Tuna99
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- Sep 26, 2009
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Player Discussion Tyler Kleven (D) at 44th Overall (Sens traded up)
- Thread starter IceColdOx
- Start date
RickyLafleur
Fall of Pierre
He would look on the top pairing, that's for sure. Logan did have some red flags about him, which may have been skating or health-related. I remember him being one of the more "boom or bust types". Hard to say what my exact feelings were about him at the time as I can't quite remember.
Sens of Anarchy
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- Jul 9, 2013
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They traded up for Brown too. I remember sort of making fun of NJD fans at the time with their taking Michael McLeod. Everyone would want McLeod now. Funny how things work out... Brown certainly looked like he had all kinds of potential that never really took hold for several possible reasons.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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Felt a bit like we were drafting for position, we wanted the next Spezza, and had apparently lost faith in Zibanejad, I loved the pick at the time, obviously in hindsight there were some guys that would have been preferable, ironically I wanted him or Chychrun that year. Kind of got both eventually...
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
There was no problem with this team outside of Melnyk before Dorion put his footprint. His first trade was Zibanejad + 2nd for Brassard and it all went downhill from there. Sure we weren't contenders before that but since making the finals in 2007 with a one line-team, we made the playoffs 6 times in the next 10 years with 3 rounds won and an ECF (not much credit to Dorion as it was Murray's team). The difference is we never got to rebuild after the team took a nosedive in 2008-09, yet Murray rebuilt it on the fly and we had at least some mitigated success. Remember we couldn't rebuild as long as Alfie was playing... So I don't see the problem before 2017-18, what we needed is making that 2016-17 even better but with Melnyk and Dorion, I think it was just not possible (plus Karlsson-Hoffman saga and tons of injuries, etc)
But looking at the last 10 drafts (so 2014 to 2023)
2014 : was seen as a weak draft, we traded our 1st and got Bobby Ryan who played 455 games for this team and scored 266 pts, which could have been better if he didn't ran into a bunch of injuries (plus personal problems). Sure it took years but Englund seems to be doing well for the Kings now. Is Ryan + Englund good vs that quality of draft? I don't know but not bad at all. I won't count it as a good draft since Ryan wasn't a pick
2015 : just getting Chabot at 18th OA is a homerun in itself. We also got White, Chlapik, Wolanin, Jaros and Daccord who were all pretty good prospects at some point and played in the NHL. Daccord seems to be establishing himself as a NHLer right now. Not sure what happened with White but he should be a bottom-6 forward, sure Dorion totally overpaid him and that kinda derailed his trajectory but surprising he's not in the NHL right now
2016 : first draft with Dorion as the GM, there was hope with Brown, Dahlen and Lajoie but not much out of that draft in the end
2017 : Formenton and Batherson, excellent. Sucks that Formenton is a possible a-hole but can't blame that on Dorion/Sens
2018 : Tkachuk was a 4th OA pick yes but that makes it an automatic great draft for the team. JBD, Crookshank and possibly Mandolese makes it an even better draft for Ottawa
2019 : Pinto in the 2nd was a homerun (if he starts playing lol), Sogaard another possible homerun. Kastelic and Guenette were good picks too, the quality of this draft haul remains to be seen but seems like a good draft for us. Thomson has talent, who knows if ever finds more self-confidence
2020 : one of the best draft hauls by a single team in NHL history
2021 : Ostapchuk might be the only hope, maybe Boucher ends up as an useful 4th liner. Awful draft so far but depending on these 2... it might change
2022 : Pettersson, Halliday and Donovan are good/decent prospects but the hopes are thin at the moment, for sure. Traded our 1st and 2nd for DeBrincat...
2023 : Andonovski looks promising, maybe some of the others will surprise but could easily be another bust draft. Traded our 1st for Chychrun too
2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 were good drafts. The last 3 are still huge question marks
Only 2014 and 2016 were bad and possibly the last 3 (way too early to know)
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
So it's not just Batherson like you initially claimed...
Formenton, Pinto, Greig... all would have been or will be good/great players.
As for the rest, I think you are drawing conclusions quite fast.
Bernard-Docker is just starting to play and is 23 y/o, IMO he will have a long career as an efficient defensive D-man, will not put the pts that will make him earn big money so a cheap reliable D-man. Not awesome for a late first but not bad at all.
