Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (RW/LW) - Don`t sleep on Tyler Boucher

Larionov

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Feb 9, 2005
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Ottawa, ON
Those of us who are, err, a little older may recall Hockey Canada taking Rob Zamuner on the 1998 Olympic Team to fill a checking role, and leaving Messier at home. Now, Messier was in the definite twilight of his career, but taking a journeyman checking winger over a Hall of Famer was certainly a choice. @Alf Silfversson is absolutely correct - don't overthink it and just take the best players. If they need to, they'll learn how to play in the bottom six. Heck, Zack Ostapchuk did it twice for Team Canada at the World Juniors, transitioning from a top six role with his club team to a bottom six role at the Worlds. He did it perfectly.

Yet you see Hockey Canada do this every few years with the World Junior team - they leave a top scorer at home because they want "character", "skating" blah blah. Every time they do it, it blows up in their face and they learn not to do it, until they forget the lesson and do it again...
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
56,549
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Those of us who are, err, a little older may recall Hockey Canada taking Rob Zamuner on the 1998 Olympic Team to fill a checking role, and leaving Messier at home. Now, Messier was in the definite twilight of his career, but taking a journeyman checking winger over a Hall of Famer was certainly a choice. @Alf Silfversson is absolutely correct - don't overthink it and just take the best players. If they need to, they'll learn how to play in the bottom six. Heck, Zack Ostapchuk did it twice for Team Canada at the World Juniors, transitioning from a top six role with his club team to a bottom six role at the Worlds. He did it perfectly.

Yet you see Hockey Canada do this every few years with the World Junior team - they leave a top scorer at home because they want "character", "skating" blah blah. Every time they do it, it blows up in their face and they learn not to do it, until they forget the lesson and do it again...
To be fair, Olympic sized ice makes skating a bigger concern, I don't remember how fleet of foot messy face was in 98, but if he was too deep into the bag of lays chips I can understand the decision...
 

BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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Those of us who are, err, a little older may recall Hockey Canada taking Rob Zamuner on the 1998 Olympic Team to fill a checking role, and leaving Messier at home. Now, Messier was in the definite twilight of his career, but taking a journeyman checking winger over a Hall of Famer was certainly a choice. @Alf Silfversson is absolutely correct - don't overthink it and just take the best players. If they need to, they'll learn how to play in the bottom six. Heck, Zack Ostapchuk did it twice for Team Canada at the World Juniors, transitioning from a top six role with his club team to a bottom six role at the Worlds. He did it perfectly.

Yet you see Hockey Canada do this every few years with the World Junior team - they leave a top scorer at home because they want "character", "skating" blah blah. Every time they do it, it blows up in their face and they learn not to do it, until they forget the lesson and do it again...
Ostapchuk was one of the guys you just described them taking instead of the top scorers.
 

OgieO

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May 17, 2006
5,297
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Zamuner, Corson, Trever f***ing Linden... Messier probably should have that team. Messier was still a top 35 scorer and still moved well enough but there were other guys that also would have helped. Not sure it would have mattered though, Hasek beat us.
 

Alf Silfversson

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Jun 8, 2011
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Ostapchuk was one of the guys you just described them taking instead of the top scorers.

I mean, just looking at the WHL (and a little CHL) I'm not sure any "top scorers" were available after Ostapchuk in that draft. Outside of Stankoven that is. And I'd love to have Stankoven in the system right now.

The sample size for CHL kids was so small that year but around Ostapchuk's draft slot I don't see a tonne of prolific scorers.
 

BondraTime

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I mean, just looking at the WHL (and a little CHL) I'm not sure any "top scorers" were available after Ostapchuk in that draft. Outside of Stankoven that is. And I'd love to have Stankoven in the system right now.

The sample size for CHL kids was so small that year but around Ostapchuk's draft slot I don't see a tonne of prolific scorers.
A guy like Matt Savoie was taken in the top 10 and had 90 points and never made the team in Ostapchuks first year. Lots of high scoring drafted players in the CHL that season and Ostapchuk was brought in as a big bodied, defensively responsible player.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

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Oct 16, 2006
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I was pretty happy with some of those Canadian 1998 decisions since it helped Hasek and the Czech Republic take it home. That was one hell of a team.
 

