	-	0	0	-	0	0	-	0	3	0.00	0	0	-	-	100.00	1.00	0	0	0	13	-	0	0	1	0.00
12	Travis Hamonic	Artem Zub	3	2:43	2	4	33.33	1	2	33.33	1	2	33.33	0	0	-	0.05	0.25	15.69	2	2	50.00	0	1	0.00	0	0	-	2	1	66.67	0	0	-	0	3	0.00	0	0	-	0.00	100.00	1.000	0	0	0	3	-	0	0	1	0.00
13	Nick Jensen	Jake Sanderson	4	2:20	6	1	85.71	4	1	80.00	3	0	100.00	0	0	-	0.24	0.01	95.00	3	0	100.00	1	0	100.00	0	0	-	2	0	100.00	0	0	-	3	1	75.00	0	0	-	0.00	-	0.00	0	0	0	10	-	0	0	0	-
14	Tyler Kleven	Jake Sanderson	4	0:10	3	0	100.00	2	0	100.00	0	0	-	0	0	-	0.14	0	100.00	2	0	100.00	1	0	100.00	0	0	-	1	0	100.00	0	0	-	1	0	100.00	0	0	-	-	-	-	0	0	0	5	-	0	0	0	-

Chabot sucks. Who knew?

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Kleven needs to watch from pressbox for a game or 2. Too many poor decisions lately.

I agree but we don't really have anyone to slot in at LD. He's been bad lately but he's also being asked to carry a pairing (whether it's JBD or Hamonic) and that's not a reasonable expectation for him. Our third pairing was always an issue and Kleven having some rookie struggles has just amplified that and it's costing us goals pretty regularly.

We should have either got an experienced LD to platoon with Kleven or upgraded on our 3RD to take some pressure off of him. He'll bounce back but seeing the game from the outside would help right now, IMO.

 

[BigRig4]

Kleven does not seem slow when he is defending and closing on opponents but man his straight line speed has shown to be a weakness when he gets passed and beat back up the ice. Just had not been evident before to me. If he can't get back ... he'll have to make adjustments with his decisions to pinch and gap up with no support.

Part of the problem is the no support

It sucks cause he started so well. Not sure what happened to him the last 5 games - although you could ask that same question of almost everyone.

 

[Larionov]

In hindsight, walking away from Brannstrom might not have been the most savvy move Staios ever made. Branny isn't winning the Norris, but he could have been a stable LHD on the third pairing while Kleven learned the pro game in Belleville. Now we are faced with a situation where we will have to either give up an asset to find a veteran LHD, or scour the waiver wire for one. Not ideal. Bottom line is that Kleven is getting caved in out there, and rolling him out every night without another option for that spot is management malpractice...

 

[DrEasy]

In hindsight, walking away from Brannstrom might not have been the most savvy move Staios ever made. Branny isn't winning the Norris, but he could have been a stable LHD on the third pairing while Kleven learned the pro game in Belleville. Now we are faced with a situation where we will have to either give up an asset to find a veteran LHD, or scour the waiver wire for one. Not ideal. Bottom line is that Kleven is getting caved in out there, and rolling him out every night without another option for that spot is management malpractice...

In hindsight?

 

[Alf Silfversson]

In hindsight, walking away from Brannstrom might not have been the most savvy move Staios ever made. Branny isn't winning the Norris, but he could have been a stable LHD on the third pairing while Kleven learned the pro game in Belleville. Now we are faced with a situation where we will have to either give up an asset to find a veteran LHD, or scour the waiver wire for one. Not ideal. Bottom line is that Kleven is getting caved in out there, and rolling him out every night without another option for that spot is management malpractice...

We could have extended Brannstrom before his QO was due for less than his QO (assuming he would have accepted), but he clearly wasn't in the plans. He would have been helpful to have right now, much like he's helping the Canucks but I don't think our management ever really entertained the idea.

He wasn't the only option though. Instead of signing a player like Cousins I would have preferred some experienced D depth at the end of the FA period.

 

[bicboi64]

We could have extended Brannstrom before his QO was due for less than his QO (assuming he would have accepted), but he clearly wasn't in the plans. He would have been helpful to have right now, much like he's helping the Canucks but I don't think our management ever really entertained the idea.

He wasn't the only option though. Instead of signing a player like Cousins I would have preferred some experienced D depth at the end of the FA period.