Sogaard turned 23 y/o this month... still very young for a goalie, some break out in their late 20's. He's still progressing and has a lot of potential
Kastelic is a success 5th rounder, he's big, elite on face-offs and properly coached can be an effective 4th liner as long as he is physical and defend his teammates. He has a bit of a goal scoring touch too (early for Crookshank but he could be another success 5th round pick)
Guenette also look like a future very successful 7th round pick. I mean, most 7th rounders usually don't even sniff being as good as he has been in the AHL. He's only 22 y/o, still early but his development suggest he will play in the NHL (hope they get rid of Hamonic and he's on the team next season)
Jarventie is also very young... 21 y/o since August only... Look at this route, did very well everywhere in men's league, now is starting to produce at a PPG pace in the AHL. His overall game has been progressing a lot too.
Kleven will also be a NHLer, how good remains to be seen but he has a pretty nice toolset and think he can be a Top-4 D-man, just 21 y/o as well.
Merilainen is also just 21 y/o, very young for a goalie... pretty good pro stats in general so far, has shown a lot of potential already
So a minimum of 3 very good picks outside of Batherson and many still in evaluation process, most are 21 y/o and under
As for the last 3 drafts, I agree, we might end up with 2 good bottom-6 forwards (Ostapchuk and Pettersson) and 2 decent bottom-pairing D-men (Andonovski and Donovan)? Too early to say but hard to see these drafts becoming "good drafts" for us
Another thing we might agree is that Dorion was completely out of his league as a GM but drafting is not on top of my list of reasons. Dilapidating assets like a madman at a casino would be a reason over the drafting quality
Spent a 3rd in the Ceci trade, got Connor Brown back, who we finally traded for a 2nd but had to take Zaitsev contract which we paid for year until Dorion finally moved it at a cost of a 2nd + 4th. Got a 3rd for DeMelo
Have none of DeMelo, Ceci or Zaitsev and lost a 4th in the process lol
Both DeMelo and Ceci are doing quite well on their respective teams.
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DeMelo has been fine, but Ceci is sheltered and quite bad on Edmonton.
Having said that, I'd have taken one season of Ceci over the extended chances we gave Zaitsev
That's kind of misleading. Some of that draft capital was used to acquire Chychrun. Some used to acquire DeBrincat. We struck out re-signing DeBrincat. Hopefully Chychrun stays.
RickyLafleur
Fall of Pierre
You are severely overrating the potential of the players you listed above. Ottawa does not have a single top affiliated prospect with any single publication. I already said that Formenton was good, but will likely never play in the NHL again. I also already stated that Pinto and Grieg are looking like good picks so far.
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Yeah passing on Kleven for a greater need is exactly the type of thinking that led to mistakes like the Roger pick.
Poster is being influenced by a heavy dose of hindsight.
Golden_Jet
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Dan Patrick
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- Mar 11, 2020
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Mainly just commenting a lot of non Klevin talk.
Honestly think he’s have a solid rookie pro season. I think he will be pushing for that bottom pairing LD spot next year which is awesome to see.
I think Brannstrom will be the oddman out and an easy piece to move come deadline because of the strides Kleven has made in his development.
I think that there was pretty prevalent worries that we were toiling in mediocrity for a long time. I think there was lots wrong with the team all the way through Murray’s reign and into Dorion’s. We weren’t contenders and were trending down. Murray never seemed willing or able to make the moves we needed to take the next step, instead we toiled.
The absolute best thing for us was the rebuild when it was announced. It was the one thing that a team could do somewhat properly while also heavily prioritizing saving money for the owner. Regardless of your hate for PD, he did a fine job getting our core players if nothing else. It could have, should have, would have, been better if we had a different owner and manager perhaps, but we didn’t. Based on what and who we had, the core looks pretty good.
If we had continued to try to ice a regular team through entirety of EM’s budget years, we would still have done nothing and have little to show for it. People already proclaimed the one playoff run as lucky, it’s as good as things were going to get.
Yeah we shed assets and picks for cash that we’ll never get back, that sucks, but the new ownership and management has a wealth of high quality young players to work with, a couple high draft picks to use, and higher class of management group to steer the ship.
PD picking Brady over Zadina, and Stu over anyone else alone gets him a high five from me now that we have a new crew taking it from here. I haven’t felt like we have the room to build a championship team since the cap came into play and we had to start dismantling our legendary squad.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
DeMelo has been more than fine, he's WPG #2 right now and is doing really well.