Alf Silfversson

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Jun 8, 2011
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A guy like Matt Savoie was taken in the top 10 and had 90 points and never made the team in Ostapchuks first year. Lots of high scoring drafted players in the CHL that season and Ostapchuk was brought in as a big bodied, defensively responsible player.
Ahh. My bad. I thought you were saying the Sens took Ostapchuk over top scorers in the draft.
 
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DrEasy

Out rumptackling
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Oct 3, 2010
11,358
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Stützville
I was honestly just looking for a way to take a crack at his lays chips commercials...
Is Messier the only NHL player who can actually *act* convincingly in a TV commercial? Maybe Daigle could too, but I don't think he ever got that opportunity...
 

ottawah

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Jan 7, 2011
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Based on McKenzie's rankings at the time of the 2021 draft, Boucher was expected to go somewhere from the tail end of the first round to mid second round. It is a more reasonable spot for a prospect who demonstrates flashes of ability but needs a lot of development.

However it is always with a huge grain of salt I look at McKenzies rankings. He does not rank players. He tries to determine where they will go based on the opinion of 10 scouts. Its not a large sample size, and one or two scouts over-valueing a player would cause massive move in his "ranking". McKenzie might be the most accurate for predicting the draft (as that is his intention), but I tend to favor the lists that use actual scouts that are not team affiliated as teams needs and history can skew his results.

Generally Boucher was ranked at about 45-50 with the non-affiliated scouting services. Nothing he has done since being drafted has indicated that 45-50 would not have been an unfair spot to have been drafted at. Those scouts seem to have gotten it correct.
 

Golden_Jet

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Sep 21, 2005
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However it is always with a huge grain of salt I look at McKenzies rankings. He does not rank players. He tries to determine where they will go based on the opinion of 10 scouts. Its not a large sample size, and one or two scouts over-valueing a player would cause massive move in his "ranking". McKenzie might be the most accurate for predicting the draft (as that is his intention), but I tend to favor the lists that use actual scouts that are not team affiliated as teams needs and history can skew his results.

Generally Boucher was ranked at about 45-50 with the non-affiliated scouting services. Nothing he has done since being drafted has indicated that 45-50 would not have been an unfair spot to have been drafted at. Those scouts seem to have gotten it correct.
Yet you say McKenzie is most accurate, but take with a grain of salt. So he likely had Boucher ranked in the correct range then.
Plus we already heard reports NYR were interested at pick 16.
 
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ottawah

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Jan 7, 2011
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Yet you say McKenzie is most accurate, but take with a grain of salt. So he likely had Boucher ranked in the correct range then.
Plus we already heard reports NYR were interested at pick 16.
Not at all.

What I am saying is just because a team or two had him highly ranked due to their need does not at all mean its representative of the player himself. I prefer to look at the lists that ranks players by how good they are expected to be, not where they are drafted. Those lists had him as a late second round pick, and obviously they are right.

If, for example a rangers and a sen scout are on McKenzies list, then chances are the other 8 scouts had him in the 40ish range, much in line with the much larger group of independent scouts.
 

Golden_Jet

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Sep 21, 2005
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Not at all.

What I am saying is just because a team or two had him highly ranked due to their need does not at all mean its representative of the player himself. I prefer to look at the lists that ranks players by how good they are expected to be, not where they are drafted. Those lists had him as a late second round pick, and obviously they are right.

If, for example a rangers and a sen scout are on McKenzies list, then chances are the other 8 scouts had him in the 40ish range, much in line with the much larger group of independent scouts.
Yep and McKenzie still has the best lists.
Some of the are brutal.
 

RAFI BOMB

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May 11, 2016
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Outside of his wrist shot, I've never seen any high end skill in Boucher's game. Unless we're taking the view that things like physicality are a skill.

Part of what limits Boucher is actually a concerning lack of skill. If you watch him, he's not comfortable skating with the puck on his stick. He shows small-area puck skills when he's standing in place, but as soon as he's asked to do things with any pace it falls apart.

The Sens under Dorion/Murray either had a blind spot for this kind of thing or just didn't value it when evaluating prospects. Colin White and Curtis Lazar were first rounders who also lacked NHL-quality puck skills and hit walls in their careers' because of it.
"High end skill" might be too ambiguous of a term here as it seems to create different connotations to different people. There are aspects of his game, particularly his skating, shot, and his passing over short distances below the dots that are suggestive of a player that could produce significantly more than he does. I think these attributes are relatively high end in and of themself.