Really wish Dorion signed him to a multi-year deal slightly less than $2 million the way guys like Liljegren were signed to. Could've kept him as a solid 3rd pairing guy and not gambled on a rookie not crumbling 20 games into the year

 

[Xspyrit]

In hindsight, walking away from Brannstrom might not have been the most savvy move Staios ever made. Branny isn't winning the Norris, but he could have been a stable LHD on the third pairing while Kleven learned the pro game in Belleville. Now we are faced with a situation where we will have to either give up an asset to find a veteran LHD, or scour the waiver wire for one. Not ideal. Bottom line is that Kleven is getting caved in out there, and rolling him out every night without another option for that spot is management malpractice...

There's no hindsight here, in fact there's not a lot of it most of the time. Things are predictable if you make the right observations. Like with Brannstrom, I have been beating this drum for more than 2 years.

He was perfect to keep : play him on RD when no one is injured, then on LD when a LHD is injured...

Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Jensen
Kleven - Brannstrom
JBD

Let's say Chabot gets injured :

Sanderson - Jensen
Brannstrom - Zub
Kleven - JBD
Hamonic

That said, Hamonic NMC has really f***ed us, the only way to move him was to pay to trade him. I would have much preferred to keep Joseph instead of signing Amadio, another drum I have been beating.

 

[Micklebot]

There's no hindsight here, in fact there's not a lot of it most of the time. Things are predictable if you make the right observations. Like with Brannstrom, I have been beating this drum for more than 2 years.

He was perfect to keep : play him on RD when no one is injured, then on LD when a LHD is injured...

Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Jensen
Kleven - Brannstrom
JBD

Let's say Chabot gets injured :

Sanderson - Jensen
Brannstrom - Zub
Kleven - JBD
Hamonic

That said, Hamonic NMC has really f***ed us, the only way to move him was to pay to trade him. I would have much preferred to keep Joseph instead of signing Amadio, another drum I have been beating.

So that first D group puts us over the cap giving Brannstrom his QO with a 21 man roster unless we disappear Hamonic or change something else. Keeping Joseph over Amadio just makes the cap situation worse.

I'm not sure what peoples obsession with Brannstrom is, we lost plenty of games with him in the lineup, he isn't changing our fortunes.

 

[bicboi64]

I'm not sure what peoples obsession with Brannstrom is, we lost plenty of games with him in the lineup, he isn't changing our fortunes.

The cap situation with the QO made it difficult to keep him, but Brannstrom is a tangible upgrade over Kleven, JBD, and Hamonic. It's not an obsession as much as wishing we hold onto good players.

It'd be nice to have a guy who can play well in the 3rd pairing, even with sheltered minutes (which Kleven-Hamonic, Kleven-JBD pairings) have received.

 

[SensHulk]

I think SS also did Branny a favor and let him bet on himself. He still moved around a bit but seems to have found a good fit in Vancouver. We’ll see how long it lasts but good for him and quite frankly good for Staios to move along on both sides

 

[Tundraman]

Kleven needed another year in the AHl. He's often pinched with no support. I don't know if that's a;ways on him or a forward not backing him up but he needs to learn that. IMO, they rushed him because of Hamonic and JBD.

 

[Hale The Villain]

He's had a rough go of it lately after starting off tremendously well.

I said during the summer there would be ups and downs with a rookie D like him and that we should have added more depth on defense in case Kleven needed to sit now and then.

Going into the season with Roos and Davies as the only insurance at LD was absolutely unacceptable.

 

[Sting]

He's had a rough go of it lately after starting off tremendously well.

I said during the summer there would be ups and downs with a rookie D like him and that we should have added more depth on defense in case Kleven needed to sit now and then.

Going into the season with Roos and Davies as the only insurance at LD was absolutely unacceptable.

To be fair it's kind of slim pickings out there. We have a destroyed prospect pool to begin with, but it's not as if there are or were any guys that would be better.

 

[Loach]

Kleven needed another year in the AHl. He's often pinched with no support. I don't know if that's a;ways on him or a forward not backing him up but he needs to learn that. IMO, they rushed him because of Hamonic and JBD.

I think he tries to push the offense because his partners can't. It's nit his thing.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I think he tries to push the offense because his partners can't. It's nit his thing.

For sure. And he tries to too much of everything because his partner(s) are not good.

He can't carry a pairing at this stage of his career. He needs a good partner so he can just play to his strengths. Not excusing his recent play but too much has been expected of him.

 

[Loach]

For sure. And he tries to too much of everything because his partner(s) are not good.

He can't carry a pairing at this stage of his career. He needs a good partner so he can just play to his strengths. Not excusing his recent play but too much has been expected of him.

Maybe if Zub was healthy it would be different and the pairs woukdn't be all amuck.

 

[Tundraman]

I think he tries to push the offense because his partners can't. It's nit his thing.

It's really not on Kleven. Doing a proper top-down team assessment would derail this thread but in the real world he should have been a part time # 6 and # 7 or a frequent injury call up.