Ceci is not as good but has been good with Pittsburgh and now Edmonton in a reduced role. The problem is more the way we used in his last 3 seasons in Ottawa, he's obviously not a Top-10 shutdown D-men in the league
ok so the only way a pick can be successful is if he becomes a top affiliated prospect in a publication?
Remember you said "Outside of Batherson, our drafting has been abysmal when you don't factor in top 5 picks"
Formenton, Pinto, Greig : ok so we agree that they were all pretty good picks
That's already 3. For the rest, I am not "overrating their potential", I am listing the guys that could still end up as good picks even though if you already declared all these picks "abysmal"
Kastelic and Guenette are already successful picks based on where they were picked but ok they won't move the needle all that much
Kleven, Jarventie and Sogaard are our 3 best prospects left. You don't think they have a chance to be good players?
Bernard-Docker is already playing in the NHL and has shown good things. Sure he plays on a really bad team but he's fine individually. Merilainen is a 21 y/o goalie, wayyyyy too soon to declare him as a bust.
So what I am trying to say and you seem to resist is that our drafting outside of Batherson and top-5 picks has not been "abysmal" (before the last 3 drafts). I see 3 other really good picks, 3 very good young prospects, a couple of depth guys and a young developing D-man plus a young goalie prospect.
But anyway agree to disagree if you want, seems like you won't rectify your initial position
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PlayersLtd
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- Mar 6, 2019
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And the Thomson pick which ironically is what that guy is arguing without even knowing it. Wanted us to prioritize RHD which we did with Thomson and it backfired. Not sure how he doesn't see that contradiction.
He tied himself in knots talking out of both sides of his mouth the last two pages.
Brown was probably the BPA at 12.
Incredible skill in a 6'6 frame and he put up excellent numbers in his draft year.
We gambled that he'd mature, stop being lazy, and improve his footspeed, as if he had done so we'd have gotten a #1 center out of him.
Have zero problem with the pick, even in hindsight.
Alf Silfversson
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- Jun 8, 2011
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Kleven looked like a fish out of water in the NHL this year. I think he deserves a shot with a real NHL coach but there is still a tonne of work to be done there to make him a an NHL player who makes a positive impact, IMO.
Those who say we should have drafted Faber have a strong case. And then some.
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
- 35,472
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Best to leave Kleven in the AHL for the rest of the season. He needs slow and steady development. Not the yo yo thing between the NHL and AHL.
coladin
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- Sep 18, 2009
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Kevin Bahl from the Devils last night was pretty solid and they said he spent 100 games in the minors. No rushing him is the best thing. That massive college like hit he laid the other night? Just a sign that he is adapting to the pro game. He was never in a good position to hit anyone before. Game is slowing down for him which is development
Lol, Ceci takes the hardest minutes in Edmonton, has for three years. He is thrown to the wolves on a nightly basis. Yet still is scoring average mid 20's, a level that is solidly second pairing numbers (his even strength numbers the last three years are just behind Chabots). And he does not turn the puck over and generally will have the fewest GA/60 on the team.
This anti-Ceci narrative has never stood up to the actual facts, he's a very solid defensive player who puts up second pairing offense despite playing terrible minutes. But because he does not throw big hits, people think he's not useful defensively. He would definitely help out this team a lot.
Sens in Process
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- Oct 1, 2012
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Watching B-sens over the holiday, Kleven is really finding his stride and trending toward being a force in the AHL. He really has some underrated offensive potential. He looked awesome in 3 on 3 OT - so big and mobile but also sees and thinks the game pretty well. He is definitely going to be a top 4 NHL D-man, who puts up some surprising offensive numbers.
Kleven is not Ceci. He processes the game much faster. But I agree, I would give him a full season in the AHL.
Kleven is not Ceci. He processes the game much faster. But I agree, I would give him a full season in the AHL.
God Says No
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- Mar 16, 2012
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Yeah, he needs to spend the whole year in AHL playing meaningful minutes. And some posters (lol Icebucket), thought he would never play a game in the AHL last year.
Kleven with 2 assists in todays 4-2 win over Toronto.
His stats are 1g 7a 8pts in 17 games for BSens
His stats are 1g 7a 8pts in 17 games for BSens
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