If I have the time I might try to capture the little details that I think Boucher has done well during his time in Belleville and create a video, like I have in the past, so people can see clear examples of what I am referring to and make their own judgments on it.

From a performance standpoint, I don't think Boucher's issues are primarily skill related. I think he is not as dynamic as other skill players but I think he is quite skilled in a more narrow set of attributes, and I think he is on the higher end of the skill range for those attributes.

I think Boucher's issues are a lack of deception and a bit of an issue with poise and composure. When I watch him play I think he can become single track minded. What I mean by that is that he sees what he wants to do and then gets laser focused on doing that and only that. For example, Boucher will have the puck, see an opportunity t shoot it, pick the spot where he wants to shoot it and then proceeds to shoot it as hard and fast as possible.

One problem with that approach is that there is no deception at all. If the shooter and the goalie both know that the goalie has an opening high glove, then it is going to take a damn ridiculous shot to beat a goalie there. That is part of the reason why high skill players demonstrate poise and composure to deceive the goalie through a feint, or wait for something to happen on the ice to distract the goalie or obstruct his vision.

Boucher sometimes shows pose and composure with the puck and sometimes shows some deception, but it is a weaker area of his game and it is an area he needs to improve on.

Another issue might actually be coaching. Bruce Boudreau said during the trade deadline that he thought the Sens players lacked clearly defined roles, which actually makes a lot of sense. This is likely an issue both in Ottawa and Belleville. Boucher is not as dynamic of a player, so he probably would benefit from a coach understanding his competencies and limitations and then define a role for him to play to his strengths and not spend a lot of time doing the things that he isn't going to be great at.

Boucher is at his best when he is below the dots. He shows good vision and can make crisp passes behind the net and in the corners and generally anywhere around the net. His hands tend to look a lot better when he is stationary or when relatively little skating is involved. He has a good shot, but it seems like he would score more goals consistently by being in the paint. He is a big body and strong so he can be a nuisance around the net. He should be working on screening goalies, causing havoc around the net, obstructing goalies vision with aggressive battles with d men, deflecting pucks and playing clean up duty.

There are aspects of his game that are a bit like Brady Tkachuk, One difference is that Tkachuk knew what he was strong at and focused on being the best version of that. It is why he was able o step into the NHL early and why he quickly became one of the best players in the league below the dots. Boucher needs to play to his strengths. He needs clear direction of how he can excel. He needs to build on that foundation.

Tkachuk started to expand his game after being a dominant below the dots player. Boucher probably needs to do the same. He needs a clearly defined role so he knows what to focus on.
 

BrawlFan

Registered User
Apr 17, 2009
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Pretty obvious he isn’t hurt. There’s no updates no mention.

My bet is he’s demanded a trade bc of all the hate he took. Wants a fresh start.

Sens mgmt realize this coming out ruins his value. So they just shut him down to not further destroy his value.

Too bad. I’ve been a fan of his.
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
67,082
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Pretty obvious he isn’t hurt. There’s no updates no mention.

My bet is he’s demanded a trade bc of all the hate he took. Wants a fresh start.

Sens mgmt realize this coming out ruins his value. So they just shut him down to not further destroy his value.

Too bad. I’ve been a fan of his.
They had a photo with him in a sling under a jersey... no arm in one sleeve. He is hurt
 

Ouroboros

There is no armour against Fate
Feb 3, 2008
15,602
11,352
Pretty obvious he isn’t hurt. There’s no updates no mention.

My bet is he’s demanded a trade bc of all the hate he took. Wants a fresh start.

Sens mgmt realize this coming out ruins his value. So they just shut him down to not further destroy his value.

Too bad. I’ve been a fan of his.
There's no conspiracy, his shoulder is busted again. He's in a sling.
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
29,664
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Pretty obvious he isn’t hurt. There’s no updates no mention.

My bet is he’s demanded a trade bc of all the hate he took. Wants a fresh start.

Sens mgmt realize this coming out ruins his value. So they just shut him down to not further destroy his value.

Too bad. I’ve been a fan of his.
He’s in a sling, he’s clearly hurt.
 

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